Algae Scrubber Basics

[Floyd R Turbo]

I didn't say that it didn't work on P. I said it's another issue. Some people experience a limiting factor which seems to prevent P from getting reduced to zero. It will definitely keep P in check, just not to the level that some would prefer (primarily, heavy SPS keepers, and other P sensitive corals)

1.5" manifold is no problem. You probably don't need a slot pipe any larger than 1" though.

If you don't have corals, then you don't need to worry much about P, unless you have a nuisance GHA of cyano outbreak. Those are other reasons to keep P in check. I wouldn't worry much about it unless you see something out of the norm.

As for pics, try downloading Irfanview to downscale the pics, or upload to Photobucket or another online album and use their image re-sizing capabilities.

 

[srusso]

I found this old thread on here.....

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957770

It has some links to different food grade products and brings an interesting point about cleaning agents in the water softening tablets. Im happy with the Brightwell product but would like something cheaper that I can also hook up to a dosing pump and put it on auto pilot.

Thank you for posting this. Looks like potassium nitrate is not going to work...

FWIW, using KNO3 to boost potassium by a fairly small percentage, 20 ppm = 5%, will add 32 ppm nitrate.

 

[Gorgok]

It seems the first price i found was also pretty high for the potassium chloride. Here is another link from Ace at ~$26 for 40 lbs, up to 99.1% purity they claim: http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12024390&cagpspn=pla
You have to remember this stuff goes into drinking water... so i assume it does have fairly good regulation and testing.

Here is the link (much more recent) about K dosing with Randy replying: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2138790

 

[srusso]

Sold as Sodium Free table salt alternatives I believe will be our answer...
Or other health food supplements..

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Potassium-Chloride-Powder-8-oz-227-g/777?=ppnshpng&at=0

http://www.alsosalt.com/nosalt.html

http://www.wegmans.com/webapp/wcs/s...toreId=10052&catalogId=10002&productId=351678

I also found this from Randi...

To raise 100 gallons by 100 ppm, you need 38 grams of potassium, or 72 grams of potassium chloride. In your case you'd need 139 grams. That number of teaspoons might be about right.

 

[srusso]

It seems the first price i found was also pretty high for the potassium chloride. Here is another link from Ace at ~$26 for 40 lbs, up to 99.1% purity they claim: http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12024390&cagpspn=pla
You have to remember this stuff goes into drinking water... so i assume it does have fairly good regulation and testing.

Here is the link (much more recent) about K dosing with Randy replying: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2138790

Well I think you really hit the nail on the head!

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Would ionic imbalance be a concern with long term use of potassium chloride?

IMO, this is always a concern when dosing such solutions, including BRS Alk/Cal/Mag, which is why PWCs are still a good idea when dosing these versus a calcium reactor or kalkwasser.

 

[srusso]

"There are typically 40 million bacterial cells in a gram of soil and a million bacterial cells in a millilitre of fresh water; in all, there are approximately five nonillion (5×1030) bacteria on Earth,[3] forming a biomass that exceeds that of all plants and animals.[4] Bacteria are vital in recycling nutrients, with many steps in nutrient cycles depending on these organisms, such as the fixation of nitrogen from the atmosphere and putrefaction."

"Unlike in multicellular organisms, increases in cell size (cell growth and reproduction by cell division) are tightly linked in unicellular organisms. Bacteria grow to a fixed size and then reproduce through binary fission, a form of asexual reproduction.[103] Under optimal conditions, bacteria can grow and divide extremely rapidly, and bacterial populations can double as quickly as every 9.8 minutes."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria

I think the our scrubber and the algae that grows provides an optimal home for both autotropic bacteria and heterotrophic bacteria. Autotrophic bacteria feeds on the light and inorganics, the heterotrophic bacteria feeds on the algae and autotrophs, which allow them all to have a more "complete" and natural environment.

 

[srusso]

A heterotroph is an organism that cannot fix carbon and uses organic carbon for growth.[1] This contrasts with autotrophs, such as plants and algae, which can use energy from sunlight (photoautotrophs) or inorganic compounds (lithoautotrophs) to produce organic compounds such as carbohydrates, fats, and proteins from inorganic carbon dioxide. These reduced carbon compounds can be used as an energy source by the autotroph and provide the energy in food consumed by heterotrophs.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterotroph

 

[srusso]

Heterotrophs, by consuming reduced carbon compounds, are able to use all the energy that they obtain from food for growth and reproduction, unlike autotrophs, which must use some of their energy for carbon fixation. Heterotrophs are unable to make their own food, however, and whether using organic or inorganic energy sources, they can die from a lack of food. This applies not only to animals and fungi but also to bacteria.[2]

 

[SPotter]

Sold as Sodium Free table salt alternatives I believe will be our answer...
Or other health food supplements..

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Potassium-Chloride-Powder-8-oz-227-g/777?=ppnshpng&at=0

http://www.alsosalt.com/nosalt.html

http://www.wegmans.com/webapp/wcs/s...toreId=10052&catalogId=10002&productId=351678

I also found this from Randi...

I would like to know what would be a good maintenance formula that can be used to dose on a daily basis rather than waiting for depletion and then bringing that level back up again. Based on my what I have been adding my system needs 40ml's every other day of the brightwell to maintain 390-400. So I guess my question would be, how much of lets say the Iherb product do I need to mix with a gallon of rodi to achieve the level I need to maintain my tank at the desired level.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Spotter, are you talking about 40ml of the liquid solution? If you're using that much, why not buy the -P version?

 

[SPotter]

I will take a look at that.

 

[ehaleyjr18]

First attempt at ATS.

First attempt at ATS.

Here is my first effort to reduce the algae in my FO display tanks. I have yet to establish correct flow as I just installed today(9-27-12). I also need some adjustments to light angles. I have 120 gals. display with 30 gal. sump. My screen is 10.5" x15.0" with 120 watts per each side. Please give me your ideas as this is just a prototype.

 

[JohnnyB in SD]

Potassium testing & dosing

Potassium testing & dosing

I've looked at the water softener products, and the price is extremely economical. However, I've seen some negative reviews on their purity, and quite frankly don't trust their consistency of ingredients.

From the products I've been looking at, this one seems like a good choice. Essentially pharmaceutical grade, has 0.5% Magnesium Carbonate as a flow agent, shouldn't be any problem in a saltwater aquarium.
http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Potassium-Chloride-Powder-8-oz-227-g/777

Randy HF calculates 72 grams will raise 100gl by 100ppm
Posts 92 & 93:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957770&page=4

To raise 100 gallons by 100 ppm, you need 38 grams of potassium, or 72 grams of potassium chloride

If you buy five bottles (1135 gr) it's just over $20 and qualifies for free shipping. I actually found some at a local healthfood retailer to try it out. You could search for distributors in your area from the manufacturers web site.


I'm still looking for a better K test kit. ELos reviews indicate it is almost as bad as KZ to interpret results. Salifert seems to have a clear endpoint compared to the others. See the March 2012 reef builders review.

 

[SPotter]

Im going to try the Brightwell-P Potassium dry additive. If my math is correct and if I only need to add 40ml every other day to maintain 390-400, the 600g container will last me well over a year. At $17 for the 600g container I think I will go with one thats made for the hobby. I will report back how its working for me.

 

[JohnnyB in SD]

Do you know if that's a mixture of Potassium Chloride & Potassium Sulfate? I would think that's better than pure KCl3
The only K additive I've found at my LFS's is the Brightwell liquid, goes for $17+ for 500ml. Hasn't done jack to raise my levels after 2 bottles. I'll have to look for that powder online.

 

[SPotter]

Do you know if that's a mixture of Potassium Chloride & Potassium Sulfate? I would think that's better than pure KCl3
The only K additive I've found at my LFS's is the Brightwell liquid, goes for $17+ for 500ml. Hasn't done jack to raise my levels after 2 bottles. I'll have to look for that powder online.

The bottles says its water K Chloride and K Sulfate.

How much were you adding daily? I followed the advanced directions.....
If the initial [K+] in the aquarium is below 390 ppm, add this product at the maximum rate of 10 ml per 20 US-gallons daily until the potassium concentration measures between 390 - 410 ppm, then dose daily or weekly as needed (see below).

I estimate my net volume to be around 400g so I dosed 200ml a day and it took 4 days to get it to 400ppm. I bought the 2 liter bottle and used a little less than half of it to get it to that level and had about 1200 ml left which should last me about 2 months based on my current dosing needs for it. Im all for saving money when it can be saved but there are certain things that I will defer to the pre-packaged version.

 

[myfin]

Have you checked out potassium carbonate, as potassium additive.
I've used a liquid fertilizer in my tank.

 

[JohnnyB in SD]

SPotter reply:

SPotter reply:

I didn't even know there was a powder until you said something. Obviously more economical than liquid, gotta get me some.
I was adding 100ml almost daily, bottle says 1ml raises 1gl by 21ppm. I figure raising 240gl by 150ppm should use about 1700ml. I've dumped 1000ml in so far.
That KZ test kit is a problem, really difficult to read a result. I'm going to try a Salifert to determine when I hit 390-400 and monitor depletion from there.

I should be harvesting the LED scrubber tonight, see how it's looking. I was expecting it to really kick @$$, but results dropped off after a promising start.

You notice anything different yet, now that you're up to 400ppm?
What did you measure as your low point before you began dosing?
Which kit you test with?

 

[JohnnyB in SD]

Have you checked out potassium carbonate, as potassium additive.
I've used a liquid fertilizer in my tank.

I'm not a chemist, but a trusted one around RC says that would effect alkalinity:

Why not just use some buffer for K+ additions like potassium bicarbonate or potassium carbonate, if one feels a need to add K+ ?

Where would folks obtain that cheaply?

If you need a big boost in K+, that would boost alkalinity quite a bit.

I personally don't want to risk introducing another variable into the whole equation. Is more than my mind can handle. But, it might be worth looking at once you're at a "maintenance dosing level" and not a "dose rapid to reach normal" levels situation.