Algae Scrubber Basics

[karimwassef]

There's no attachment that completely eliminates the interface effect. I tried many options

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5446_zpsyfg9cyy7.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5446_zpsyfg9cyy7.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5446_zpsyfg9cyy7.jpg"/></a>

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And then settled on a double capped tiny zip tie. I cut the heads off and use a straight strip with two caps to line everything up

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This had the smallest profile and was still rigid. I also wanted to be able to detach the sheets individually

I don't know how well it'll work at my very high flow rate. I'll experiment and report.

I could glue them with epoxy and then sand it down but then they're not detachable.

I could sew them end to end but the interface and nylon thread could make the water jump anyway. Also makes separation more difficult.

 

[jerseypete]

There's no attachment that completely eliminates the interface effect. I tried many options

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5446_zpsyfg9cyy7.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5446_zpsyfg9cyy7.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5446_zpsyfg9cyy7.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5444_zpszpbsikvc.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5444_zpszpbsikvc.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5444_zpszpbsikvc.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5425_zpsuzxdaaxd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5425_zpsuzxdaaxd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5425_zpsuzxdaaxd.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5423_zpssvswgfo9.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5423_zpssvswgfo9.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5423_zpssvswgfo9.jpg"/></a>

And then settled on a double capped tiny zip tie. I cut the heads off and use a straight strip with two caps to line everything up

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5441_zpsd81xov77.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5441_zpsd81xov77.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5441_zpsd81xov77.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5442_zpsb0b0xiip.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5442_zpsb0b0xiip.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5442_zpsb0b0xiip.jpg"/></a>

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This had the smallest profile and was still rigid. I also wanted to be able to detach the sheets individually

I don't know how well it'll work at my very high flow rate. I'll experiment and report.

I could glue them with epoxy and then sand it down but then they're not detachable.

I could sew them end to end but the interface and nylon thread could make the water jump anyway. Also makes separation more difficult.

Maybe try fishing line. Butt them together. No overlap. Use it like a needled and thread. Would take awhile. But wouldn't stick out that far.

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[karimwassef]

Yes. Nylon thread with butted ends could work but they won't be individually detachable or rigid.

I could use the fishing line and then epoxy or superglue to make it rigid, then sand it down smooth to avoid the water splashing out. I could get it rigid and smooth, but not detachable.

If the current design doesn't work, I'll try something like that.

 

[karimwassef]

Keep in mind the scale of the effort

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/B102BDF1-A4B7-4079-A53F-15BD38443116_zpsevoikpxi.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/B102BDF1-A4B7-4079-A53F-15BD38443116_zpsevoikpxi.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo B102BDF1-A4B7-4079-A53F-15BD38443116_zpsevoikpxi.jpg"/></a>

That's a lot of stitches!

 

[jerseypete]

Here is the start of mine and just a quick question. Does it NEED to have a drain in the bottom? Or can it just have a side drain?

Just reading this. I cut 2 holes for 2 1/2 bulkheads. Thinking I could run line into sump to keep noise down. It was loud as hell. Someone else said leave the bottom open. I had algae growing in sump cause the extra light. What I wound up doing. Wish I took pic. I made a small trough under the scrubber. Maybe 4 in wide and 1/2 in high. Now with two 1.5 in holes drain into it. Then it's like a water fall. And I placed a piece of thick foam underneath where the water falls. Dead silent. So now with the bottom holes no light will shine through at all..

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[jerseypete]

Just reading this. I cut 2 holes for 2 1/2 bulkheads. Thinking I could run line into sump to keep noise down. It was loud as hell. Someone else said leave the bottom open. I had algae growing in sump cause the extra light. What I wound up doing. Wish I took pic. I made a small trough under the scrubber. Maybe 4 in wide and 1/2 in high. Now with two 1.5 in holes drain into it. Then it's like a water fall. And I placed a piece of thick foam underneath where the water falls. Dead silent. So now with the bottom holes no light will shine through at all..View attachment 351829

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[Floyd R Turbo]

Working on "the beast".

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/B102BDF1-A4B7-4079-A53F-15BD38443116_zpsevoikpxi.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/B102BDF1-A4B7-4079-A53F-15BD38443116_zpsevoikpxi.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo B102BDF1-A4B7-4079-A53F-15BD38443116_zpsevoikpxi.jpg"/></a>

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What concerns me the most here is that your slot pipe runs all the way to the edge of the sump below. This leaves no room for error, you can't have any flow that creeps along the pipe or arcs off the end of the screen. So please tell me that you're going to have some kind of enclosure for the screen, at least on the ends...?

Also that slot is really long, I would anticipate that it will pinch closed over time. But that's just a simple trim job

 

[salty joe]

That's a lot of stitches!

have you considered welding with heat?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

If you're tried that with LLDPE then you would know the answer...it's a total PITA, the stuff doesn't melt easily and then when it does, it just turns into a mess

 

[salty joe]

I've never welded LLDPE, but it is weldable.

 

[jerseypete]

well lights are in finally. It's dead silent. I'm happy. No light shining into the sump.

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[karimwassef]

What concerns me the most here is that your slot pipe runs all the way to the edge of the sump below. This leaves no room for error, you can't have any flow that creeps along the pipe or arcs off the end of the screen. So please tell me that you're going to have some kind of enclosure for the screen, at least on the ends...?

Also that slot is really long, I would anticipate that it will pinch closed over time. But that's just a simple trim job

I'm running all the way to the end and there will be plastic splash guards on both ends (shower curtains... Yes, really )

I'm also considering changing the end caps to elbow and then framing both ends with slotted vertical PVC channels to contain edge flow.

Finally, since the entire assembly turns with a 1" union, I can turn it 10-20 degrees if absolutely necessary. I just need to adjust the light locations.

How do I avoid pinching ? Is it something that I can only do after the first cut (iteratively)?

I'm planning on using a dremmel wheel to cut the slit at about 0.25" ... Is that about right?

I was thinking of intentionally creating controlled pinch points every 6". The idea is to slide the screen between the PVC pinched ends during installation:

/:----6"----:----6"----:----6"----:----6"----:----6"----:----6"----:\

Where / and \ are the end frame elbows and : are the intentional 1/4" pinch points.

 

[karimwassef]

Also, the "beast" is my third ATS experiment. The first was my overflow weir ATS (free flow, free light):

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5261_zpsirsdxtfi.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5261_zpsirsdxtfi.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5261_zpsirsdxtfi.jpg"/></a>

 

[karimwassef]

And the second is my floating sump screen ATS. I skipped over that one so let me share that design for feedback too:

First, I have a surge that creates a significant change (up to 3") in all tank water levels. So, I created a plastic hinge and eggcrate platform that floats with the water surface. This results is a shore-like wave effect where the screen alternates between being fully submerged for seconds, to bobbing on the surface with water flowing above and below, to nearly dry...

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5518_zpsqbhtiji5.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5518_zpsqbhtiji5.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5518_zpsqbhtiji5.jpg"/></a>

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I also found these nifty eggcrate plastic clips to make removing the screens easier on the fly:

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5511_zps8jxqouty.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5511_zps8jxqouty.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5511_zps8jxqouty.jpg"/></a>

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I'm still keeping my chaeto in an eggcrate box (on the right), so it's a shared zone

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5521_zpsn3j1zonx.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5521_zpsn3j1zonx.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5521_zpsn3j1zonx.jpg"/></a>

And some Xenia found its way down here too. So when I redid the sump, I put them on dedicated eggcrate platforms too (getting crowded down there):

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5524_zpsc4fbbbsw.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5524_zpsc4fbbbsw.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5524_zpsc4fbbbsw.jpg"/></a>

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So it's now a triple shared scrub zone... Actually five zones if you include the compartment DSB and crypto zone hidden in the dark low flow section under the scrubbers.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5588_zpsj2mzxyx0.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5588_zpsj2mzxyx0.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5588_zpsj2mzxyx0.jpg"/></a>

 

[karimwassef]

Here it is after a week

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5587_zpsukiqbjwo.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5587_zpsukiqbjwo.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5587_zpsukiqbjwo.jpg"/></a>

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The Xenia scrubbers are growing a little too fast

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_5586_zpspg8ydx3u.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_5586_zpspg8ydx3u.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5586_zpspg8ydx3u.jpg"/></a>

 

[karimwassef]

Sorry for the numerous posts. I have been working on these and traveling so this is a release of many weeks' worth of activity.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

How do I avoid pinching ? Is it something that I can only do after the first cut (iteratively)?

I'm planning on using a dremmel wheel to cut the slit at about 0.25" ... Is that about right?

I was thinking of intentionally creating controlled pinch points every 6". The idea is to slide the screen between the PVC pinched ends during installation:

/:----6"----:----6"----:----6"----:----6"----:----6"----:----6"----:\

Where / and \ are the end frame elbows and : are the intentional 1/4" pinch points.

I didn't quite follow the whole pinch points thingy.

But, 1/8" is your target slot width, 1/4" will end up with all the flow dumping out probably in the middle 1/2 of the screen leaving the outer 1/4 on each end pretty dry. But, maybe not, but your flow would have to be super huge.

If you meant that you would leave "bumps" on the cut slot that would hold the screen in place due to pinching of the pipe, yeah that would work, kind of using that pinching action to your advantage. Not sure exactly how that would turn out, i.e. how tight the pinch ends up being - might wear & tear your screen pulling it in and out.

Another option is to leave the pipe uncut every so often and then for the top edge of your screen you just notch it. So you have a 6" slot then a 1/8" uncut part, repeat. You don't need much of an uncut span to keep the pinching down.

 

[karimwassef]

hmmm.. hard to describe, so here's some pics instead

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zpspku2jslv.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zpspku2jslv.png" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpspku2jslv.png"/></a>

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[karimwassef]

My flow rate... It will vary between 2000 (normal) and ~3000gph (+surge).

Here it is under normal but only as a jet coming out of a 3/4" pipe. This is running open loop (pressure is just based on water level in the top 50gal tank), not forced pump pressure. I can convert this to closed loop to force the flow too.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/18D1FA61-258A-4669-A3A1-4F5D2995A2B5_zpsbbpgjghx.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/18D1FA61-258A-4669-A3A1-4F5D2995A2B5_zpsbbpgjghx.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 18D1FA61-258A-4669-A3A1-4F5D2995A2B5_zpsbbpgjghx.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/4C676269-56BB-449A-A512-9B32F421D6B6_zpse5td7ijc.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/4C676269-56BB-449A-A512-9B32F421D6B6_zpse5td7ijc.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 4C676269-56BB-449A-A512-9B32F421D6B6_zpse5td7ijc.jpg"/></a>

There is a real risk if the slit gets clogged that the back pressure could force the top tank to overflow. I haven't installed the emergency overflow pipe yet.

With this setup, I can dial the flow down to zero or swap out my backup pump and run on double surge to go up to 4000gph.

That's why I was thinking of 1/4"

Maybe I need two slotted pipes. One internal 1/2" with an 1/8" slit, and the external 1" pipe with 1/4" slit.

Or maybe drill holes in the internal pipe to ensure coverage.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

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We are on the exact same page

My flow rate... It will vary between 2000 (normal) and ~3000gph (+surge).

There is a real risk if the slit gets clogged that the back pressure could force the top tank to overflow. I haven't installed the emergency overflow pipe yet.

With this setup, I can dial the flow down to zero or swap out my backup pump and run on double surge to go up to 4000gph.

That's why I was thinking of 1/4"

Maybe I need two slotted pipes. One internal 1/2" with an 1/8" slit, and the external 1" pipe with 1/4" slit.

Or maybe drill holes in the internal pipe to ensure coverage.

I wouldn't be so much worried about the slot getting clogged unless something goes down the feed pipe.

If you're really worried, best move is an emergency drain, just a bulkhead and a little pipe and your worries are over.