Algae Scrubber Advanced

[Rafi]

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***Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the higher the kelvin rating on your lighting the better for the turf scrubbers? Please set me straight, have I been doing this backwards?:uhoh2:

its simple.with 10000 or higher kelvin you'll never see dangerous turf on your tank.mostly you can see brown Algae which is not a big deal for tank.
you may notice people who use T5 after 6 month change their lamps because the quality reduced and with bad quality you will see turfs and we exactly want a bad light!
I have yellow LED on my tank(just one spot) and i have lots of algae on that place.

take a look at my tank and my ATS :
64Gallon tank with 42 leds(3W half blue half white)

this is FPL florescent that i use for my ATS (2800 lumen is for yellow color and 2600 for white)

and here come the result:

and ATS base

And ATS with 36W yellow FPL at the top of the sump

ps. sorry for my bad writing. English is not my first language

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Rafi, your pictures aren't showing up. I can tell you that you are definitely wrong on the use of yellow or blue/white for growing algae on a scrubber with maximum efficiency. I'm not saying that you won't grow algae, because just about any light source will grow *some* algae. But the results of literally hundreds of scrubber builds working on tanks throughout the world has revealed that the *best* light spectrum for algae growth is heavy in red, with maybe some blue.

This chart explains it

The yellow spectrum is right in the middle at the lowest point. Chlorophyll A and B do not use this efficiently. You cannot rely on this color temperature for effective filtration.

If you're talking about how the lights "look" to the human eye, that's immaterial. The CFLs that are recommended for scrubbers are the "warm white" (generally, 2700-3000K specifically) which are heavy in red spectrum and produce the best growth.

Like I said, your scrubber may grow algae just fine and might keep your N and P down to manageable levels in the system that you run, but if there is a mitigation circumstance, such as a fish dying that you can't get to, or if a kid dumps a bunch of food in the tank, or something else our of the ordinary, it may not be able to handle the issue because the scrubber is not efficient or effective enough. Properly built scrubbers are capable of handling such situations and can be a huge safety net for a very expensive system.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I would be interested to hear from people who are using a format other than the standard "hang a sheet of mesh from a slotted pipe." I understand why this is the most popular approach and that it's easy to build and get results from, but I'm wondering if it's best for me in the long term.

I am most interested in configurations that:

1) Are cheap
2) Are more compact/self contained (this is my biggest complaint with the common vertical screen, by the time you've put lamps with good reflectors and splash guards on it, it's HUGE and awkward.)

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

It wont be huge and awkward for long, im working on a design i plan on starting in Jan and have a couple beta testers lined up.

 

[Nathan.Titulaer]

I get what you are saying about the led vs cfl. I figured as much but did not want to admit it to myself. My led panel is a grow light panel off Ebay so it is heavy in the red and some blues. It has a 12x12 screen for a 40B so I am hoping to experiment with different lights and designs to get the best use of space and scrubbing.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

This chart explains it

The chart makes it clear why you'd want 660nm red LEDs and makes it pretty clear that typical cool/neutral/warm white LEDs are all bad choices.

But why aren't we throwing RBs or violets on the rigs in much higher ratios, given the huge spikes around 420 and 450 nm?

 

[TheFishMan65]

And why 630 while we are at it?

TIA

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

because the hort guy I have been working with said that 630s flat out beat 660s for plant growth watt for watt due to intensity. It is not known whether this translate to algae. hence my ever-pending experiment

 

[N728NY]

This is all good stuff! I can't wait to see what you guys come up with as definite answers! Some of this is a bit over my head, but it looks like once it's all dialed in we will have a definite answer on which exact led configuration may work the best! It's too bad the led retrofit bulbs can't work, would definitely make it easy for everyone to just swap out their current cfls.

 

[Northside Reef]

For scrubbers with LED you need something that is specifically a grow lamp. All red and maybe a few blues. It will not look like any lamp that you would put in your home. For instance, this is what the light I had made looks like when shining on my blinds in our house

Does this look right?

http://ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=398

Might be a little too small I am guessing.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

That's the right LEDS, but the placement of the blues is not distributed well (all in the center does you nothing IMO) and they're 1W LEDs with lenses and 36 LEDs on a 10x10 panel. My fixture has over 100 in the same if not smaller area. So it might work, also it looks open (no housing) so probably not for use near water, no cooling, etc...

 

[Northside Reef]

Thanks, I agree it definitely looks suspect, I will probably do a DYI model and get my feet wet with these LED's.

 

[el aguila]

Anyone have a good link to some red 1W or 3W LEDs at a reasonable price?

I like the price on these but don't like the 60 degree viewing angles:
http://www.clay-boa.com/deep-red-660nm-2-pack-1-99ea/

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

link blocked

 

[el aguila]

Sorry, I didn't think about them not being a RC sponsor.

Anyway the LED group buy has some red 3W LEDs that are right at $2 ea but they have 60 degree viewing angels. I would like something that has more like a 100 degree viewing angle for around the same price.

 

[el aguila]

I found these on Northside Reefs link:
http://ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=274

Not alot of info here, I guess that they are less than .5W per LED, but if they can be mounted close to the screen, I would think that they would work.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

13.8W total for the fixture, 225 LEDs = 0.06W per LED. One of these fixture *might* be equivalent to one 18W or 23W CFL, but that's about it. Also it's 12 x 12 and that's way, way to little light for a 12x12 screen.

 

[Nathan.Titulaer]

I have a similar panel to the one listed and it needs to be at least 6-8 inches away or it just makes little dots on the screen. I was also enticed by the low price but it was no where near what I had hoped.

 

[el aguila]

Thanks for the replies from both of you.

I will probably go with the 3W reds from Rapid LED and place them about 6" from the screen unless someone can come up with a link for 1W, or something similar in price to the LEDs from Group Buy.

 

[Gorgok]

If you don't particularly care about efficiency (i would assume they aren't at least) or name brand stuff for the ATS, you can get some real cheap 3W 630nm reds here: http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14003190-10pcs+3W+High+Power+Star+LED+Light+Lamp+Bulb+(Red).html

Get 2 sets and price gets discounted too =D. Plus they have working coupons for something like 15% off. And shipping is free... I got 2 sets to replace my whites as suggested, and i'll add some more reds at the same time, because i really couldn't say no to $0.97 per LED.