Algae Scrubber Basics
- Thread starter srusso
- Start date
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Let it grow at least 7 days. You never really need to scrub a UAS screen, nor do you really want to. Just scrape it and rinse under room temp tap water while rubbing with fingertips. you probably won't need to scrape it until it won't come off any other way. I have found that the UAS algae does not hold on as strongly to the screen and most of it can be rubbed off, but it's quicker to scrape it.
You probably won't have to scrape it hard until 4-6 weeks though. Just rinse and rub should do fine for a while.
My thought is that algae adapts to some extent depending on the environment, and the algae that grows on a UAS appears to be somewhat different than a waterfall scrubber - put a UAS screen in waterfall mode or vice versa and it will just about start over in terms of growth cycle. The waterfall algae needs to be scraped off, my thinking is that this is because the algae must have a strong attachment due to the speed of water across it.
You probably won't have to scrape it hard until 4-6 weeks though. Just rinse and rub should do fine for a while.
My thought is that algae adapts to some extent depending on the environment, and the algae that grows on a UAS appears to be somewhat different than a waterfall scrubber - put a UAS screen in waterfall mode or vice versa and it will just about start over in terms of growth cycle. The waterfall algae needs to be scraped off, my thinking is that this is because the algae must have a strong attachment due to the speed of water across it.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Very interesting article. Thanks for posting! That system sounds extremely promising. I wonder how expensive it is though. Looks like it's for very large systems right now, and getting scaled down. I see that as something these guys over in the "large tank" forum section would be jumping all over first.
Interesting that they do mention a few things about skimmers removing food from the water and make mention of the possibility that the DyMiCo system could mean that skimmers (and from their article, any other form of filtration) would be a thing of the past, and their system would the the "ultimate" in natural filtration.
There are countless people that report an explosion of pods, sponges, and filter feeders in tanks that run scrubbers, and this is especially true when you only run a scrubber, no mechanical filtration or anything else. Now if I can only get my hands on one of those high-flow, low-cavitation pumps, maybe I would have more plankton surviving too!!!
I agree with you 100% and I think I'll always run a scrubber because of it. Did you notice from the article this chart and the Potassium levels in particular? I wonder if algae is a large consumer of Potassium? We know that it's a consumer of iron already and that SM even did experiments to see if he could increase algae growth rates by supplementing iron. For those interested, he did confirm that growth rates are increased and richer, greener algae grows with iron additions (just don't over do it). Perhaps the same holds true for Potassium? I am curious if Steve/srusso has been able to get test readings on Potassium levels in his tank yet. Or anyone else?
SPotter
Active member
I started dosing k about 12 days ago. I first tested with a salifert kit and then a kz kit I had bought a yr ago. both results were very close but realize that the elos kit is the better of the kits. my initial level was 290-300 and was able to raise it up 390-400 over a 4 day period and I have been dosing 45ml every other day which has maintained that level for me. with in a few days of starting k doses I did notice much improvement in the appearance of my sps especially the blues. I did my cleaning last night after 8 days since the previous cleaning. the growth I had was amazing and by far the best that I've had. I didnt get a picture of the screen but heres one of what came off the screen....
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
srusso
Active member
That all is great news Potter! You finding that your tank was also low on potassium keeps us right in line with my theory.
We need to understand that this means during the weekly harvest of algae, we are also harvesting huge amounts of autotrophic and heterotrophic bacteria... the lowest life forms in our aquarium primary production. This group of primary producers are consuming lots of potassium. This is what I believe helps an algae scrubber be so extremely effective. We are not only harvesting algae but in reality are harvesting far more bacteria each week, providing a new "huge" surface for bacteria to colonize on as well.
If we want this group of bacteria to be effective we have to feed them... that means the potassium is for the algae and bacteria. The next steps are to find potassium uptake and also find a good cheap source of potassium nitrate.
A club member told me he could easily give me a life time supply and that its very cheap... so that's a good thing.
1) So I ask everyone search out cheap or DIY methods for dosing potassium.
2) Also find and post information on autotroph and heterotroph bacteria b/c we know this isn't just about algae anymore. Within the layers and covering every bit of algae, billions of bacteria.
What do they consume?
How fast do they multiply?
Is there anything other then potassium that could help the process?
From my limited time to research, it seems the bacteria consume detritus and inorganic matter... :lol2: :celeb1:
Talk about great news!!!
Last edited:
Biocube 29, feed every other day with varies foods.
Change water every other week 5g
I have HOG .5 by Santa M.
My 2nd clean screen...it's (all mix) green and dark green , some brown algae on screen. 18 hrs on 6 hrs off , 2 red LEDs.
I'm still stuck with a bit high phos 0.07-.10 I used Hanna checker test.
Before HOG, it always 0.00-0.02 and after its raising # of phosphate
Advice ?
Thanks
Jake
Change water every other week 5g
I have HOG .5 by Santa M.
My 2nd clean screen...it's (all mix) green and dark green , some brown algae on screen. 18 hrs on 6 hrs off , 2 red LEDs.
I'm still stuck with a bit high phos 0.07-.10 I used Hanna checker test.
Before HOG, it always 0.00-0.02 and after its raising # of phosphate
Advice ?
Thanks
Jake
JohnnyB in SD
New member
EXACTLY what I was just logging on to post but you beat me to it. I need to find an economical source of Potassium. I've dosed 400ml of Brightwell and barely budged the level on a 240gl system. It is going to cost an arm & a leg to get it raised to 390ppm and keep it there using that stuff.
I don't see any generic alternatives in the mainstream supply chain.
Is it Potassium Nitrate we want? The Brightwell is Potassium Sulfate & Potassium Chloride. Nitrates don't sound like something I want to add to my system?
Last edited:
srusso
Active member
40 for 40 sounds good to me!
Thank you for finding that! Post a link or two if you can. Thanks!
salty joe
Active member
How about making a saturated solution for dosing?
Would ionic imbalance be a concern with long term use of potassium chloride?
UPDATE: I am in the middle of my ATS build and have a couple more questions.
1. Is the GPH / slot size a function of the square root of total area of the screen, or just simple the dimensional measurement of the screen. I have a 10.5" x 13.5" screen. I plant to use the long side, so do I need a flow of 13.5 x 35 gph, or the square root of the area x 35 gph? Probably being nit picky here, but want to get it right.
2. I am a little concerned there won't be enough light. I plan to use 4 - 23 watt CFL bulbs in 8.5" reflectors, two on both sides. That works out to 92 watts of light for a surface area of 141.75". That is less than the recommended watts / gallon, but I don't think I can fit anymore reflectors in front of the screen. I suppose I can always look for higher wattage CFL's.
3. Is there a reason it has to be CFL, or can it be regular incandescent bulb? If so, couldn't I get a lot more wattage / surface area?
Oddly enought, the part of this build that I thought would be most difficult, finding a pump, has been the easiest part.
I am trying to finish this up tonight, i'll post pictures when it's finished with my starting water parameters.
Thanks!
srusso
Active member
Right, we all have RODI so mixing our own solutions should be fine. I was told something as small as a quarter teaspoon of a potassium nitrate or potassium chloride could create several gallons of dosing solution.
We will want to get a base line uptake of potassium in the aquarium. Per day, per week... Etc. this is where actually having a test kit is required... So I will have to get one soon. I haven't dosed potassium for a bit b/c I wasn't sure how fast it could drop again... Now that Potter has posted results showing fast depletion I will resume dosing by eye until I can start getting a weekly uptake amount with a test kit.
From there we can drip a solution...? I guess, maybe put it in top off?
SPotter
Active member
I found this old thread on here.....
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957770
It has some links to different food grade products and brings an interesting point about cleaning agents in the water softening tablets. Im happy with the Brightwell product but would like something cheaper that I can also hook up to a dosing pump and put it on auto pilot.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957770
It has some links to different food grade products and brings an interesting point about cleaning agents in the water softening tablets. Im happy with the Brightwell product but would like something cheaper that I can also hook up to a dosing pump and put it on auto pilot.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Whoa, slow down with the square root stuff. There is no power factors involved here!!! Where did you get that LOL
Flow is strictly GPH per inch of screen width. Width of screen x 35 GPH = target flow rate.
That will get you started, at least. If you want to fit more lamps into the space, just trim the reflectors where they would "intersect" so you can stack them next to each other.
No incandescent. you would need actual wattage of incandescent matched to the "equivalent" wattage of CFL. Meaning for a ~23W CFL, you would need a ~100W incandescent. So you would need >400W of inc light, that's too much heat and power, among other reasons.
Sounds good, and you're welcome!!
One more thing: on your previous post:
I scrolled back in the thread and scanned it quickly, I didn't see anyone ask the question about your choice of screen size - have you reviewed the feeding-based sizing guidelines? It seems you are sizing your screen according to the tank volume, this is the old method. New method is 12 sq in of material per cube of food fed per day. So your 144 sq in screen is big enough for 12 cubes of food per day - do you really feed that much?
Hey Floyd,
Thanks for the quick reply. I definitely don't feed 12 cubes a day, that is a boat load. Right now, i'm feeding between 2 and 3 cubes of ON products and probably 2 cubes of Mysis. I also feed some algae sheets once or twice a day.
I may see if I can find some higher wattage CFL bulbs. They should make a 150 Watt incan equivalent, I believe it is roughly 30 watts. This gets my closer to the 1 watt / square inch target.
Sorry on the square root stuff, I get excited sometimes. I just want to make sure i'm doing it right.
I can't believe that 12 square inches handles one cube of food per day. I trust you, i'm just shocked that such a small and relatively cheap device can manage nitrates, a problem that so many people struggle with and spend huge amounts of money and time trying to eliminate.
If all goes well, I'll post some pictures tonight, although I tried to post some pictures of my setup in a different thread and the RC site told me that they were too big. Any pointers on posting pictures?
Thanks for the quick reply. I definitely don't feed 12 cubes a day, that is a boat load. Right now, i'm feeding between 2 and 3 cubes of ON products and probably 2 cubes of Mysis. I also feed some algae sheets once or twice a day.
I may see if I can find some higher wattage CFL bulbs. They should make a 150 Watt incan equivalent, I believe it is roughly 30 watts. This gets my closer to the 1 watt / square inch target.
Sorry on the square root stuff, I get excited sometimes. I just want to make sure i'm doing it right.
I can't believe that 12 square inches handles one cube of food per day. I trust you, i'm just shocked that such a small and relatively cheap device can manage nitrates, a problem that so many people struggle with and spend huge amounts of money and time trying to eliminate.
If all goes well, I'll post some pictures tonight, although I tried to post some pictures of my setup in a different thread and the RC site told me that they were too big. Any pointers on posting pictures?
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
It has no trouble keeping the N down, P is another issue, but may or may not have anything to do with screen size.
As for your screen, Nori adds quite a bit of load so you will want to break down exactly how much of this you feed per day, on a square inch basis.
This is the cube-equivalent "formula"
1 frozen cube per day
10 pinches of flake food per day
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day
So if you feed 2-3 ON cubes, 2 mysis cubes, and 1.5 sheets of Nori (on avg) per day, that's probably in the range of 7 cubes/day, give or take. So your screen is not grossly oversized, I recommend that you not exceed the feeding based guideline by more than a factor of 1.5, so 7 * 1.5 = 10.5 or a 100 sq in screen, max. This helps your situation because you can stick with the 23W CFLs on a 100W screen.
Go down to what you actually feed, 12 x 7 = 84 sq in, now your light is a little more concentrated/intense and you might actually get better growth.
As for your screen, Nori adds quite a bit of load so you will want to break down exactly how much of this you feed per day, on a square inch basis.
This is the cube-equivalent "formula"
1 frozen cube per day
10 pinches of flake food per day
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day
So if you feed 2-3 ON cubes, 2 mysis cubes, and 1.5 sheets of Nori (on avg) per day, that's probably in the range of 7 cubes/day, give or take. So your screen is not grossly oversized, I recommend that you not exceed the feeding based guideline by more than a factor of 1.5, so 7 * 1.5 = 10.5 or a 100 sq in screen, max. This helps your situation because you can stick with the 23W CFLs on a 100W screen.
Go down to what you actually feed, 12 x 7 = 84 sq in, now your light is a little more concentrated/intense and you might actually get better growth.
I am surprised that the scrubber doesn't work on the phosphate too. I've read a little bit about how the potassium can become a limiting factor in the consumption of those too compounds.
Your estimate on the "nori" is probably right, so it sounds like my screen is closer to being appropriately sized. I am using a 1.5' manifold, will that present any probelms?
What's funny is I don't even have any coral, I'm just trying to get the best possible water quality for my fish. That and i'm also trying to save some money on salt.
I'll try to post pictures, but the last couple that I took far exceeded the size limit of RC. Any thoughts on what to do there?
Your estimate on the "nori" is probably right, so it sounds like my screen is closer to being appropriately sized. I am using a 1.5' manifold, will that present any probelms?
What's funny is I don't even have any coral, I'm just trying to get the best possible water quality for my fish. That and i'm also trying to save some money on salt.
I'll try to post pictures, but the last couple that I took far exceeded the size limit of RC. Any thoughts on what to do there?
Similar threads
