Algae Scrubber Basics

[Arn24]

Thanks for advice! I've got plenty of room for blue LEDs as well. As for the 3D, maybe KISS is the way to go here.

 

[callsign4223]

Ok, another question now.

I have had the scrubber up and running for about 5 days now and my sump and tank are starting to smell like a cesspit. It's getting bad enough in the sump area that I don't even wanna open the cabinet to look under there anymore. Is this normal? Is it just a phase that I have to deal with and it will get better shortly or is going to stay like this?

 

[Brummie]

Algae Scrubber Basics

Ok, another question now.

I have had the scrubber up and running for about 5 days now and my sump and tank are starting to smell like a cesspit. It's getting bad enough in the sump area that I don't even wanna open the cabinet to look under there anymore. Is this normal? Is it just a phase that I have to deal with and it will get better shortly or is going to stay like this?

No. Not normal, something else is going on. You got a pic of your set-up?

 

[callsign4223]

Here are some pictures.

 

[gb530]

I would get rid of the plastic wrap. If you are going to use it, I recommend cutting it down to 1" as Floyd recommended.

 

[callsign4223]

Without the wrap it sprays everywhere. This was the second attempt at the plastic wrap, the first ending in a wadded up ball of plastic wrap. I'm sure as I get more practice at putting it on it will get neater. The smell started yesterday before the wrap was on there. It has been getting steadily stronger.

 

[SantaMonica]

Smell is from algae that is exposed to air. There should be none exposed to air.

 

[the green goby]

My green algae is turning white every time I clean it and takes awhile to grow back now. Ive tried cleaning with my fingers, credit card, and razor blade(all on different occasions). I even clean my screen in tank water.

Any clues on whats going on here.

Here is the growth Im getting but it takes awhile to get to this point.

 

[gb530]

Without the wrap it sprays everywhere. This was the second attempt at the plastic wrap, the first ending in a wadded up ball of plastic wrap. I'm sure as I get more practice at putting it on it will get neater. The smell started yesterday before the wrap was on there. It has been getting steadily stronger.

It's true to have some protection when first coming out of the PVC to prevent growth around the outlet line and water splashing. However, I would cut a lot of that back if it were me. I also like to use something that light can't penetrate so growth around the pipe doesn't affect the flow.

As for the smell, I can't help you there... Sorry

 

[gb530]

Smell is from algae that is exposed to air. There should be none exposed to air.

Really? This makes no sense to me. Could you please explain?

My entire screen is exposed to air and it only smells like fresh growing algae.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I would get rid of the plastic wrap. If you are going to use it, I recommend cutting it down to 1" as Floyd recommended.

I've never said not to drape the entire screen. Many to that with good results. Draping the top 1" of the screen is the "minimum" to protect against streamers and spray.

Usually smell is due to flow being too low. What is your measured or calculated flow rate? What pump are you using and what is your vertical head?

Brand new screen sometimes do go through an initial growth phase where there is a smell. It's been a while but I do recall this on one occasion. But it will definitely go away, be assured of that.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

My green algae is turning white every time I clean it and takes awhile to grow back now. Ive tried cleaning with my fingers, credit card, and razor blade(all on different occasions). I even clean my screen in tank water.

Any clues on whats going on here.

Here is the growth Im getting but it takes awhile to get to this point.

That growth cretainly looks better than these previous pics below:

January

Yesterday. It has almost doubled in growth area since last week.

If I had to guess, I would say that the white growth is because of too much light in relation to nutrients delivered. White is the extreme end of this issue. I get this on one of my "test" units in front of the LEDs when I let it grow way too long and the flow gets really stagnant.

How long are you waiting between cleanings?

When you clean, how vigorously do you scrape?

Is there anything left in the holes when you are done cleaning or does is all come out?

 

[Brummie]

Algae Scrubber Basics

Without the wrap it sprays everywhere. This was the second attempt at the plastic wrap, the first ending in a wadded up ball of plastic wrap. I'm sure as I get more practice at putting it on it will get neater. The smell started yesterday before the wrap was on there. It has been getting steadily stronger.

How old is the tank? Looks like a newish set-up. Can't see any skimmer or carbon? Just a punt - Perhaps the extra bubbles from the screen is making it smell. I can't see how the tiny amount of algae/cyano you've got on the screen can be causing it tbh

 

[callsign4223]

I've never said not to drape the entire screen. Many to that with good results. Draping the top 1" of the screen is the "minimum" to protect against streamers and spray.

Usually smell is due to flow being too low. What is your measured or calculated flow rate? What pump are you using and what is your vertical head?

Brand new screen sometimes do go through an initial growth phase where there is a smell. It's been a while but I do recall this on one occasion. But it will definitely go away, be assured of that.

I am running a mag drive 9.5. It states 950 GPH, I'm assuming that is at 0 head. I have about 5 feet of head on the pump and according to the reef central calculator I should be running about 700 GPH with the head. The scrubber has a 10 inch slot.


"How old is the tank? Looks like a newish set-up. Can't see any skimmer or carbon? Just a punt - Perhaps the extra bubbles from the screen is making it smell. I can't see how the tiny amount of algae/cyano you've got on the screen can be causing it tbh "

The tank is about 3 months old, fish in it for about 1 month. It has 1 chromis and 1 foxface in a 110 gallon tank. The only filtration it has right now is the scrubber and live rock. An urgent need to replace my sewer line at my rent house ate up all the funds I had saved up for the skimmer, controller, and LEDS.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I am running a mag drive 9.5. It states 950 GPH, I'm assuming that is at 0 head. I have about 5 feet of head on the pump and according to the reef central calculator I should be running about 700 GPH with the head. The scrubber has a 10 inch slot.

Ok, so you are running the scrubber off the overflow, correct?

Here is your error in calculation.

The Danner Mag-drive pumps are rated based on using the correct outlet plumbing. If you read the instructions, you will see that this is 2x the outlet size. In the case of the 9.5, this means you would have to use 1.5" return plumbing to get the rated output per the curve.

If you are using 3/4" return plumbing, which I assume you are because of the corner overflow and loc-line return showing in your last pic, that reduces the actual flow by more than half, due to the physics of flow dynamics. So if you are calculating 700 GPH based on the curve data, I would be willing to bet good money that you are actually at more like 300 GPH if you measured it.

This in and of itself is not likely to be the root cause of the smell. IMO it's a phase. If you could increase the flow, that might help, but it will eventually go away. Part of the reason also is that you have a large screen and little load to "support" it. Once you get past the diatom phase, and you get GHA growing, your screen will not smell while it's running. But that requires that you have enough nutrients to grow all across the large screen.

Did you size your screen according to the tank volume? This is how it appears. Looks like 10 x 10, which is like 8 cube/day on the feeding guideline, but you're probably barely feeding 1 cube/day for now. What I would do is cut a new slot pipe that is 5-6" wide and concentrate all the flow down to that narrower screen, which will increase your per-inch flow rate and give you a more properly sized screen for your tank, which should mean you will grow GHA sooner.

 

[callsign4223]

So I have basically oversized the scrubber for anything I am likely to need in the immediate future? I basically made the largest scrubber that would fit sideways in my sump on the idea that bigger is better. I can easily pick up parts to shrink the scrubber and cut down the total size of the screen.

Also, I am running 1 inch ID vinyl tubing to 1 inch pvc returns. The return in the tank is 2 locline returns. Does that drastically change the flow calculations?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I will certainly make it better. If that is the case then I would say you are probably more like 65% of the curve flow (that's an educated guess - I didn't run a flow calc) but that puts it at more like 400-450 GPH, which really should be plenty to cover a 10" wide screen.

Before you make any big changes, I would measure the flow. The way to do this, if you can easily, is to remove the slot pipe and plumb in a temporary pipe that would just open-dump into the sump. Fill a pitcher of a known volume and time how long it takes to fill, then do the math to convert to GPH.

For instance, if you use a 1/2 gallon pitcher and it takes 10 seconds to fill it, that's 0.5G/10s, then convert the units from per second to per hour (multiply by 3600, which is 60 sec/min * 60 min/hr) and you would get 180 GPH (0.05 g/s * 3600 s/hr).

 

[callsign4223]

The scrubber is connected via a barbed fitting to vinyl tubing long enough to reach the sump so it should be easy enough to get a flow test done by removing the scrubber and running the tubing straight into the sump.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

So I have basically oversized the scrubber for anything I am likely to need in the immediate future? I basically made the largest scrubber that would fit sideways in my sump on the idea that bigger is better.

Bigger is not necessarily better. What you're shooting for is the right size, and my current recommendation on this is not to oversize the screen any more than 2x what you feed. If you go much past that, growth starts to change.

Also your tank is very new. I have found that as a system (tank) gets established (6 months to a year, depending on many factors) then growth really starts to settle in and become consistent. Until then you may see various phases of growth, and it's not much use in trying to chase them around, kind of like chasing pH.

So in terms of "near future", I don't know what your plans are, but making slow changes in general is usually best, meaning over the course of the next 1-2 years your feeding rate will likely not reach 8 cubes/day. That is a ton of food for a 100g. I would say that you might plan for 2 cubes/day, maybe 4, within a year. Then, your 8 cube/day unit might work much better. That is also assuming that your lighting matches up with your flow and nutrient load. If you are low on light intensity, then this limits your screen filtration capacity, and also can mean that you might only get green in certain areas of the screen. So essentially your screen size would not be the driving factor, your lighting would be. I hope that makes sense.

 

[callsign4223]

I don't see myself going over 4 cubes ever. My current stocking plan for this tank when it's complete is the chromis, the fox face, 2-3 engineer gobies, a watchman goby, maybe a flame angel. Beyond that I am really more interested in the inverts.

Edit: Oh yeah, and hopefully eventually a mandarin a couple years down the road.