papagimp
COMAS Rocks!
It is closer, I tilted the side towards us a little so you could see the bulb better, the reflector was adjusted so wraps tip to tip with the splash guard.
Algae Scrubber Basics
- Thread starter srusso
- Start date
It is closer, I tilted the side towards us a little so you could see the bulb better, the reflector was adjusted so wraps tip to tip with the splash guard.
JohnnyB in SD
New member
If it were me, most importantly I'd put it wherever is necessary to feed it from the main overflow. If I had a choice of position in the sump beyond that, I'd drain it into the fuge and have the skimmer after that. You'll probably find that the skimmer eventually won't be doing much and run it fewer hours or turn it off.
I'm guessing about the crud on sand. Depending on what nutrients are feeding it from where I would expect the ATS to eventually starve it out. If the sand is saturated with cr@p (mine was & I removed it) it could take a while. The more experienced guys like FRT & srusso will likely have some recommendations about lighting to help the ATS get started & red crud to recede. The red crud is probably keeping your N&P at zero.
Last edited:
el aguila
New member
I am getting ready to build a scrubber this weekend using a 13" x 21" screen. I have not read the entire thread so this may have been brought up earlier.
I have 2 of the LED bulbs listed below and am considering trying them out on one section of the screen just to experiment. They are like a spotlight, so they would probably need to be positioned further from the screen because of the optix.
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=3199734.29437&product=LED-LIGHTS
Scroll down to LED Grow light - also a good resource for odd ball PVC fittings.
I have 2 of the LED bulbs listed below and am considering trying them out on one section of the screen just to experiment. They are like a spotlight, so they would probably need to be positioned further from the screen because of the optix.
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=3199734.29437&product=LED-LIGHTS
Scroll down to LED Grow light - also a good resource for odd ball PVC fittings.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Might work, but I can't find any info on the LEDs used, their wattage (total and individual), manufacturer, number of LEDs, etc. Just a spectrograph showing it's tuned to Chlorophyll B (455 & 630). For a 273 sq in screen, you would need quite a few of these. There is a lot of BS out there in the LED market right now. You have to be careful.
nmcgrawj
New member
Why are ww not doing much but we run ww cfl's?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
That's a good question.
CFLs start in the UV and the have phosphors on the tube that shift the light into the visible range. So they generally cover a wide spectrum, and you can take 2 different CFLs with different phosphor combinations and achieve the same "looking" light that has been marketed to be "warm white".
LEDs are based on chips that emit the exact frequency desired, and sometimes there are phosphors that shift the light (white is a blue LED base with a phosphor), but they are much more focused on a specific bandwidth. The WW LED is made to 'replace' the WW CFL. It "looks" the same to us but is actually very different.
So CFLs waste a lot of bandwidth by spreading it out across a wide spectrum (which covers algae chlorphyll) and LEDs focus on a narrow bandwidth (which most misses chlorphyll).
Hope that makes sense.
CFLs start in the UV and the have phosphors on the tube that shift the light into the visible range. So they generally cover a wide spectrum, and you can take 2 different CFLs with different phosphor combinations and achieve the same "looking" light that has been marketed to be "warm white".
LEDs are based on chips that emit the exact frequency desired, and sometimes there are phosphors that shift the light (white is a blue LED base with a phosphor), but they are much more focused on a specific bandwidth. The WW LED is made to 'replace' the WW CFL. It "looks" the same to us but is actually very different.
So CFLs waste a lot of bandwidth by spreading it out across a wide spectrum (which covers algae chlorphyll) and LEDs focus on a narrow bandwidth (which most misses chlorphyll).
Hope that makes sense.
XSiVE
New member
I just wanted to say thanks to all for this thread, I've read pretty much every post over the past 2 weeks.
I had a very poor attempt at a scrubber running for awhile in my system over the past 10 months or so (built it on a whim and didnt really care about it) and I think it was doing more harm than good. I changed the configuration to get its output from my frag tank's overflow, cut a new, better slot tube, upgraded all the lighting, and after a week and a half it's already growing much better than the old one.
So again, thanks everyone for posting your setups, results, etc.. I'll probably get mine in here soon too.
I had a very poor attempt at a scrubber running for awhile in my system over the past 10 months or so (built it on a whim and didnt really care about it) and I think it was doing more harm than good. I changed the configuration to get its output from my frag tank's overflow, cut a new, better slot tube, upgraded all the lighting, and after a week and a half it's already growing much better than the old one.
So again, thanks everyone for posting your setups, results, etc.. I'll probably get mine in here soon too.
nmcgrawj
New member
Piper27
I love bengals
I was wondering what you guys thought about the red turf algae. I have some in my tank and have been controling it with mexican turbo snails, but they knock things over and are harder to keep.
What about the algae trough type thing everyone used to run? Wasn't that something that used red turf algae? I was wondering if using this would give the algae a place to live and maybe it would stay out of the display.
Or has anyone had the red turf algae in their display and had it go away from using the screen method?
What about the algae trough type thing everyone used to run? Wasn't that something that used red turf algae? I was wondering if using this would give the algae a place to live and maybe it would stay out of the display.
Or has anyone had the red turf algae in their display and had it go away from using the screen method?
Barfly
Custom User Title
Wow, water changes are not needed? What about all the other things found in salt water besides ca, alk, and mg?
What studies can you cite that shows that an ATS replaces all the other elements found in sea water?
Oddly enough, recently a member of our local club who has contributed to this thread and is a BIG ATS advocate had his tank crash. He was employing all the ridiculous claims made by the ATS people. No water changes, over feeding, and no skimmer just to name a few. Being in the hobby for as long as I have, I knew it was only a matter of time before his tank crashed. When I pointed this out, I was told I did not know what I was talking about. I guess I was right after all.
Simply stated, an ATS, when used correctly, and in conjunction with other forms of filtration can work well. Relying on an ATS to do all the filtration will not work in the long run. Most of the misinformation about ATS's was spread by a very ambitious hobbyist trying to make a buck and not based on any real unbiased studies. Claims that water changes are not needed and that you can scrap your skimmer are the type of unsubstantiated claims that causes this thread to lose credibility with most experienced hobbyist and chemists.
I posted this because it is only fair that new readers see both sides of the ATS debate, rather than blindly believe a lot of the garbage and bogus information that is found throughout this thread. And to be clear, my position is that ATS's have a place in the hobby, much like a traditional fuge does. It is certainly not a replacement for conducting regular water changes or the need for a good skimmer.
Just my 0.02
JohnnyB in SD
New member
His tank crashed because?
I agree and would not employ an ATS as the only means to maintain water quality in a reef or marine tank. Although it can help to reduce the need for all those things you mention, it would be wise to reduce them gradually & with caution. I think it is risky to rely on any one system or method for almost any & everything in this hobby. Redundancy & back up, including filtration.
I agree and would not employ an ATS as the only means to maintain water quality in a reef or marine tank. Although it can help to reduce the need for all those things you mention, it would be wise to reduce them gradually & with caution. I think it is risky to rely on any one system or method for almost any & everything in this hobby. Redundancy & back up, including filtration.
JohnnyB in SD
New member
If you are referring to who I think you are when you say "ambitious hobbyist trying to make a buck" I must disagree and speak out.
I was just reading through some old posts a couple nights ago and couldn't believe the unfounded venom being spewed at him. People were discounting many of his ideas which we know today to be the basis of a successful ATS.
But the reason I disagree is I don't think he was or is in it for the money. Sure, he may have been overzealous in his promotion of ATS, but I don't see money being the motivator. I think he was just excited about the possibilities & tried to share them. He has widely publicized how to make an ATS, and even gives the plans out freely for the one he does sell. Sure, he'll sell a nice unit for $600 or some odd dollars if you aren't a DIYer. But after having fabricated one myself I don't see how he could be making that much money. It appears to me that he sells them more as a service to those who can't read plans & use tools.
I think he should be recognized as the major contributor to the current state of ATS technology for home aquariums that he is, and not ridiculed as a money grabber.
I was just reading through some old posts a couple nights ago and couldn't believe the unfounded venom being spewed at him. People were discounting many of his ideas which we know today to be the basis of a successful ATS.
But the reason I disagree is I don't think he was or is in it for the money. Sure, he may have been overzealous in his promotion of ATS, but I don't see money being the motivator. I think he was just excited about the possibilities & tried to share them. He has widely publicized how to make an ATS, and even gives the plans out freely for the one he does sell. Sure, he'll sell a nice unit for $600 or some odd dollars if you aren't a DIYer. But after having fabricated one myself I don't see how he could be making that much money. It appears to me that he sells them more as a service to those who can't read plans & use tools.
I think he should be recognized as the major contributor to the current state of ATS technology for home aquariums that he is, and not ridiculed as a money grabber.
Barfly
Custom User Title
I never said it crashed because he "utilized" an ATS. In my opinion, it crashed because he no longer did water changes and took his skimmer offline. HTH
Barfly
Custom User Title
What you did not get to see while reading all the posts are the pm's that he sent to some of the more respected members of this forum concerning how any ATS detractors should be handled.
I certainly do not want to turn this into a debate. I'm simply asked what scientific evidence does srusso have that water changes are not needed when using a scrubber. Water changes are most certainly needed, regardless of the misinformation being posted by srusso.
SPotter
Active member
Lets not ruin this thread. I think its safe to say that the statements and advice given on here are opinions that have been formed based on past experiences. While I know that there several members on here that have been in the hobby a long time, some are chemists, some are marine biologists but every one is entitled to an opinion. Opinions should be constructive. Threes no need to accuse someone of spreading misinformation or say that this thread contains garbage information. If you disagree just simply say that and state why you disagree. As adults we have the ability to process iinformation and make informed decisions. This is all just my opinion.
Steve
Steve
SPotter
Active member
No one said they don't work. The comment was that they should not be used as the only form of filtration.
Steve
dang it.
i've been running an ATS only filtration system for 8 months, how much longer before mine crashes?
i overfeed, 2 cubes per day on a 40b with 2- 3inch fishes, waterchange 10% every 2 weeks using natural seawater i get from the beach, i recently dose kalk. you cant see any algae on my tank, my parameters are perfect except for ph which is 7.9 due to high carbon dioxide since i cant open windows, it's too hot outside.
ammonia = 0
trites= 0
trates = 0
ph= 7.9
calcium = 460
dkh = 10
magnesium = 1350
using API
please, any scientific links that i can read/ learn about ATS filtration only causing crashes is greatly appreciated.
franklypre
New member
Just wanted to tag along here, setup my ATS a few days ago. I have a 58 show and a 40b that share a sump(20 gal brute), and I figured it was the perfect chance to see what I thought about them. So far it is growing nicely, though mostly brown algae. I have it lit on both sides with CFL swirly bulbs in the el cheapo HD fixtures. I run a Euroreef skimmer and have noticed it isn't pulling as much as pre-ATS already. I don't have any real algae issues other than the ocasional cyano but I thought it was an interesting experiment. I don't forsee the removal of my skimmer but only time will tell.
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