Thatgrimguy
New member
You lost all credibility with me with that stretch. You presented that in a very different manner.
Algae Scrubber Basics
- Thread starter srusso
- Start date
You lost all credibility with me with that stretch. You presented that in a very different manner.
Barfly
Custom User Title
With all due respect, assuming they have a 35,000 gallon system, I would think they are removing more than 3.5 gallons / day.
Barfly
Custom User Title
? :headwally:
srusso
Active member
Here Is my screen at 3rd cleaning:
Some green growth at the bottom outside the reflectors. Small spots here and there throughout.
Yeah, I'd say that screen needs more flow or food.
Ya. I'll measure the flow again. But Im guessing its a food issue. I only have a couple small spots of very slow growing hair algae in my tank. Barely even any growing in my sump in the 4 weeks since I redid it for the scrubber. I'm going to measure flow again if i can. Then watch it for the next week. Ive been uping food over the last week.
JohnnyB in SD
New member
i admire you barfly,
even though this thread was for the pro ATS guys, you are here telling them the hazards of it.
you are like a cat in a dog convention...
it's nice to have a different perspective.
Yes, knowing the hazards is a good thing. Beating a dead horse is not.
My boy wants to know why more people don't like Cowries? he's got a very nice Tiger and it's his favorite thing in the tank.
srusso
Active member
And from your posted link, here is the quote that most supports my statement of trace elements being better exported via the food that living creature eats.
Page 9 of your link states.
"Trace elements in reef aquaria - supplementation
In the natural environment corals, especially scleractinian corals, meet their demand for energy and nutrients from various sources with a substantial portion that is met by the capture of prey."
Barfly, please read your posted research. I feel a bit like thanking you though... You have posted a very good link that further supports my statements and feeling on water changes, in respect to running a scrubber only system. I don't really expect you to understand how greatly different a scrubber only system is from one with any other form of filtration. I have come to realize this as natural vs sterile systems. Planning a future post on this subject... Again thank you
This is my last statement on the matter
Last edited:
Piper27
I love bengals
Okay now that things are back can anyone answer my question?
srusso
Active member
In short, yes. The scrubber will out compete the turf in the tank.
Piper27
I love bengals
But which one would be better at doing so? I think the screen method is proven better but which is better at keeping the red turf algae out of the display? I know the red turf algae is a low nutrient high flow algae so is growing hair algae on a screen going to do anything or is the algae trough the best way to go?
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Pretty much all types of nuisance algae can be out-competed by installing an algae scrubber, as it gives the algae a more preferential place to grow, thus your nutrient sink is removed from the display.
To answer your question, red turf algae is generally what Dr. Adey was growing 25 years back with the horizontal dump style scrubber, which is what is sold by and used by Inland Aquatics. Green hair algae grows faster and soaks up nutrients better, so that's what is preferred on the vertical screen. However, over time the red turf will start to grow in as well. I have patches of red turf on mine and I scrub it like nuts, and sometimes it just won't come off.
Adding a scrubber will eventually out-compete the red turf in your display, but it may take some time, cause that stuff it tough. If your turbos knock it down, then it may have a harder time coming back, so that would help.
To answer your question, red turf algae is generally what Dr. Adey was growing 25 years back with the horizontal dump style scrubber, which is what is sold by and used by Inland Aquatics. Green hair algae grows faster and soaks up nutrients better, so that's what is preferred on the vertical screen. However, over time the red turf will start to grow in as well. I have patches of red turf on mine and I scrub it like nuts, and sometimes it just won't come off.
Adding a scrubber will eventually out-compete the red turf in your display, but it may take some time, cause that stuff it tough. If your turbos knock it down, then it may have a harder time coming back, so that would help.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
I'm glad srusso is here to answer questions this weekend. With MACNA going on I'm about dead tired.
Thatgrimguy
New member
Pretty much! It's a hell of a lot easier to maintain, build, and it works better! Not to mention the support of threads like this when it comes time to get it working.
Barfly
Custom User Title
The links I posted contain both pros and cons of using algae as filtration. Nothing I posted made any claims that water changes were not needed. Now you are taking things in the articles out of context to try and make your point. LOL, our little tanks can't compare with the natural environment of corals and reefs.
Bottom line, skimmers, water changes, and carbon are not only recommended to be used with an ATS, imo, they are mandatory. Especially when keeping sps.
Srusso, remember, you were the one that made the claim that water changes were not needed. I simply asked you to explain why you believed that to be the case. You still have not answered that question. I'm specifically curious how you deal with the known irritants produced by algae that have been proven to have negative effects on most sps and some lps corals. Also, how do you deal with the toxins released by various corals in a mixed reef?
As far as the trace elements being replaced by the algae scrubber, well, all you did was take a quote from the article that states that corals eat food. We all know corals eat. You said earlier that you replaced your trace elements through your food. When I asked how you were doing this you posted an article about whether trace elements were really all that important. That really did not answer the question, but I would certainly agree that the value of certain trace elements is debatable. I'm still waiting for the name of this food that is replacing your trace elements.
While I'm asking questions, If your system has 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates, how is the algae growing like crazy?
And I'll say it yet again. I am not against algae scrubbers, but I certainly can't support the unsubstantiated claims being made by some people in this thread.
Don't worry about answering my questions. I already know the answers. I would however suggest that anyone who is interested in using an ATS seek the answers to those questions themselves outside of this thread. Also, see if you can find any long term successful sps tanks that are using ONLY an ATS (No skimmer and no carbon) as filtration.
All I'm saying is that there IS information and studies out there that contradict what you are saying. I see you are very good at taking small snippets from some of the articles and try and use them to your favor while at the same time taking a dig at me for posting the article.
Here is the conclusion to one of the articles...
The weight of evidence at this point seems to be against the use
of algal scrubbing in reef tanks, and the method should be
considered to be highly experimental. Beginners particularly are
advised to avoid this technique until they have considerably more
experience with reefkeeping. The advanced aquarist may well wish
to experiment with this interesting and controversial method, but
it would be unwise to risk the lives of an entire reef tank full
of coral.
I posted the links so people could read the WHOLE article and draw their own conclusions. Many which are in direct conflict to your claims.
What people need to know is that there is another side to the story that some in this thread don't seem to want you to know.
redneckgearhead
Active member
Does it really bother you that we use ATS? Do you buzz through every thread on every forum looking for things you disagree with? If srusso says that "water changes are not needed" why does that bother you so? I hope that the people reading this thread are doing their own research and forming their own opinion. I would highly recommend everyone do that with ALL pieces of advice. Please Please take this debate elsewhere! This thread is for building an effective ATS!!!! Please, start your own thread and debate ATS/water changes to your hearts content.
Barfly
Custom User Title
Nope, not at all. What I do have a problem with are people making exaggerated and untrue claims. Right down to stating that Inland Aquatics only replaces 0.01% of their water daily. Simple logic would dictate that they send out quite a bit more than 3.5 gallons of water with each days sales. Even sadder is that one poster believed that figure to be true and then posted that I had lost all credibility with him. LOL
BTW, this thread is a STICKY in the Advanced Section, not the DIY section. I was under the impression that the thread was to discuss the basics of using an ATS, not limited to building one.
If you bothered to read any of the links I posted you would see that both the pros and cons of ATS usage was discussed, as well as, ways to combat the cons.
I tried, but I'm outta here. Talk about killing the messenger. If you guys want to believe in a magic ATS, then so be it. I'll leave you with another excerpt from one of the articles...
As compelling as some find the above arguments in theory, there
seem to be serious problems with algal scrubbing in practice.
Many attempts by public aquaria at implementing reef tanks using
only algal scrubbing have been failures. In particular, it seems
difficult to find successful long term success with Scleractinia
(stony corals) in such tanks, and those success stories which can
be found are quite difficult to verify and often contradicted by
others.
Various public and private aquaria have used algae scrubber filters on their reef aquaria, with disastrous results. The microcosm at the Smithsonain Institution has yet to keep scleractinia alive for more than a year. While Dr. Adey has stated how well corals grow in this system, those viewing the system have failed to find these corals. In an interview with Jill Johnson, one of the techs responsible for the Smithsonian tank, she stated
to Frank M. Greco that frequent collecting trips were needed to keep the system stocked with live scleractinia.
Have fun with your thread.:beer:
srusso
Active member
please tell me which one of the two links you have provided says this? I am sure you are not telling bold faced lies now... Are you? please tell me which on of these links contains that text about algae scrubbers. I don't see it and I have read both your links completely.
To all others...
I am sorry Barfly, yet again is attempting to cloud the thread with his false information. This is not the first time, about a few months ago this user began flaming me and Floyd on this same thread.
I stand by my statement, no I don't go around telling people to stop doing WC. If asked, I will tell you my feeling on it... You take that for what you want.
Barfly
Custom User Title
LOL, so now I'm telling lies... What false information? And I am not flaming you now and NEVER have, just offering an opposing viewpoint that is actually backed up by years of studies. You on the other hand are taking jabs at me throughout. The funny part is that if you just would have answered my original questions, we would not be having this discussion. The last thing I want is for the thread to be closed, regardless of what srusso would have anyone believe. Simply don't respond to me and I'm gone.
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