just curious if anybody has thought to incorporate an oceans motions 2 or 4 way into multiple scrubbers for people with really large tanks or breader systems to cut down on the size pump needed for water flow. The idea popped into my head when I was looking at my OM4way. I guess if you had 4 santa monica style ATS's you could hook them up with an OM 4 way and cut your flow requirement, for 4 santa monicas, in half or even a quarter depending on which drum version one would have on the OM. This idea would cycle water on and off, for a short period of time to the algea. Floyd or srusso care to comment on whether this could be a good idea for larger systems, or anybody else.
Algae Scrubber Basics
- Thread starter srusso
- Start date
also has anybody figured out a way to make their scrubbers silent. I really want to employ a t5 style ATS on my 75 gallon, ie like a santa monica scrubber, but im afraid that it will be loud. I am considering building a box similar to the santa monica and mounting it above the tank to minimize equipement, but im afraid of the noise. Ideally this is the preferred method for me. My tank will be 4' from my bed in the master bedroom, and the wife will not be happy if its loud. If a top mounted scrubber is not going to work then holes need to be drilled and a custom overflow with a beananimal style silent overflow to a sump will be installed. And a silent or near silent scrubber can be installed in the sump. I could tolerate a little more noise because the cabinet could potentially muffle the sound. But if i cant silence the scrubber than this route is not for me and I need to start looking at quality skimmers and denitrators. I think this is an interesting concept and would like to try this method on my 75 with the expectation of using this method on my future 400. So I guess my question is has anybody succesfully built a santa monica style ATS mounted above the tank that is silent? Are the santa monica ATS's silent? I just cant justify buying a peice of equipement like the santa monica when i believe i can build it for much less. Plus its fun for me to build things. Any comments are welcome. And I apologize for any and all spelling and grammatical errors ahead of time.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Oscillating the flow between 2 scrubbers is really not any more effective than running all the flow on one. Filtering only happens when water is flowing across the algae screen so you're just wasting space and doubling your build cost by splitting it up. It does add a redundancy factor and perhaps allows you to clean half as often, but that's about it. Also if you go by the new feeding sizing guidelines, larger scrubbers really aren't necessary as very few people really feed that much. My scrubber can handle 10-12 cubes/day and I never come close to that.
As for the noise, the SM style with a bottom drain, from what I've seen (youtube vids) and experienced (with mine), is noisy with the lid off. When you have enough flow, the drain tends to gurgle quite loudly. If you made the drain rather large, and used a bulkhead with a slope on the intake instead of a sharp 90 (like a Schedule-80 from BRS) then you might be able to cut the noise way back, but this is at the cost of increasing the width of the inner box and thus sacrificing some 3D growth potential.
I currenlty run one on top of the tank and got mostly around the noise issue by removing the bulkhead (mine wasn't really a bulkhead) and rigging up a system to break the fall of the water into the top of the tank. It's not perfect but it's temporary (if you call 6 months temporary) and keeps it relatively quiet, it varies throughout the weekly growth cycle, but I wouldn't want it in my bedroom. I think the pump noise is louder that the scrubber most of the time (and it's not a very quiet pump, an old Mag 5).
I came up with another way to do it when the inhabitants go back to their original home, and that is a bean system with a pump dedicated to the scrubber. The box has just holes in the bottom (no bulkheads) which then drains into a piping system with an air break between the two to prevent the gurgle, then a bubble diffuser below that piping system.
I personally stopped building scrubbers (I had plans for several others for tanks I maintain) until next year when the new version is 'released'. From what little I've been able to gather, it is a radically different design.
As for the noise, the SM style with a bottom drain, from what I've seen (youtube vids) and experienced (with mine), is noisy with the lid off. When you have enough flow, the drain tends to gurgle quite loudly. If you made the drain rather large, and used a bulkhead with a slope on the intake instead of a sharp 90 (like a Schedule-80 from BRS) then you might be able to cut the noise way back, but this is at the cost of increasing the width of the inner box and thus sacrificing some 3D growth potential.
I currenlty run one on top of the tank and got mostly around the noise issue by removing the bulkhead (mine wasn't really a bulkhead) and rigging up a system to break the fall of the water into the top of the tank. It's not perfect but it's temporary (if you call 6 months temporary) and keeps it relatively quiet, it varies throughout the weekly growth cycle, but I wouldn't want it in my bedroom. I think the pump noise is louder that the scrubber most of the time (and it's not a very quiet pump, an old Mag 5).
I came up with another way to do it when the inhabitants go back to their original home, and that is a bean system with a pump dedicated to the scrubber. The box has just holes in the bottom (no bulkheads) which then drains into a piping system with an air break between the two to prevent the gurgle, then a bubble diffuser below that piping system.
I personally stopped building scrubbers (I had plans for several others for tanks I maintain) until next year when the new version is 'released'. From what little I've been able to gather, it is a radically different design.
SPotter
Active member
somethings not right.....
somethings not right.....
My corals werent looking as good as usual last night so I did some testing. I had cut back on the frequency of testing because everything had been stable so its been about two weeks since my last test. I was really shocked to see my nitrates at 20 and phosphates to come in at .085. Not sure what is going on in the tank. I havent changed any of my feeding habbits, screen size, flow rates etc. There are no missing fish in the tank so I am very confused at this point.
somethings not right.....
My corals werent looking as good as usual last night so I did some testing. I had cut back on the frequency of testing because everything had been stable so its been about two weeks since my last test. I was really shocked to see my nitrates at 20 and phosphates to come in at .085. Not sure what is going on in the tank. I havent changed any of my feeding habbits, screen size, flow rates etc. There are no missing fish in the tank so I am very confused at this point.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Are you still getting the same algae growth? What's your light cycle (scrubber) set to? Post specs on scrubber and tank maybe that will help us look into the issue...
SPotter
Active member
I cut my lighting cycle back by an hour because the leds were causing burn circles in my screen so I am 17 on and 7 off. My screen is 8x8, flow is around 350gph, lights are 7x3w leds on each side (3 white and 4 red). display is 40g mixed reef and theres a 10g frag tank on the system.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
This could be a couple of things. 3W LEDs are very intense, are you using some kind of diffusion grating? Lenses? How close are the LEDs? (I just looked back at your build, but didn't know if anything changed)
White LEDs have not been shown to contribute nearly as much to growth as reds, it doesn't matter what white it is. I would replace them with reds. If you can, go with a 50/50 mix of 630nm and 660nm reds, or something close to that. If you have to choose between one or the other, it could go either way but I know that a few have had great growth with 660 only. Not much other data out there which is why I suggest 50/50.
Also if you are burning they are too close or not diffused properly. Since you don't worry about frequency of turning lights on and off impacting lamp life with LEDs, you could also try splitting the light cycle into 2 periods with a few hours in between and see if that helps. Make one dark cycle longer than the other.
Also something for thought - the concept of using more intense CFL lights for a shorter period of time in order to lengthen the time in between changing lamps may cross over in concept here, not so much with respect to extending lamp life but with respect to more intense light's ability to produce greener growth faster with a shorter photoperiod. Your system may have this intense level of light and you might be able to cut the photoperiod down even further, basically until you get good growth and no burning, but not so low that you get yellow rubbery growth.
It's my theory that a scrubber with LED lights needs a much shorter photoperiod because of the 'tuned' spectrum equating to more useable light / less wasted bandwidth.
So the long and short is that if you're burning the algae, then you're not getting adequate filtering, and the LEDs are the issue.
Still, this doesn't explain why this is just happening now...were your N and P pretty stable at 0/0 before this? Has the 'burning' been just a recent issue?
White LEDs have not been shown to contribute nearly as much to growth as reds, it doesn't matter what white it is. I would replace them with reds. If you can, go with a 50/50 mix of 630nm and 660nm reds, or something close to that. If you have to choose between one or the other, it could go either way but I know that a few have had great growth with 660 only. Not much other data out there which is why I suggest 50/50.
Also if you are burning they are too close or not diffused properly. Since you don't worry about frequency of turning lights on and off impacting lamp life with LEDs, you could also try splitting the light cycle into 2 periods with a few hours in between and see if that helps. Make one dark cycle longer than the other.
Also something for thought - the concept of using more intense CFL lights for a shorter period of time in order to lengthen the time in between changing lamps may cross over in concept here, not so much with respect to extending lamp life but with respect to more intense light's ability to produce greener growth faster with a shorter photoperiod. Your system may have this intense level of light and you might be able to cut the photoperiod down even further, basically until you get good growth and no burning, but not so low that you get yellow rubbery growth.
It's my theory that a scrubber with LED lights needs a much shorter photoperiod because of the 'tuned' spectrum equating to more useable light / less wasted bandwidth.
So the long and short is that if you're burning the algae, then you're not getting adequate filtering, and the LEDs are the issue.
Still, this doesn't explain why this is just happening now...were your N and P pretty stable at 0/0 before this? Has the 'burning' been just a recent issue?
SPotter
Active member
my nitrates had been 0 for a long time and phosphates had been steady around 0.0125. Then 3-4 weeks ago I added 3 more red to each side of the screen. thats when things started to burn. i have the leds about 5 inches away from screen with no difusers on it. i will try changing up the light schedule.
Im about 6 weeks away from the new tank going live so Im not going to change any of the leds at this point. I will take your advice for the scrubber that I think I will build for the new tank and use all red...most likely 1w.
Steve
Im about 6 weeks away from the new tank going live so Im not going to change any of the leds at this point. I will take your advice for the scrubber that I think I will build for the new tank and use all red...most likely 1w.
Steve
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Hmmm....I would say that you may have too much light now. Was there a reason for putting on the additional red LEDs?
srusso
Active member
PC lights are no good, they produce too much heat, and not enough par...
rndmcnflct
New member
I have an algae scrubber and it's noisy. As a result, I've been thinking about ways to quiet it down. Something I considered is operating a scrubber within a siphon. The overflow siphon line connected to a rectangular acrylic watertight box with the effluent terminating beneath the water line. Should be silent.
The overflow siphon could be connected to a union, then to the box, then to another union for easy cleaning. A tee with two valves preceding the box to control flow. The screen could be suspended within the box not from a slot in a pipe but instead with magnets attached to the top and bottom of the screen and to the top and bottom of the box. The box would have an O-ring and a screw down lid similar to a canister filter.
Flow? Tons. Light? Same as any other SM style box. Is the lack of air an issue? I'm thinking not, algae takes CO2 from the water column and overgrown screens start to go 3D anyway. Any thoughts?
The overflow siphon could be connected to a union, then to the box, then to another union for easy cleaning. A tee with two valves preceding the box to control flow. The screen could be suspended within the box not from a slot in a pipe but instead with magnets attached to the top and bottom of the screen and to the top and bottom of the box. The box would have an O-ring and a screw down lid similar to a canister filter.
Flow? Tons. Light? Same as any other SM style box. Is the lack of air an issue? I'm thinking not, algae takes CO2 from the water column and overgrown screens start to go 3D anyway. Any thoughts?
JohnnyB in SD
New member
Why/where is your ATS noisy now?
Water flowing to the screen or draining away?
Sounds like you have an enclosed SM style box, or are considering building one that's watertight?
You've described a pretty complex solution but not details of the original problem.
Water flowing to the screen or draining away?
Sounds like you have an enclosed SM style box, or are considering building one that's watertight?
You've described a pretty complex solution but not details of the original problem.
JohnnyB in SD
New member
Floyd-
You know anything about the ATS II besides the discussion involving licensing considerations?
In particular, how would it be more advantageous than current standard design - more effective in less space / consuming less energy, etc?
Unless the basic principal of flowing water over an illuminated screen is changing to something entirely different, wouldn't you consider it to be just another variation of the current method?
You know anything about the ATS II besides the discussion involving licensing considerations?
In particular, how would it be more advantageous than current standard design - more effective in less space / consuming less energy, etc?
Unless the basic principal of flowing water over an illuminated screen is changing to something entirely different, wouldn't you consider it to be just another variation of the current method?
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JohnnyB in SD
New member
Hey Floyd,
Can you please expand on your idea: "The box has just holes in the bottom (no bulkheads) which then drains into a piping system with an air break between the two to prevent the gurgle" ?
Can you please expand on your idea: "The box has just holes in the bottom (no bulkheads) which then drains into a piping system with an air break between the two to prevent the gurgle" ?
gurgling on the SM100 style boxes
gurgling on the SM100 style boxes
As far as gurgle goes, could just just simply insert a short length of 1/4" tubing into your bulkhead. This is assuming that you have a hose attached to the bulkhead, and not just letting it dump into the tank or sump.
My overflow box used to drive me nutts with the gurgle, so I put a ball valve on the end of the 3/4 tubing where it drained into the fuge, to slow it down just enough to stop the gurgle. Once I installed my ATS, I had to open the ball valve all the way, to get as much flow as possible. As soon as I did that, the very loud gurgle started back. I did a little googling, and found that there was a VERY simple fix. Works like a charm, using just a piece of scrap airline tubing.
I don't have a SM100 style ATS, so I have no clue if this is even applicable to this situation. But I figured I would at least bring it up to see if it might help some of you out with the gurgling issues.
Here is a pic that I swiped from another forum. It shows an overflow box, but I would think the concept would be the same.
gurgling on the SM100 style boxes
As far as gurgle goes, could just just simply insert a short length of 1/4" tubing into your bulkhead. This is assuming that you have a hose attached to the bulkhead, and not just letting it dump into the tank or sump.
My overflow box used to drive me nutts with the gurgle, so I put a ball valve on the end of the 3/4 tubing where it drained into the fuge, to slow it down just enough to stop the gurgle. Once I installed my ATS, I had to open the ball valve all the way, to get as much flow as possible. As soon as I did that, the very loud gurgle started back. I did a little googling, and found that there was a VERY simple fix. Works like a charm, using just a piece of scrap airline tubing.
I don't have a SM100 style ATS, so I have no clue if this is even applicable to this situation. But I figured I would at least bring it up to see if it might help some of you out with the gurgling issues.
Here is a pic that I swiped from another forum. It shows an overflow box, but I would think the concept would be the same.
Attachments
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
jcooler, thanks for that. I keep forgetting about that technique. It does work, but I have heard that it makes your drain run quite fast so you get flushing sometimes. So watch for that (I think) otherwise give it a shot.
rnd: not quite following, I think I need a picture/drawing. Sounds complicated. Try the airline idea.
JohnnyB: no. his lips are zipped this time. Putting the idea of the slot tube and vertical screen in the public realm was a big mistake because he lost all rights to the idea (so did anyone else). As far as I know it still follows the basics of screen + light + water = algae. But that's about all I know.
rnd: not quite following, I think I need a picture/drawing. Sounds complicated. Try the airline idea.
JohnnyB: no. his lips are zipped this time. Putting the idea of the slot tube and vertical screen in the public realm was a big mistake because he lost all rights to the idea (so did anyone else). As far as I know it still follows the basics of screen + light + water = algae. But that's about all I know.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Some handy cleaning guidelines
alaska clowns
New member
The last time I cleaned my screen was 4 days ago. The pics are of just one of the sides, before and after cleaning. On the plate is both sides' worth of gunk. (sorry, pictures on next post)
I'm assuming this is considered the black, oily kind of algae that should be cleaned off every three days?
This time, I did not remove the old screen and clean behind it - should I be doing that every time (even if I'm cleaning every 3 days)?
Phosphate - .5
Nitrate - 5
PH 8.8 (I think that's either a test kit error or that I need to find an alternative to the glass top on the main tank)
Thank you.... I just want to make sure I'm working the scrubber properly!
My display tank algae problem is at least at bay, and I think very gradually getting better. There are a very few strands of hair algae in a couple of tiny spots now that I notice when looking very closely..........:headwally:
Hope my scrubber hurries up!
I'm assuming this is considered the black, oily kind of algae that should be cleaned off every three days?
This time, I did not remove the old screen and clean behind it - should I be doing that every time (even if I'm cleaning every 3 days)?
Phosphate - .5
Nitrate - 5
PH 8.8 (I think that's either a test kit error or that I need to find an alternative to the glass top on the main tank)
Thank you.... I just want to make sure I'm working the scrubber properly!
My display tank algae problem is at least at bay, and I think very gradually getting better. There are a very few strands of hair algae in a couple of tiny spots now that I notice when looking very closely..........:headwally:
Hope my scrubber hurries up!
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