Algae Scrubber Basics

Well one really doesn't have anything to do with the other if your return pump supplies way too much flow for the scrubber, wouldn't you just run the scrubber on a dedicated pump? Of maybe a tap off the return line?

what i ment was if the return pump is approx 10times, will it evvect the scrubber thats connected in the sump with another pump jus for scrubber (35gphpi) not the straight overflow scrubber......

another: can i use a 2" pipe as its best coz it will never get clogged... if i go for a direct overflow scrubber.......?
 
Return pump has nothing to do with the scrubber if you are feeding the scrubber by a separate pump, it will not affect it at all, I can't see how it ever could.

The diameter of the pipe has little to do with the algae scrubber causing or not causing a clog. As you stated, this only allows a snail to go down the pipe without clogging it. Personally I would put an intake strainer on the pipe to prevent that.

The method of inserting the screen into the slot pipe is what is going to make a difference with any direct feed system. If you insert the screen such that it makes full contact with the inside of the top edge of the pipe, then you have created a situation where something (like an anemone that went down the overflow) could get snagged on the screen and block the flow, at least partially. If you only insert the screen into the slot such that it is sticking up only a few rows worth of screen material into the pipe, then the pipe is clear and whatever makes it's way down to the slot pipe will just get pushed to the end of the pipe.

As far as algae growing into the slot and blocking flow, i have never heard of this occurring and causing a tank overflow. As algae grows on the screen near the slot, it would start to block flow. This would force the water to back up into the standpipe above it, which would increase the head pressure on the screen. This additional pressure prevents algae from further growth into the slot pipe. So it's like a built-in control system.
 
Return pump has nothing to do with the scrubber if you are feeding the scrubber by a separate pump, it will not affect it at all, I can't see how it ever could.

The diameter of the pipe has little to do with the algae scrubber causing or not causing a clog. As you stated, this only allows a snail to go down the pipe without clogging it. Personally I would put an intake strainer on the pipe to prevent that.

The method of inserting the screen into the slot pipe is what is going to make a difference with any direct feed system. If you insert the screen such that it makes full contact with the inside of the top edge of the pipe, then you have created a situation where something (like an anemone that went down the overflow) could get snagged on the screen and block the flow, at least partially. If you only insert the screen into the slot such that it is sticking up only a few rows worth of screen material into the pipe, then the pipe is clear and whatever makes it's way down to the slot pipe will just get pushed to the end of the pipe.

As far as algae growing into the slot and blocking flow, i have never heard of this occurring and causing a tank overflow. As algae grows on the screen near the slot, it would start to block flow. This would force the water to back up into the standpipe above it, which would increase the head pressure on the screen. This additional pressure prevents algae from further growth into the slot pipe. So it's like a built-in control system.

thanks... i now got my answer....
 
Minimizing space

Minimizing space

What is the optimum distance to mount 3w LEDs (mounted 1.75" on center) from the screen if you use a diffuser?
I'd like to get them about 2"
 
I find that 2" with the diffuser at 1 works well. This allows the light to spread a little before hitting the diffuser, then scatter a little afterwards.
 
I'm replacing my current drain line with one that includes a backup. This runs off a reef octopus overflow with a herbie mod. The flex pvc on the right will connect to my existing ATS and the left side will be my backup. The main line will include a true union ball valve and I'll include a couple other unions for maintenance. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
 

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Good timing. I just wrote this up and posted it on another site:


I have fielded this question many times and answered it verbally, but finally got around to making a few sketches.

The question is, if I feed my scrubber directly from the overflow, how do I ensure that I don't cause my tank to overflow if the slot pipe clogs?

If you are running your scrubber from the siphon line of a BeanAnimal 3-pipe system, you already have a 2nd and 3rd pipe, and you have no worries, and can ignore this post. If you are running it from a Herbie, you may or may not be able to do this due to the inclusion of a siphon break, but your secondary line is your backup (if appropriately sized).

The first thing to address here is that I personally have never heard of anyone having this issue due to algae growing into the slot, assuming their slot is cut to the appropriate width (an overly narrow slot will inherently restrict flow). The reason is that as algae grows into the slot, water backs up in the pipe causing head pressure. This pressure forces water through the slot harder, which inhibits algae from growing further into the slot. Basically it's like a built-in control system. SM described that to me early on in my scrubbing days and it is 100% true.

The real concern is when something makes it's way down the overflow and blocks the slot. If your screen is inserted into the slot such that it touches in inside of the top edge of the pipe, you create a divider in the pipe upon which something like a snail or anemone (or small dead fish) could potentially block the flow. If the screen is only inserted such that it sticks up a little bit, whatever finds it's way to the slot pipe might get pushed to the end, but could still partially block flow. Either way, unlike a standard overflow drain pipe, you have a restricted outlet instead of an open pipe. Not that an open pipe cannot clog either - any overflow system is prone to Murphy's Law.

Here are 2 sketches that show the overflow bypass method of helping to prevent disaster:

The first is for a sump-based setup (shown with a bottom-drain / drilled tank)

BypassSump.jpg


Second is for a remote sump (in this instance, a basement)

Bypass.jpg


The horizontal pipe should be as low as possible. The standpipe should extend up as high as possible, then elbow over to a tee which goes up a size or two. That tee is open on top as an anti-siphon break (not really necessary now that I think about it, but I'm not going to re-do the drawing now!!) and then the bypass standpipe extends to the sump.

The concept here is to allow the head pressure to build up. If you were to simple put a tee in the horizontal line with the side outlet pointing up and then put in a double-elbow to route the water down, that setup will quickly start to flow water as algae grows into the slot, and as there is no head pressure to prevent further growth, you will bypass the scrubber completely in no time.

The external standpipe allows for full blockage of the slot pipe while maintaining the overflow rate from the tank, preventing the tank from overflowing. The catch is that when the bypass is operating (slot clogged), the maximum flow rate of the system is limited by the level difference between the maximum tank water level and the high point level of the bypass elbow. This flow rate can be calculated using BeanAnimal's Hydraulics for the Aquarist Calculator

I should note that I have not personally tried this, so there may be a need to keep the elbow-to-tee transition a little lower that you think for an additional safety factor. The biggest thing to remember is that your bypass flow rate will be reduced, and you should test the system by shutting off the flow to the scrubber to simulate a full blockage and verify that your tank doesn't overflow.
 
My scrubber "doin work"
3 weeks in.. this is day 3 after being "harvested" its a good 1/4" thick already.
-10" x 10" screen
-17W (65W equiv) 2700k LED floodlight bulb

Got a 20G macro tank fed from the return manifold that I put a big horizontal slot overflow in the glass on the end and the water flows out of there down the screen and into the 40B sump. The screen just rests on an acrylic "trough" I made as a "slide" for the water from one tank to another.

Its finally producing now as I just added more water flow via another outlet on the reactor and moved the light to exactly 4" from the screen.
full shot too from when I was setting the tank up..you can see the "slide" in the middle near the bright light and can sorta see how it goes from one tank to the other.

need more results data.. but my nitrates have dropped 20ppm from 10 days ago. (I'm a little crazy and let them get to 80 in my quest for "no water changes ever") Now they are dropping quick..
 

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Wcs are a not just to to get no3 down, its to replenish whats lost.... if u using supplements, then i guess u wont need WC......
 
My scrubber "doin work"
3 weeks in.. this is day 3 after being "harvested" its a good 1/4" thick already.
-10" x 10" screen
-17W (65W equiv) 2700k LED floodlight bulb

Got a 20G macro tank fed from the return manifold that I put a big horizontal slot overflow in the glass on the end and the water flows out of there down the screen and into the 40B sump. The screen just rests on an acrylic "trough" I made as a "slide" for the water from one tank to another.

Its finally producing now as I just added more water flow via another outlet on the reactor and moved the light to exactly 4" from the screen.
full shot too from when I was setting the tank up..you can see the "slide" in the middle near the bright light and can sorta see how it goes from one tank to the other.

need more results data.. but my nitrates have dropped 20ppm from 10 days ago. (I'm a little crazy and let them get to 80 in my quest for "no water changes ever") Now they are dropping quick..

I'm surprised you are getting that much growth with that little light. 10 x 10 horizontal (according to the 'guidelines') would be equivalent to a 5x5 double-lit vertical (in terms of scrubbing power), which would require 25W of total light (actualy wattage is all the matters). The horizontal 10x10 you are running needs 1.5x the light of the equivalent vertical, so more like 40W - more than double what you are running.

But...if it works, it works! I like to see horizontal screens now and then. Yours looks like it's growing very nicely - lots of green!
 
I'm surprised you are getting that much growth with that little light. 10 x 10 horizontal (according to the 'guidelines') would be equivalent to a 5x5 double-lit vertical (in terms of scrubbing power), which would require 25W of total light (actualy wattage is all the matters). The horizontal 10x10 you are running needs 1.5x the light of the equivalent vertical, so more like 40W - more than double what you are running.

But...if it works, it works! I like to see horizontal screens now and then. Yours looks like it's growing very nicely - lots of green!

Pretty sure those "guidelines" are based on CFL wattage.. Where a 23W CFL is a equivalent to a 65W incandescent (or something like that) and my 17W LED bulb is also stated as a 65W incandescent equivalent. And I wasn't getting nearly that growth when I had the bulb only 1" higher than it is now. And as you can see I do get some cyano growth there.. Only there thank god..none in the display.

But yes.. It WORKS.. and is growing like crazy now.

And yes I will do NO water changes ever and will only dose cal/alk/mag and hope any other trace elements are added through the food I add. Might look at strontium and maybe iron or whatever dosing if needed.
 
Would you recommend a algae scrubber for a 400 gal reef with a 110 gal sump? If so do I run a refugium or would a scrubber be enough?
 
Most people here would say an ATS is far more effective at exporting nutrients than a fuge.
I ran my first ATS with a fuge on a 100gl DT, mostly as an experiment. The ATS eventually out competed the Chaeto. Because it would have been difficult to remove the fuge, it ended up being a very dirty sand bed with some unusual creatures burrowing around.
I upgraded from that setup to a 180gl reef over a 100gl predator tank, sharing a 20gl sump. Significant bioload. No fuge, just two 12x18 ATS on the side of sump & a small GFO reactor.
Predator tank or a huge fuge? For me, I can make better use of space with an ATS than a refugium.
 
What is the best scrubber design? What size mesh and pump for a 500 gallon? Where is the best place to buy the mesh?
 
AllYouGuys: Checkout the sunroom reef on advancedaquarist, uses ATS. I've seen him somewhere before, I think a TOTM.

CDog: Plastic canvas #7 is standard material to grow algae on. kcress has used velcro hooks in a horizontal setup. I'm thinking of trying them in a larger build currently in planning stage.
FloydR has links to summary information in his signature, start there.
 
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