Algae Scrubber Basics

[Floyd R Turbo]

So you use the gravel to keep the Alkalinity up instead of dosing?

I'm still not quite following one part of the design. If you have the intake chamber (1st) receiving free-flow, then that chambers is pumped out to the ATS screen, you're going to have difficulty balancing that level. It will either get sucked dry or will overflow into #2. It's next to impossible to balance a pump output to exactly the water input. So I would be interested to hear what you plan to do to solve that problem

Also, in the situation you describe where the ATS pump fails, and water then continues to run across it when #1 fills up and spills over, I don't understand that. Is this a single-sided screen, so the ATS lights are only on one side? It would have to be, otherwise you're essentially putting a light fixture in an enclosed box surrounded by water on all sides, which is inherently dangerous.

Also you mention several times "as you have shown" - what are you referring to here?

Still trying to wrap my head around this design. I need pictures!

 

[jake levi]

Hi Floyd

The as you have shown just referred to your previous posts,

you raise a good point on trying to balance the two pumps, I was thinking that fairly soon the divider between the first two sections would let the excess not pumped out of the first chamber to overflow into the 2nd, and see thats not the best option, I am thinking that your suggestion of all of the return line from the tanks go to the ATS. Simpler. Can then overflow to the Deep Gravel Bed and then under the divider to the sump to return to the tanks.

The lights would always be above the water, as much of the screen will be. So reconfiguring over the weekend. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[travis32]

Well, I was questioning why you keep saying the flow should be 35gph. I'm not sure I fully understand that number, but how do you determine if it's 35gph across the screen or not. If say the pump is rated between 340 and 475 gph?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

You need to have about 35 GPH per inch of screen width, because that is the tried-and-tested optimal flow rate for maximum growth and filtration. I can tell you from personal experience that it makes a long-term difference. The tank I was running had less tahn 20 GPH/inch and while it did a good job filtering in general, I couldn't knock the phosphates down fast enough, and when I had a problem with my top-off water due to snow melt runoff, phosphates spiked. When I re-did the plumbing to correct the flow problem (went from 380 to 760) I had a massive growth week and phosphates dropped down fast.

So in my experience, following the tried and true advice is a must. If you don't, you could be setting yourself up for failure, which is not what we want. The ATS has been through enough of that with people that don't build it correctly (sometimes on purpose) and then have a tank failure and blame it on the ATS. We want you to build it right, and have great success. Who wants a tank to crash anyways, right?

Anyways, if you have a 10 inch wide screen, you want 350 GPH of actual flow (not calculated flow).

The way you measure this is by simply filling up a container of known size and record the time it takes to fill. Do this at least a dozen times, then average out the times and extrapolate to GPH.

For instance, let's say it takes 3 seconds to fill a 0.5 gallon pitcher, on average. You want to convert this to Gallons Per Hour. The conversion goes:

(0.5 gallons / 3 seconds) x (3600 seconds / 1 hour) = GPH

 

[jake levi]

Hi Floyd

I appreciate your time that you and Russo put in on this, its a great help,

I am going to reconfigure mine, one pump, screen of 20" L and 10" W(vertical) , got the compact fluorescents yesterday, plug in strips, power cords, I am going to move the DSB(gravel actually) to a dedicated tank, and out of the sump. So the sump will have the ATS , where the gravel was after the ATS is live rock, and live rock in most of the tanks, tanks all BB, I am thinking that the 100 gal stock tank will have the 3 sections , with the ATS in the first , middle section live rock, and 3rd section the return pump , Iam guestimating at this time that the actual water in the sump with the return pump going will be ~ 45-50 gallons. If the pump stops the return lines will probably add about 25 gallons more including from the manifold above the tanks.

THis should be a simpler configuration. This system is small , ~ 200 gallons in breeder tanks, and a couple 55 gallon tanks, return pump will be 560gph. Can increase it to over 700 gph if needed.

The next system will be just over 500 gallons.

 

[travis32]

Thanks for the info, very helpful!! Being this is actually designed to be a return pump and one I used for my 55g tank. I would have to think this is close to 300-350 gph. It's minimum rating is 340gph. Max is 475gph. I'll test it sometime when I'm cleaning the screen next and see how long it takes to fill a 5 gallon bucket or something.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I found it easiest to test with a round 1/2 gallon pitcher, because that way you don't drain your sump in the process. But if you only run the ATS off the pump, then you can set the pump in a tub with the same water level as your sump and fill a larger bucket. The point is that you have to match the actual conditions in the tank. If you pump pushes from the sump up 4 feet, and it's max flow is 475, your head pressure and tubing diameter are going to affect the flow rate returning to the sump. So you need to measure the latter.

Based on your info in your profile, if you're running a 125 and 30G sump, you're feeding 2 returns off this pump? You're going to find that your pump is way, way undersized would be by guess. You will have a minimum of 4 feet of vertical head, a tee, and a 90 out to each jet, plus 6 feet horizontal. I think you'd be lucky to be getting 200 GPH out of that pump.

One of my customers has a 125 RR w/30 sump, about 4' vertical, 6' total horizontal, 1 tee, a a 90 at each jet. It's running a Mag 9.5 with 3/4" tubing and it gets 500 GPH. I plan to increase that by up sizing the return tubing, but even then I'll be lucky to get the anywhere near the 700 GPH at 6' head on their chart:

http://www.dannermfg.com/instructionsheets/ZG100.PDF

There is no minimum flow rate for any pump. If you put enough vertical head pressure on just about any pump (at least the type we use in aquariums) you will get zero flow. The Mag 9.5 zeroes out at 14 feet of head.

 

[klviper]

Here is my attempt at a turf scrubber... specs are

48" long x 24" tall..
(8) 54w t5 3000k bulbs on one side for now.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Sweet! Looks like you're using individual reflectors also. Unless you upgrade to an 1150 gallon system, that one should work fine!!!

Just make sure you have enough flow - it is critical to measure actual flow, so you want 48x35=1680 GPH on that sucker. That's some hefty flow. I suppose though if you only used one side, that side would be the only one really needing the flow, so you could get away with 840 GPH, if you were able to somehow restrict the flow to only one side of the screen. Difficult to do I would think.

 

[klviper]

Flow should not be an issue since it is being fed from a split of my main return which is putting out 5800 gph. Once the turf algae takes hold and I am seeing good results I will take my other tek-5 light fixture off of my refuge to light the other side.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I just saw your signature - 1,000 gallon setup? Pics?

 

[klviper]

I just saw your signature - 1,000 gallon setup? Pics?

Fish room is a bit of a mess with the changes I have been making but here ya go..

portion of the 450 display (sorry don't have a full main tank pic)

180 fuge

sink area

360 sump

skimmers

 

[madean]

Wow thats a little bit of heaven... Are you a master plumber now with all that plumbing hehe. Just curious as to how much water do changer klviper, and what kind of maintenance do you do a month and how much time does it take you monthly? I would think it a lot. If you converted solely to an ats system I would think you would need to ask your garbage service for another green bin with all the algea produced by the ats

 

[kdirk]

Anyone making their 1/8" slit a little bigger mine seems to hold back a little to much?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

If your pump is all the way open and your flow through the slot is too little, you will see your overflow chamber in your DT fill up higher than normal. I recently discovered this problem when I upgraded my return line hose to a larger size. The overflow chamber prior to that had an open standpipe, and the water level stayed at the level of the pipe opening.

After fixing the plumbing, the overflow chamber would fill all the way up as the week went by, and I eventually figured out that the slot was basically restricting flow. I also discovered that when I added water t the system, it would just push it up to the DT to keep the relative levels between the tanks the same. Big problem, easy to overflow the DT. So if that' what you're seeing, then you definitely need to widen the slot.

Today I took a tool and widened the slot. What I discovered was that the original slot that I cut was actually not quite 1/8" wide - it was closer to the thickness of the screen. This turned out to be OK at first, because I had miscalculated the flow of the pump, so the screen flow was still even and I got decent growth. But once I fixed that, the slot width issue came to bear.

Now it flows great with the pump wide open. It seems that 35 GPH/inch with a 1/8" slot (mine may be a hair wider now) is nearing the maximum flow that it can handle, at least, that's what I'm seeing. There's no harm in widening the slot a little bit if you are seeing the problem I described above. But, if you're not seeing that issue (return pump is higher flow than slot tube) do NOT widen the slot. You will end up with uneven flow, you will only get water cascading across the first part of the screen.

I saw this actually after I widened the slot and installed it, and turned it on with the pump throttled back. The farthest 1/3 of the screen got zero flow. I cracked the pump valve all the way open and the whole screen quickly got covered.

 

[kdirk]

Its run off its own pump three days after cleaning the screen i have dry spots on it.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I went back and looked at your build again. I can see from the pics that the flow looks a little thin. You might want to verify your flow rate. You can do this quite easily with your setup, just take your pump and plumbing out into a sink filled with water to about the same level as your sump and fill a pitcher with it, time it, and calculate your GPH. If you're getting your 35 GPH/in, then the problem is your slot. If you are not getting the flow, the problem is the pump.

When you say 'dry spots', do you mean that the water is not exiting the slot tube and coating the screen at the extreme ends? Or is it another type of dry spot? In front of the lamps?

 

[kdirk]

it looks like runs from top to bottom if i push the screen lightly then water runs down im going to open it up about 1/16"

 

[redneckgearhead]

Heres my second version. I based it on Floyds design. I am using a reflectors off of an old PC light that came with my tank. I got the ballast and bulbs from work. Im hoping it works well. Ive been battling HA for about 6-8 months now, to no avail. My first version worked but I had some safety concerns with it so I pulled it out. Ill post pics of the HA and tank tomorrow.

 

[Johnny C]

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