Algae Scrubber Basics

[Floyd R Turbo]

One Clownfish - your screen looks pretty good so far. Your flow is about right, could be a little higher, that never hurts. BTW was that flow rate measured, or did you calculate it based on head loss/etc?

So...if you have 10x22 = 220 sq in, but single sided, that's 110 sq in "effective" capacity, which is about 9 cubes/day, if you had it properly lit (with 110W of light). You are a little low on that, so 2x40W = 80 / 12 = 6.67, but a little extra intensity never hurts, because you can ratchet down the hours if you start growing yellow algae.

One suggestion for you, you can add a couple lights to the back side of the screen by doing something like srusso has shown on page 1 of this thread - those hanging "shop" lights, lined with aluminum foil. Something is better than nothing. Double sided screens work better for more than one reason, it's not just about using a smaller screen, the algae grows better because the light from both sides keeps the "roots" alive longer, meaning less chance of detachment.

also, you can drape Saran Wrap over the entire screen and this will help growth as well. It also allows you to put the lights closer to the screen (and protects them from spray).

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Clay - looks like you're growing good chunks of algae on your screen, but the flow looks extremely low. you want it running fast enough so that the water falls off the screen in a continuous sheet - 35 GPH per inch of screen width (measured, not calculated). However, if it works for you, leave it! Just be aware of potential limitations of your setup, that's all.

 

[one clownfish]

Thanks Floyd, the ATS is fed from the overflow split with a tee. I did measure it, it's about 275 gal/hr. I have complete water coverage on the screen, top to bottom. I had the bottom light about 1.5"-2" away from the screen for the first 2 days and nothing was growing, so I moved it back to 3.5", like the top light and it started growing right away. Should I move it as close as I can? I'm going to make an LED fixture for the ATS in 2 months, after the screen is growing good and before the bulbs need replacing. I'm keeping a weekly log of all my tank parameters. I'll post them and pictures in a few weeks. I'm to embarrassed to say what they are right now, my tank is completely out of control.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

If you have a tank that is currently algae-ridden, It's going to be a long road if your scrubber is not powerful. You need to make that scrubber as strong as you can, overlight it if you can even until you start getting green algae. You can try a few other things to get light on to the back side, such as CFL floodlights (even if they aren't aiming directly at the screen, it's better than nothing). Also you might consider that you could replace the current lights with 4 CFL floodlights as well and over-power the whole thing to suck the N and P out of the tank (and likely the rocks/substrate) temporarily. I would do the saran wrap thing right away though, it will help a lot.

 

[one clownfish]

I'll build my led fixture ASAP, I can have it done by the end of next week. I'll light one side with the LEDs and the other with the (2) 40 watt cfl's. When I have it under control, I'll size the screen properly. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[one clownfish]

Day 10 & I have Green Algae Growing

Day 10 & I have Green Algae Growing

I've got 70% of my screen growing some green algae. Its starting to smother out the brown and red. I'm also ordering my Leds today, hopefully I'll get them up and running by the weekend. I put the plastic wrap on it 3 days ago and it almost instantly turned green. I'm using the press'n seal type, its kinda frosted. I'll probably swap that for the clear plastic wrap after the screen is full of the green hair algae.

 

[JHawlz9989]

Floyd, srusso, and anyone else who has advice

I noticed on another thread that you are beginning to advocate the Luxeon LED's, but you also mentioned earlier that 1W LED's seem to be better due to the spread and being able to cluster them better.

I am planning an ATS for a school tank, with the goal of feeding around 8-10 cube equivalents per day. First, is that even reasonable for 350 gallon tank? I have a personal 20 gallon, so I have no idea what people generally feed on larger tanks. I plan on stocking only a few fish, maybe two tangs, a few wrasses, and miscellaneous smaller fish (chromis, blennys, or gobies). Would it be better to have the scrubber a little underpowered if there would be two tangs in there?

Second, I am trying to plan the electrical side of things. I am thinking 7 Luxeon deep red and 1 Luxeon (or Cree?) royal blue per side. I haven't had the chance to measure the flow rate on the return, so length x height of the scrubber is still TBD. I believe I would need to use Steve's 200w PS, but drivers are where I get stuck. Would it be better to run a double driver so I could adjust the intensity of each side?

Third, heatsink options. The scrubber will be in a closed sump area. Would it be advisable to go with the 1-1/4" aluminum tubing or a traditional finned heatsink?

Thanks for all the help,

Josh

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I've got 70% of my screen growing some green algae. Its starting to smother out the brown and red. I'm also ordering my Leds today, hopefully I'll get them up and running by the weekend. I put the plastic wrap on it 3 days ago and it almost instantly turned green. I'm using the press'n seal type, its kinda frosted. I'll probably swap that for the clear plastic wrap after the screen is full of the green hair algae.

I don't know what the composition of the press and seal wrap is, I personally wouldn't use it though. I just am not sure whether or not some kind of adhesive is used that makes it work the way it does. Perhaps someone else might be able to shed some light on that. However it is a food-grade material, as is saran wrap.

Floyd, srusso, and anyone else who has advice

I noticed on another thread that you are beginning to advocate the Luxeon LED's, but you also mentioned earlier that 1W LED's seem to be better due to the spread and being able to cluster them better.

I am planning an ATS for a school tank, with the goal of feeding around 8-10 cube equivalents per day. First, is that even reasonable for 350 gallon tank? I have a personal 20 gallon, so I have no idea what people generally feed on larger tanks. I plan on stocking only a few fish, maybe two tangs, a few wrasses, and miscellaneous smaller fish (chromis, blennys, or gobies). Would it be better to have the scrubber a little underpowered if there would be two tangs in there?

Second, I am trying to plan the electrical side of things. I am thinking 7 Luxeon deep red and 1 Luxeon (or Cree?) royal blue per side. I haven't had the chance to measure the flow rate on the return, so length x height of the scrubber is still TBD. I believe I would need to use Steve's 200w PS, but drivers are where I get stuck. Would it be better to run a double driver so I could adjust the intensity of each side?

Third, heatsink options. The scrubber will be in a closed sump area. Would it be advisable to go with the 1-1/4" aluminum tubing or a traditional finned heatsink?

Thanks for all the help,

Josh

As far as 1W vs 3W, I think it all comes down to intensity and availability/price. From what I have heard, there hasn't been much innovation going on in 1W deep reds because they aren't in much demand. 3W LEDs have had some progress on the other hand, I'm not sure how this affects quality/efficiency/efficacy of deep red LEDs however.

If you put 3x 1W chips in place of 1x 3W chip for a given array, you will end up with a little higher intensity and a little more even coverage, however this can also be achieved with 3W LEDs by placing them closer than you normally would and then diffusing them (which is what I do). Also you have 3x less LEDs to wire and mount, and wiring LEDs that are placed very close together can become quite cumbersome - more chances of hitting an LED with the soldering iron, more connection points that could fail, etc.

I wouldn't think you would need a 200W driver, because you're only powering a dozen or so LEDs. The Meanwell LPC-35-700 is 35W @ 700mA and does pretty well powering 14 LEDs, anything over that and you move to a larger driver. Some drivers have issues when you don't put enough LEDs on them so choose wisely.

As far as heat sinks go, you can use just about anything as long as it keeps the LEDs cool, fan or no fan. finned heat sinks are not that expensive and you can get them cut to the exact size you need, whereas tubing you will likely need to cut and may need to run with fans, you end up doing a lot of DIY hours which makes the finned heat sinks more attractive IMO, but it comes down to whatever works for your particular application.

Hope that helps

 

[Brian DeGolier]

Here is my old experimental ATS, it was T'd off from the drain line from the DT that I started back in April. It took a lot of thought and it was not perfect and did not try any rules of 35 gallon per hour, per inch etc., and was lit on one side with a 2700 K PC fluorescent bulb. I basically wanted to try it out because I really like the idea of an ATS, a natural way of nutrient exportation. I grew some slimy, bubbly, brown algae and I have to admit that it had to contribute to my hair algae slowly starting to disappear, along with an ambitious campaign to rid the aquarium of it as well with other means.

After reading this thread, (well parts of it several different times because it's so long) I decided to redo my sump. I still have the skimmer, I removed the refugium with the DSB but still using the chaeto and a little GFO; later I will disconnect the skimmer or put it on a timer and remove the chaeto and GFO altogether. I have a MJ-1200 hooked up to the ATS, the flow was too much so I ball-valved it off until there is more algae slowing it down where it comes out. The PVC tube where the screen comes out of is ¾", although I wanted to use ½" but I read that the ½" PVC, even the thin wall type was too restrictive so I used ¾" instead. The screen is completely roughed up with a hack saw blade and is 10.5" X 13.5." I read on the first page of this thread that the water must flow at 35 GPH per inch of screen width and the maxi-jet is about 295 GPH from the pump. The head pressure slows it obviously, I have about 15" of vinyl tubing with a ball valve. The screen is mounted on the short end 10.5" meaning the water flows 13" down so should be 368 GPH of flow going over the screen, it's less than 295 GPH b/c of the ball valve, so I'm short a few GPH's. I have a guarded utility light in lieu of a clamp light with a 2700 K power compact, (which I just posted a question about because it shocked me), I mimicked the first design on this thread from srusso but I plan to add more lights later on this week. The slit in the PVC for where the screen is inserted is about 3/16" but this can be corrected later on as the ATS matures. I hope this is the last design of my sump, I have two 20 gal high aquariums that I interchange every 6 months or so b/c I always have a bright idea of a new sump/fuge.

Anyway, this thread has been a huge part of my ATS research the past several months and thought I would post my design, I welcome any thoughts or feedback or questions. Thank you.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Have you reviewed the feeding-based sizing guidelines? You might not need such a large screen. Even smaller if you light it on both sides.

Also I recently "bench tested" the flow rate out of a Cobalt MJ-1200 (original maxijet before marineland botched it up) and at 13" over vertical head, the flow rate is about 180-190 GPH, so you're low on flow, I can guarantee it.

that being said if your screen is oversized and underlit, and under flow, it still might work just fine depending on your particular setup and how much you feed. Just be aware of the potential limitations.

 

[Brian DeGolier]

Have you reviewed the feeding-based sizing guidelines? You might not need such a large screen. Even smaller if you light it on both sides.

Also I recently "bench tested" the flow rate out of a Cobalt MJ-1200 (original maxijet before marineland botched it up) and at 13" over vertical head, the flow rate is about 180-190 GPH, so you're low on flow, I can guarantee it.

that being said if your screen is oversized and underlit, and under flow, it still might work just fine depending on your particular setup and how much you feed. Just be aware of the potential limitations.

Hi Floyd-
I do remember reading the feeding guidelines awhile back, I will have to look at that again. I feed mysis shrimp once a day, I do not have too much of a fish population in the 55 gal but there is quite a lot of LPS and other softies in which I typically feed twice per week. I'll sit back and observe and make minor adjustments as needed.
I was wondering about the Cobalt, a little more expensive than the poorly redesigned MJ1200, but I assume b/c of the quality of what it used to be, I had 2 that I recently threw away. Thanks for your time.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Look at my signature for the updated basics, the feeding guideline is in there. I think based on what you just stated that you could scale back the screen to no more than 6x6, maybe a bit less width to get the flow up, and put one of those drop lamps on the other side, or switch to CFL floodlights (more $ but easier to implement). Don't forget to line drop lamps with aluminum foil if you use those.

One other thing, your slot is 3/16" wide, this might lead to uneven flow, 1/8" is what most use, if you go wider then you can push more flow across the screen (a lot more actually) as long as your screen is rough enough (scroll back a few pages for my YouTube video of roughing up) but if your flow is very low, the coverage will likely be rather uneven. What typically happens in this case is the algae fills in where the flow is, then that algae diverts the water and algae starts growing where the flow has been diverted to, which causes less flow to the already grown algae, causing it to weaken, burn and/or die.

So all of these basic things are rather important to get right, or at least rather close.

 

[Brian DeGolier]

Floyd- Excellent write up, thank you for directing me to it. I will be redesigning my ATS with 2 clamp lights and a hang-on acrylic sheild and a union. I'll mess around with the flow too. Thanks again, a very good read with nice pictures.

 

[codyreef29]

I hang a sock(usually a nike) for feet from my skimmer to keep the water from splashing and getting water everywhere the flow is from a maxijet at about half power so about 125-150 gph. I have a 42 watt cfl 6500k close to it for cheato,live rock, dsp. Could i add a bulb to that what bulb would /Y?EYEEY suggest>?

The skimmer is in my 5.5 gallon sump below my HUGE 7.5 LOL

Also i could make one with my return it's 3/4inch and is about 150 gph flow as you can see or the far right of the screen.

I just realized that I'm only going to be feeding corals, and pods and there probably is'nt a need. But i'll let you know if i get algea on the sock!!

 

[TheHoove]

So About a year ago I built a scrubber following the original guidelines, more of less. It was slightly under light. And never got great growth. Shortly After I built a new stand, changed my 20 long sump out for a standard 30g tank. None of my scrubber stuff worked, and I didint have the pieces on hand to put it back together. So It got tossed aside. Lately Ive been getting a bit of hair algae again. So I looked over what I had left to build and easy dirt cheap scrubber. I still Had a whole new screen, half a box of CFLs, and the 2 drop lights currently over my chaeto, a bunch of egg crate, lots of zip ties, a couple PVC fittings, and lots of clear lexan and acrylic sheet. So I built this:

I took and cut a screen to the size I wanted. Took and cut a piece of acrylic the same size. Roughed the screen up good. Zip tied the screen to the acrylic so the water would not just fall through the screen but flow across it. I zip tied together a basic frame from eggcrate to set it on, about an inch above waterline in my sump. Modified my overflow to fall right in the center of the screen, about 1/2" off the surface. Set from old pieces of acrylic over it for spray, swapped the 6500k bulbs out of my lights and replaced with 2700k ones I had, and set the lights over it. Its easy to clean. Turn the return pump off, move a light, pick it up and wash it off in the sink.
The screen is about 10x14, so 140sqin, for a tank I feed one cube a day, and a couple times a week, a second cube of coral food or raw clams for lps. Flow is low for the screen size, at 280gph dirty. And light is probably low, at 50w, 6" away, through wet acrylic. It may not work well, but its a fun experiment, and not replacing any filtration yet. This is first cleaning, 2 weeks:

As far as im concerned, any algae that grows on it, is not growing in my tank.

So update on this unorthodox scrubber.
3rd cleaning, about 2 weeks of growth:

4th cleaning, again, about 2 weeks of growth:

seems to be doing very good for what it is. Refugium hair algae is gone, and display hair algae is slowly thinning. Im very happy with the outcome, and simplicity.

 

[reeftanknewbie]

great idea "TheHoove". reminds me of a ATS I had in my sump back in the 90's. It was the return part of a built in sump skimmer I had. simple tray that water flowed over. worked great.

 

[srusso]

So update on this unorthodox scrubber.
3rd cleaning, about 2 weeks of growth:

4th cleaning, again, about 2 weeks of growth:

seems to be doing very good for what it is. Refugium hair algae is gone, and display hair algae is slowly thinning. Im very happy with the outcome, and simplicity.

Nice growth, may respond better to weekly harvests. Thank you for sharing!

 

[EWC88]

I am in the process of starting a tank and need a little help about the algae scrubber idea.

At first I was looking at building a sump/fuge set-up as my filter, then I saw this thread and read that its great with the prevention of algae build up in the tank.

If I was to build one of these, do I still have a fuge spot in the sump? Do I not use a filter sock as I was planning before? What are the pros and cons of the algae scrubber?

 

[TheHoove]

Nice growth, may respond better to weekly harvests. Thank you for sharing!

Im sure it would. Its been a matter of not havijg time to weekly harvest. Im trying ro now.

 

[LiMaZoo]

First, what a great thread this is. I've read start to finish and it's been very motivating- big applause for every contributer. I joined RC specifically out of admiration of this thread. So my question is, has anyone done a comparison with traditional vs upflow algae scrubber? I just put a UAS in the sump 6 days ago using an airstone attached to roughened screen. Trying to transition over to scrubber instead of carbon (no debates, just an experiment). I can try to document some results if there's anyone interested in UAS.