Algae Scrubber Basics
- Thread starter srusso
- Start date
JohnnyB in SD
New member
That's a good idea, thanks for sharing. I will try something like that for the koi pond that I'm going to build in my next lifetime.
My 20gl QT is in front of a south facing window, I use no artificial lights. Looks like travis32 description of his display - essentially an AST:algae scrubber tank. Who cares, it's a QT. Keeps me from having to do constant water changes.
My 20gl QT is in front of a south facing window, I use no artificial lights. Looks like travis32 description of his display - essentially an AST:algae scrubber tank. Who cares, it's a QT. Keeps me from having to do constant water changes.
Ok sorry if this has been asked before I really didn't want to go through 144 pages of reading on my phone lol ok I'm brand new to the salt water aquarium I don't have mine up and running yet but have some questions
1)if I want pods which one of the reasons I want sw Is for a mandarin in the end not right away I would need to remove my bio balls and my blue filter media the sump goes to? What about the sponge in my overflow box? Isn't this bad for the pumps? I would think it would cause gunk to build up in the pump and break it. Second would the pods die as they go through the pump?
1)if I want pods which one of the reasons I want sw Is for a mandarin in the end not right away I would need to remove my bio balls and my blue filter media the sump goes to? What about the sponge in my overflow box? Isn't this bad for the pumps? I would think it would cause gunk to build up in the pump and break it. Second would the pods die as they go through the pump?
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
One thing i havent been able to find is any talk about how much water turnover you should have with these scrubbers.
If you could make your screen long enough, you could do a vertical scrubber that's only 1" wide pumping 35gph. I know that would be stupid to do but is there any info on that?
If you could make your screen long enough, you could do a vertical scrubber that's only 1" wide pumping 35gph. I know that would be stupid to do but is there any info on that?
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
and with the new sizing method, which sounds more reasonable, which is what i have always based my screens off of. And you guys told me this whole time i was wrong because mys screen was "too small" for my 300g tank. But that was the "standard" or "rule of thumb" at the time that everyone was following.
My screen is a 15x12 WxH, which if I'm understanding this, is good for 15 cubes of food a day? on my 300gal tank. And i have 100w CFL's x2 on each side, so thats .9w per sq" which means I'm above the .5w/sq" for a double sided screen, which again i was told that i didnt have enough wattage.
am i right?
My screen is a 15x12 WxH, which if I'm understanding this, is good for 15 cubes of food a day? on my 300gal tank. And i have 100w CFL's x2 on each side, so thats .9w per sq" which means I'm above the .5w/sq" for a double sided screen, which again i was told that i didnt have enough wattage.
am i right?
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
You don't *have* to remove all the other stuff you mention. But it will catch baby copepods (microscopic) and especially the larger ones. If you have enough LR, you will have a sustainable population of pods for a mandarin coming off the scrubber, pretty much no matter what.
Removing the pads will leave the food in the system longer, and yes your pumps will get gunked up and you will need to clean them every 6 month minimum, preferrably every 3 months. I clean power heads more often than that.
It is not very well known if pods die from going through a pump. Some probably do, the baby copepods might not though.
Turnover rate in the tank is what anyone with corals cares about. For softies, 10x/hr, LPS/Softies 20x/hr, LPS/SPS 30x/hr, heavy SPS over 30x/hr. This is usually acheived via CLS or powerheads for higher flow tanks.
Turnover rate on the scrubber can be completely independent of that. But ideally, the highest overall flow rate you can achieve through the scrubber is best.
BSOD, you were just ahead of the curve. It's examples of scrubbers on very large tanks such as yours that I think made it a little clearer that you can size based on feeding.
Yes 15x12 is good for 15 cubes a day.
On the lighting, I am a little confused. You are using two 100W CFLs on EACH side? Do they even make 100W CFLs? Are you talking 100W incandescent equivalent, or 100W actual CFL?
100W incandescent = 23W CFL in that case you are under lit.
100W actual CFL, your screen is 12x15=180 so you need a total of 180W of lighting split between each side, in this case you would have 400W of lighting and are double-lit. Which is still good, because you can now cut your photoperiod in half and use those lamps 2x as long following those guidelines.
The W/Sq in rule is based on dimensional area, not surface area. 10x10 needs 100W total, 50W minimum, and 200W for new intense/half-period.
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
I wasnt sure if they were basing the wattage off of CFl eq or actual (oh duh, it said actual.... nm then lol, but yeah that was 100w eq) But yeah, that means my screen was really over larged and i could 1/3 that screen size as i havent ever fed over 5 cubes in a day, though a little larger wouldnt hurt.
Thats good to know though because i was really getting worried about screens that i was about to design for some 400+ gallon systems soon if i were to collow the screen sizing of the old method.
Thanks for clearing that up, guess i'll go cut up some of mys creen and make the system smaller.
Thats good to know though because i was really getting worried about screens that i was about to design for some 400+ gallon systems soon if i were to collow the screen sizing of the old method.
Thanks for clearing that up, guess i'll go cut up some of mys creen and make the system smaller.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Yep, so if you have the 23W ones (I think those are 100W eq) then you have 92W on 180 and you're at minimum light. As long as your system is all good, you're all good. But You will probably get heavier green growth if you cut the screen in half with the same lighting, or in 1/3 like you said but that could be pushing it, so I'd err on the side of caution and go 1/2 for now. Also consider upping the CFLs to 42W each so you'll have 168W on 90 sq in and you're close to the double wattage rule then.
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
thats what i think I'll do, 1/2 it, or take it down to that in stages and get the higher powered lights since im skimmin the bottom.
And i was just doing some figuring, 35gph, over the 4" wide screen would be 3360 gallons a day turnover, which seems plenty, so thats no longer a concern of mine.
And i was just doing some figuring, 35gph, over the 4" wide screen would be 3360 gallons a day turnover, which seems plenty, so thats no longer a concern of mine.
Uped my 23 watt CFLs to a 32 watt. I am getting much lighter green growth and not the dark green and brown I was getting. Now that I think my scrubber is getting stronger how much of a wait do I have before i can feed like mad and my HA melts away?
Also anyone tried a fluidized sand bed with the scrubber. I think my buddy and i are going to try it. I haven't tested his water yet but my guess is high nitrates and PO4.(algae everywhere in tank not ha either some weird dark stuff. I think slime.) I was hoping if I can get the nitrates down in the FSB then the po4 would be absorbed by his new scrubber.
Thoughts?
Also anyone tried a fluidized sand bed with the scrubber. I think my buddy and i are going to try it. I haven't tested his water yet but my guess is high nitrates and PO4.(algae everywhere in tank not ha either some weird dark stuff. I think slime.) I was hoping if I can get the nitrates down in the FSB then the po4 would be absorbed by his new scrubber.
Thoughts?
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
The answer to that question is too dependent on the specifics of your system. The fact that you started getting greener growth is a good sign. Don't change anything else at this point, just change one thing at a time.
As far as the FSB goes, those are great for massive bacterial filtration, and it can't hurt the scrubber because they work on slightly different, although complimentary, principles. The system will be a little less reliant on bacteria to remove ammonia and nitrite as the scrubber takes care of these quickly. The FSB won't remove nitrates because only anaerobic bacteria will do this, and only on an established system with either a DSB or a lot of very old and porous live rock that has not been removed from the water. Anaerobic bacteria need an area with extremely low flow as to deplete the area of oxygen. Scrubber will remove phosphates until the nitrates are zero, and vice versa.
As far as the FSB goes, those are great for massive bacterial filtration, and it can't hurt the scrubber because they work on slightly different, although complimentary, principles. The system will be a little less reliant on bacteria to remove ammonia and nitrite as the scrubber takes care of these quickly. The FSB won't remove nitrates because only anaerobic bacteria will do this, and only on an established system with either a DSB or a lot of very old and porous live rock that has not been removed from the water. Anaerobic bacteria need an area with extremely low flow as to deplete the area of oxygen. Scrubber will remove phosphates until the nitrates are zero, and vice versa.
el aguila
New member
Sounds like some good advice. I made my scrubber just before some of the new info came out on feeding/screen size. I have an 11 x 21 and am just growing balck algae, but the DT is starting to sport a crop of algae.
I'm going to rearrange my lights to add one more light per side (presently 5 per side) and pack them in closer together and cut down the size of my existing screen.
I'm going to rearrange my lights to add one more light per side (presently 5 per side) and pack them in closer together and cut down the size of my existing screen.
srusso
Active member
With a screen that size I assume you are using T5's right?
el aguila
New member
No CFLs
srusso
Active member
It hasn't yet been made official but in IMHO, if you need more then 4 total CFLs to light your system your better off going with T5's. But not just T5's... that includes good reflectors, and ballasts.
To be honest, now knowing what I know... CFLs may be better used in small builds only. Max 50 - 75 gallon tanks...
srusso
Active member
On a side note, I have reason to believe I may have discovered a new "rule".
Scrubber PAR should be equal or greater than that of your display lighting.
At least this is the case for me... allow me to explain...
Some of you may or may not know my tank has become infested with bryopsis... Its bad... like a... really bad.
About 4 months ago I purchased all new lighting. Went with top of the line metal halide equipment. The change in PAR was from a crappy (ebay) 250 PAR at the water surface to now 1500 PAR... (anyone see the problem, my lighting is NOW like 4 feet from the top of the tank...)
now my scrubber didn't get an upgrade... it is still using the crap drop lights and 23w CFLs. AND if you have been keeping up with the reading the PAR reading from my scrubber are about 300 - 400...
With the scrubber being on for 18 hours a day and my tank lighting about 12 -10 hours, (I like to see my tank on early during weekends) the tank was receiving a TON more PAR then my scrubber.
So I believe I flipped the algae filtering from a sump scrubber to an entire system turned into a scrubber. Needs less to say the output of the scrubber declined over the four months, as the bryopsis did its thing and took over everything. I felt I had failed and a weed had won the battle.
Equipped with a new outlook, I will attempt to fix my own ongoing experiment of a reef tank.
Ps... yes I tried the kent magnesium thing... I am going to try and get the balance of power corrected, now that I may have found my issue. :headwallblue:
I think the main take away here is, scrubbers need lots of quality light.
Scrubber PAR should be equal or greater than that of your display lighting.
At least this is the case for me... allow me to explain...
Some of you may or may not know my tank has become infested with bryopsis... Its bad... like a... really bad.
About 4 months ago I purchased all new lighting. Went with top of the line metal halide equipment. The change in PAR was from a crappy (ebay) 250 PAR at the water surface to now 1500 PAR... (anyone see the problem, my lighting is NOW like 4 feet from the top of the tank...)
now my scrubber didn't get an upgrade... it is still using the crap drop lights and 23w CFLs. AND if you have been keeping up with the reading the PAR reading from my scrubber are about 300 - 400...
With the scrubber being on for 18 hours a day and my tank lighting about 12 -10 hours, (I like to see my tank on early during weekends) the tank was receiving a TON more PAR then my scrubber.
So I believe I flipped the algae filtering from a sump scrubber to an entire system turned into a scrubber. Needs less to say the output of the scrubber declined over the four months, as the bryopsis did its thing and took over everything. I felt I had failed and a weed had won the battle.
Equipped with a new outlook, I will attempt to fix my own ongoing experiment of a reef tank.
Ps... yes I tried the kent magnesium thing... I am going to try and get the balance of power corrected, now that I may have found my issue. :headwallblue:
I think the main take away here is, scrubbers need lots of quality light.
Last edited:
srusso
Active member
Sounds like my problem, that I let go for waaayyy too long, in the name of research... At least it makes me feel better if I say that.
In the process bleached and mostly killed a small blue acro colony I had going. All the corals seemed to love the light at first... They colored up nicely, but the bryopsis itself I am sure is a result of never having a QT tank or dip treating coral.
parrotchute
New member
Hi Guys!
My scrubber has been up for 2 weeks now and is finally getting a smattering of algae growing on it. When should I clean it - I know it's typically 7 days, but it looked like it just had dinos on it until recently. I'm a little nervous about wiping it down to the point where it's "restarting". It's a new tank, so I know the ammonia consuming bacteria is still growing in order to make some nitrates for the algae to consume, as well as the tank increasing it's nutrient "output" to the scrubber. Should I still be cleaning it every week and how "clean" should I get it?
2nd question -
Some people split their screen vertically in half and clean each half on different days of the week to prevent spiking. Could the same be done for cleaning one SIDE on a different day of the week? Or is this for some reason counterproductive?
My scrubber has been up for 2 weeks now and is finally getting a smattering of algae growing on it. When should I clean it - I know it's typically 7 days, but it looked like it just had dinos on it until recently. I'm a little nervous about wiping it down to the point where it's "restarting". It's a new tank, so I know the ammonia consuming bacteria is still growing in order to make some nitrates for the algae to consume, as well as the tank increasing it's nutrient "output" to the scrubber. Should I still be cleaning it every week and how "clean" should I get it?
2nd question -
Some people split their screen vertically in half and clean each half on different days of the week to prevent spiking. Could the same be done for cleaning one SIDE on a different day of the week? Or is this for some reason counterproductive?
JohnnyB in SD
New member
Hi parrotchute,
If it were me I would clean it every 7-10 days. I scrape it off with a plastic putty knife as best I can without getting crazy and that's it. I don't usually rinse it, or try to get it anywhere close to virgin clean again.
I think it's too early to consider splitting your screen cleaning at this point, the screen isn't even established.
You're using those eShine LEDs? They may be a variable from the known results using CFL's & T5's which could make your situation unusual to diagnose. I would look for FRT to weigh in here.
If it were me I would clean it every 7-10 days. I scrape it off with a plastic putty knife as best I can without getting crazy and that's it. I don't usually rinse it, or try to get it anywhere close to virgin clean again.
I think it's too early to consider splitting your screen cleaning at this point, the screen isn't even established.
You're using those eShine LEDs? They may be a variable from the known results using CFL's & T5's which could make your situation unusual to diagnose. I would look for FRT to weigh in here.
