Algae Scrubber Advanced

[Crusinjimbo]

I gotta agree with Brummie based on my experience with a slanted ATS. Having tried a waterfall ATS and an Up-flow ATS previously, I can say that the slanted version produces as much if not more algae, in a very uniform mat, than the others with much easier maintenance/cleaning and noise. I went with a slanted design (12"x5" screen, 25 degree off horizontal, 27 watts LED and a RIO 600 pump) primarily because of access issues in a tight sump/cabinet. It was originally set with a 45 degree drop and moving it to 25 degrees seems to have a positive effect on growth. My experience thus far.

 

[Brummie]

Now we've got the "algae won't grow underwater" and "algae won't grow without bubbles" BS consigned to the scrap heap, perhaps we can get on with this section of the hobby without alienating members which are put off by such rubbish. Especially those who have algae happily growing away in their display tanks and are quite obviously not subjected to bubbles and are definitely underwater.

 

[salty joe]

So what you're saying B is that you are getting better growth without an agitator pump in this scrubber?

If so, then how would you say it performs on a filtration basis?

I got the same impression Brummie. Are you no longer agitating the algae?

 

[Brummie]

Algae Scrubber Advanced

I got the same impression Brummie. Are you no longer agitating the algae?

Not with a seperate pump, no. Currently just using the gentle return from the display (2 - 300 Lts/hr max). In the video, you can see the algae hardly moves but there is a little flow.

 

[the green goby]

I still get some white looking algae after cleaning, it doesn't really matter though since my algae seems to grow back fine. But I switched my light reflector back to my original one and the growth is better. The reflector I was using wasn't strong enough.

That's looking much better compared to the pics you posted in the other thread. Are you still getting the whiting issue right after cleaning?

This is why I wanted to post my screen. It's slanted, submerged, one sided and it has no bubbles.

I remember when I first made my scrubber I was trying so hard to figure out out how to get bubbles to go across my screen because of the information i found I found online Then I figured it doesn't matter since my old refugium didn't have bubbles and algae grew amazingly.

Now we've got the "algae won't grow underwater" and "algae won't grow without bubbles" BS consigned to the scrap heap, perhaps we can get on with this section of the hobby without alienating members which are put off by such rubbish. Especially those who have algae happily growing away in their display tanks and are quite obviously not subjected to bubbles and are definitely underwater.

 

[the green goby]

Looks great. How long are you running your lights?

18 on and 6 off.

 

[SantaMonica]

Yes algae grows underwater without bubbles, but the rate of growth is very slow, and thus the nutrient removal is very slow. The faster growth wins the nutrients.

You can easily show this to yourself by putting air bubbles under only part of the screen, or, dumping a waterfall down on only part of a screen.

 

[Brummie]

Algae Scrubber Advanced

Not sure about the practicality of dumping water down half a screen tbh. I've tried the grabbing algae off the screen technique again and not scraping it, this happened;

http://youtu.be/vT5n5IRu4xY

 

[thejuggernaut]

Just finished reading through the entire thread. Seems like there has been allot of good progress in the lighting front. Other than lighting, where do you guys think there is room for more research or improvement in the concept of algae scrubbers?

 

[Buzz1329]

Hi Brummie,

I've skimmed though this thread, seen the videos of the incredible algae growth your getting, but haven't found any videos/pictures/illustrations on the nuts and bolts of how your system actually works. Can you describe your system in more detail?

Thanks,

Mike

It's half a waterfall screen, as the mechanism for growth is identical, ie. fast flow, thin film and unidirectional. No matter if it's vertical or horizontal the growth habitats are the same, except the gravitational stresses and flow stresses are less in a horizontal.

This would indicate that the "updated guidelines" are false.





Was this an attempt to make waterfalls look better than horizontals?

And what's this about?



Do folks believe this? If this were the case then the surface area of the ribbons would be the "screen size". - Ludicrous.

My N is 2 and P 0.2 (not 0.02). It has been this way for the last 2 1/2 years I've been running a scrubber. However, no carbon skimmer or water changes either now.

Sorry to those I offend but I find this manipulation of the facts for personal gain offensive.

For the record, light intensity is relative to growth in a submerged horizontal so a rediculous amount of light can be used if required.

 

[SantaMonica]

I think the area for the most practical improvement is in sizes and shapes that can be used by the most people. When I designed the first waterfall scrubber in 2008, the goal was only to get it to fit in the sump, and have an easily removed screen. Now the goal is ease of installation, and no removal of screen at all.

 

[thejuggernaut]

I think the area for the most practical improvement is in sizes and shapes that can be used by the most people. When I designed the first waterfall scrubber in 2008, the goal was only to get it to fit in the sump, and have an easily removed screen. Now the goal is ease of installation, and no removal of screen at all.

Well it seems to me that the limiting factor on time between cleaning and reason for high intensity light, is light penetration to the base of the algae. Has anyone experimented with reversing the flow several times a day. Seems to me that if the algae would lay in one direction, and then in the opposite, you would get a better overall light penetration.

 

[thejuggernaut]

hi brummie,

i've skimmed though this thread, seen the videos of the incredible algae growth your getting, but haven't found any videos/pictures/illustrations on the nuts and bolts of how your system actually works. Can you describe your system in more detail?

Thanks,

mike

+1

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

My goal is effectiveness.

 

[thejuggernaut]

My goal is effectiveness.

Most definitely! I guess my question is other than lighting what aspects of the current accepted model could use improvements to make it more effective. Although I do agree that ease of use is a part of the effectiveness for me.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

From what I have found, varying the flow/lighting combination is one of the biggest factors, another one is maintaining flow throughout the growth period.

Once a {waterfall} screen is mature, you can increase the photo intensity and period in concert with flow rate and get a better tank turnover rate across the screen. So that is one big factor.

IMO the next biggest long-term factor is maintaining flow throughout that growth period. This is more specific to a waterfall scrubber. You can do things like leaving a few rows smooth at the top of the screen (where it enters the slot pipe, and a few rows down) but inevitably you will get growth in the slot/screen junction, no matter how smooth you make the slot or how smooth the screen is. So you must use light blocking. What I've found is that this allow the flow rate to maintain for longer than 2 weeks without significant loss from head pressure. This makes a huge difference after you get past the first week of growth, and in the case of my personal tank, I have so much more growth that I had to go from cleaning every 12-14 days to cleaning every 7 days, if not sooner - and that's with no other changes to the tank/system.

With horizontal dump-bucket or surge style scrubbers, I suppose you could also increase the flow rate along with the dump frequency to get more turnover, but I would imagine that this would not increase performance quite as much compared to similar changes made to a waterfall scrubber of similar capacity.

 

[Brummie]

Algae Scrubber Advanced

Hi Brummie,

I've skimmed though this thread, seen the videos of the incredible algae growth your getting, but haven't found any videos/pictures/illustrations on the nuts and bolts of how your system actually works. Can you describe your system in more detail?

Thanks,

Mike

You mean my Tank system? Probably as low maintenance as it gets - It's a 12 year old system, display 5x2x2, sump 4x1.5x1, 3 circulation pumps in display,1 return pump for the sump, 250 watt MH in display with 1 actinic tube (was 400 but nicked 150 for scrubber), play sand DSB, no waterchanges for 2 years, no skimmer, no carbon, scrape glass every 3 or 4 months, replenish cal/Alk presently by dumping 6 litres of RODI (stored with aragonite sand) into sump daily.

http://youtu.be/1c1JwjPENmQ

I can even get algae to grow on Perspex, given the right conditions

 

[Brummie]

Random question for anyone who has suffered from the "too much light", (especially blue light) bald spot screen syndrome. Do you or did you dose iodine or feed lots of algae products at the time?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Never dose iodine, have nori in the DIY food mix though. Only have a bald spot on one scrubber where I have 2 full power (700mA) blues directly across from one another.

 

[Buzz1329]

You mean my Tank system? Probably as low maintenance as it gets - It's a 12 year old system, display 5x2x2, sump 4x1.5x1, 3 circulation pumps in display,1 return pump for the sump, 250 watt MH in display with 1 actinic tube (was 400 but nicked 150 for scrubber), play sand DSB, no waterchanges for 2 years, no skimmer, no carbon, scrape glass every 3 or 4 months, replenish cal/Alk presently by dumping 6 litres of RODI (stored with aragonite sand) into sump daily.

Cool. No waterchanges, skimmer, GAC or GFO, 2-part, kalkwasser, doser, carbon dosing, ATO pump, float valves, chiller, controller, wavemakers, LEDs, etc, etc. Amazing.

And the fish and soft coral in your tank look like they're thriving. Plus no algae on rocks and sand looks clean.

So is the horizontal ATS the key to your success?

Speaking of which, I still can't picture how this works. I assume it's a plate/screen of some kind that you place in your sump under a 150 watt MH. But how do you remove it to clean it? How often do you clean it? How much algae do you remove from the screen with each cleaning? Also how far under the MH is the surface growing the algae? Is the surface on which the algae is growing flat or slanted? Is there a dedicated pump or pumps to direct flow over the scrubber?

And . . . I've just exceeded the number of questions I can ask before having to register as a pest.

Love your tank!

Mike