Algae Scrubber Advanced

[jalisco]

ATS and Skimmer is all you need. What the algae and animals exude, the skimmer removes. They compliment each other.

Would running the skimmer for only four to six hours a day do enough removal? It seams like everyone who runs a skimmer also has to dose a ton of nutrients and suplements for their sps that should from my reading already be suspended in the water column.

LOL. You're not politically correct. I like that!

Can one still be politically correct while simultaneously being honest?

 

[SantaMonica]

After you skim out the "exudate", be sure to re-dose what you took out: Vitamins, aminos, carbs, glucose, etc.

 

[jalisco]

After you skim out the "exudate", be sure to re-dose what you took out: Vitamins, aminos, carbs, glucose, etc.

So I know I have a ton of research left before I start my tank but the point you just made is something I can't overlook. There are certain laws of nature that hold true whether your an electrician, plumber or doctor. I think a protien skimmer is a home run on a FOWLR, but I just don't see it making sense with sps.

On a side note my SURF2 arrives on Thursday and I am really looking forward to it. I don't think there is a more valuable piece of equipment in a power outage. An uninterrupted power supply with a SURF2 dropped into your DT or a battery powered airpump on a SURF2 during a power outage is the closest thing to a full on automatic backup generator you can find. A SURF2 in your sump is an instant filtration system for an emergency QT OR HT.

 

[wildman926]

Would running the skimmer for only four to six hours a day do enough removal? It seams like everyone who runs a skimmer also has to dose a ton of nutrients and suplements for their sps that should from my reading already be suspended in the water column.

Run it 24x7. Keep your tank as consistent as possible.

After you skim out the "exudate", be sure to re-dose what you took out: Vitamins, aminos, carbs, glucose, etc.

That is what water changes are for.

 

[jalisco]

Run it 24x7. Keep your tank as consistent as possible.



That is what water changes are for.

I'll keep reading and I really appreciate the advice but that just abut cements it for me. My understanding is that one of the benefits of an ATS is the lack of necessity for water changes. I have a skimmer and will keep it for a while just in case but I really want to see what an ATS can do and understand what it's doing before I convolute things.
I would also like to see what a DSB in conjunction with an ATS does for an sps tank before I go to a skimmer.
There might be a hundred ways to skin a cat but I'll be damned if there isn't a million was to set up a reef tank.

 

[wildman926]

I'll keep reading and I really appreciate the advice but that just abut cements it for me. My understanding is that one of the benefits of an ATS is the lack of necessity for water changes. I have a skimmer and will keep it for a while just in case but I really want to see what an ATS can do and understand what it's doing before I convolute things.
I would also like to see what a DSB in conjunction with an ATS does for an sps tank before I go to a skimmer.
There might be a hundred ways to skin a cat but I'll be damned if there isn't a million was to set up a reef tank.

I should have been more clear. The only time a skimmer removes "good" things from your tank, is when you skim "wet". That is what water changes are for. Otherwise, skim dry if you don't want to do water changes.

There are many examples of ATS/Skimmer or ATS only tanks. Many youtube videos actually displaying them. "I" choose to run both, for what "I" deem best. They remove different items from your tank, and compliment each other.

 

[Brummie]

Algae Scrubber Advanced

I should have been more clear. The only time a skimmer removes "good" things from your tank, is when you skim "wet". That is what water changes are for. Otherwise, skim dry if you don't want to do water changes.



There are many examples of ATS/Skimmer or ATS only tanks. Many youtube videos actually displaying them. "I" choose to run both, for what "I" deem best. They remove different items from your tank, and compliment each other.

Quite a few of us found that skimmers don't work as well when there's a scrubber in the system, or at least the skimmate looks weak.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I think a protien skimmer is a home run on a FOWLR, but I just don't see it making sense with sps.

I disagree with this. Heavy softies and LPS, less need for a skimmer. SPS, evidence points to better results by using a skimmer + scrubber vs scrubber only.

An uninterrupted power supply with a SURF2 dropped into your DT or a battery powered airpump on a SURF2 during a power outage is the closest thing to a full on automatic backup generator you can find.

I don't agree with this either. During a short term outage, and by that I mean several days, an airstone on a batter backup pump in your tank to break surface tension and keep water in some level of motion would do better than a floating scrubber in an enclosure (which has a very low internal to external turnover rate). You should have enough LR in the tank to be able to handle a short term outage, a low turnover filter won't really make or break your tank in a few days. No matter what you do short of running a generator you would likely get a mini cycle. Longer term, that's a different story.

My understanding is that one of the benefits of an ATS is the lack of necessity for water changes.

For purposes of nutrient reduction, yes. Outside of that, the decision to or to not do PWCs is a topic of debate.

 

[jalisco]

Shot down on everything I thought I knew from weeks of reading. Confidence level to start my tank in the next few weeks just plummeted. In the long run that's probably a good thing.

 

[jalisco]

I don't agree with this either. During a short term outage, and by that I mean several days, an airstone on a batter backup pump in your tank to break surface tension and keep water in some level of motion would do better than a floating scrubber in an enclosure (which has a very low internal to external turnover rate). You should have enough LR in the tank to be able to handle a short term outage, a low turnover filter won't really make or break your tank in a few days. No matter what you do short of running a generator you would likely get a mini cycle.

Even if the SURF2 was already established in your sump? DagNabit, if so I should have spent that money on a nice ato.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Well it's not going to hurt anything to have it there, but think about it. Your tank normally has 10-50x turnover rate within the tank (add up return pump & power heads for total flow rate). Now take this to zero. Everything that is established based on that flow rate suddenly has zero flow. The longer the tank goes w/o power, the longer and stronger your mini-cycle will be. Band-aid filtration (of any kind, including an airstone) will do nothing to prevent this. Your purpose during a power outage, without a generator, is to keep things alive.

So an established floating scrubber can help keep the water column from building up too many nutrients, but you would still need an airstone to break surface tension and keep the water aerated, as well as move a minimal amount of water. A floating scrubber is going to do none of these things for you.

 

[jalisco]

So would my initial plan to keep hydro sponge filters in the sump for emergency qt or ht and power outages have been the better route?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

QT or non-treatment HT (isolation/recovery) then either would work fine.

For power outages, having a battery backup air pump & stone is the key. Filtration for maintaining water quality, IMO, is much lower on the totem pole, because as long as there is water motion (airstone) then BB on all surfaces will continue to run the nitrogen cycle, though maybe not as effectively. But for a short term (couple days) outage the colony will quickly bounce back once power is restored. Giving the tank a good stir every few hours helps of course.

But if you wanted to kill 2 birds with one stone, a sponge filter w/battery air pump moved to the DT during outage will do it because it pulls water though the sponge and bubbles hit the water surface.

The floating/enclosed scrubber will not perform both functions, because it does not break the surface tension of the water around it. Bubbles go up into it from underneath, and water is circulated in and out of it, through holes in the bottom (underwater). The top water of the tank would remain stagnant.

 

[SantaMonica]

There is no need to break surface tension. Unless you want more salt spray.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

We are discussing a power outage scenario.

 

[jalisco]

If a skimmer is to be used in conjunction with an ATS would you plumb from DT overflow directly to ATS, let ATS fall to sump, sump pump to skimmer and skimmer to DT?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

There's benefits to both ways. Each individual device does bit typically remove everything on one pass so order usually isn't that important, but on some cases it is. Putting a the skimmer output on the scrubber input provides the scrubber highly aerated water which can be good. Putting the scrubber first gives it first crack at the dirtiest water. For plumbing direct to overflow I usually recommend that you have a secondary water path in case something makes it down the overflow pipe

 

[Paul B]

You been reading PaulB's thread haven't you?

Like Duh, It's not like anyone else uses them so who else would he be reading?

Just read through several pages on RUGF, I would guess its very susceptible to channeling.

Dam! I wish I knew that in 1972 when I installed the thing on my still running reef. :facepalm:

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

If RC had a like button, Paul's posts would be the majority of my likes.

 

[Brummie]

Algae Scrubber Advanced

A few more hypothesis;

A) horizontal white light scrubbers = pods

B) scrape it and get rid of snails, and it'll go green.
C) snails and no scraping = calcareous stuff