Algae Scrubber Basics

[srusso]

So It's been three weeks since I set up the Improved ATS for my 10 gallon. The screens are still only coated with brown slimy algae. Am I doing something wrong, or does it take longer for the real turf algae to come in?

Three weeks is normal for an over sized scrubber. Be sure your cleaning the screen every three days while you are getting brown growth. my scrubber is double the size needed for my tank and it has taken double the time to fully mature.

 

[dogstar74]

Three weeks is normal for an over sized scrubber. Be sure your cleaning the screen every three days while you are getting brown growth. my scrubber is double the size needed for my tank and it has taken double the time to fully mature.

I'm cleaning every other screen every three... ok four days. :mixed: I have two screens. It's good to hear that twice the surface area took you a little longer to mature, that's what I was suspecting is happening to mine. So I'll stick with it.

The good thing too, is that when I upgrade to my 29 gallon, then I'll have enough screen to just carry over to the new tank.

Cheers,
Aaron

 

[SaltwaterAdict]

You don't want "turf" per se. You want Green Hair Algae because it allows the light to transmit to the base easier.

It's not beyond the norm for you t not get much GHA in the first few weeks. You should see a little bit at least though. It will take several weeks before it really takes off. Just make sure you don't scrub the screen with a brush when you clean it, start by rinsing in room-temp gently running water, and maybe use your fingers (tips, not nails) to loosen and rinse away the brown stuff. Leave enough behind so that a 'base' doesn't have to form again. I'll post pics of my first 5-6 weeks in a bit



It depends on your definition of 'clear'. If you mean 'not yellow or brown' then this will do it. 'Murky' is relative, the non-clarity I referred to in my last couple posts was because of life in the water column, not hazy/whitish tinted water. The water in the tank I have the scrubber on has no tint to it if that helps. When I take a water sample in a 3.5 oz cup from each of the tanks I maintain, I can tell which one is from the scrubber tank because the other tanks have a light yellow/brown tint to the water, just in that little cup.



The Algae Scrubber will quickly out-compete the chaeto. You can run both, but once the screen matures it will wipe out the chaeto (and any other macros for that matter). They are both macros, the ATS just has the lights closer and the flow is more turbid, so it grows faster. This is also why it wipes out GHA in the DT, as long as the rocks aren't leeching phosphate (then it just takes longer)

That's really neat. You're saying the water with the algae scrubber is actually clearer than those without it. I'm really starting to believe the powers of scurbbers!

The only thing is why does it take so long to get going?? Is there a way to seed one screen with another one?

 

[dogstar74]

Here's a really wild idea. I have a 10 gallon in the house on the south side of the room. It sits directly under a window. I would easily run a pipe or hose out of the window and into a ATS that would be mounted on the side of my house. The ATS would face south all year, so it would be solar powered. What do you think of this design? The actual scrubber surface would be a cutting board not a screen.

 

[redneckgearhead]

Here's a really wild idea. I have a 10 gallon in the house on the south side of the room. It sits directly under a window. I would easily run a pipe or hose out of the window and into a ATS that would be mounted on the side of my house. The ATS would face south all year, so it would be solar powered. What do you think of this design? The actual scrubber surface would be a cutting board not a screen.

I'm not sure you could get the cutting board rough enough to get good algae growth. And if you live in Wyoming then I doubt you could leave it outside all year long. Doesn't it get pretty cold in Wyoming? Just saying. But you could leave it on the inside of the window and You might get enough sunlight to grow some algae. But I think you would need some screen on top of your cutting board to get the algae to stick. Good luck!

 

[srusso]

I'm cleaning every other screen every three... ok four days. :mixed: I have two screens. It's good to hear that twice the surface area took you a little longer to mature, that's what I was suspecting is happening to mine. So I'll stick with it.

The good thing too, is that when I upgrade to my 29 gallon, then I'll have enough screen to just carry over to the new tank.

Cheers,
Aaron

Yeah, my screen actually just, after 6 - 7 months matured to the point that it's now growing the ideal algae. Your screen will change algae types on its own, with each type comes even more filtering capacity. My scrubber is a little more then double sized. 13x12 inch for a 70 gallon. B/c of this fact I feel that I saw each algae type for a longer and more defined stage in growth.

From memory... I have enough posts about it that I can possibly track the timings better... But I should include I had been making design changes throughout building my scrubber.

Blown algae grew first, about 3 - 4 weeks after that I started getting spots of green appearing. The green spots where a bit harder to clean off so naturally more of the green algae grew back. Eventually it covered the entire screen and happen to be a dark powder algae. The powder algae lasted about 2 months. A mix of a weird jelly like algae began growing over the powder and after first seeing it, within one or two weeks it had covered the entire screen. This algae dominated for about 4 months. It hard to explain this algae. Very sponge like, gelatin, mixture of dark and light green, sticks solidly onto the screen. Comes off in sheets, and never got thicker then half an inch. Most recently my screen has been growing the same algae Floyd has pictured. The few new patches are quickly absorbing the N and P faster then the old algae can... The old algae is barely growing.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Check out the scrubber site, people have done solar scrubbers, under the "Algae Scrubbers" topic, then "Results of Successful Scrubbers" is the easiest way to find it.

http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8

I know there's a few out there, but they're normally for ponds and in year-round climates. Plus remember that the 18 hour light cycle doesn't get met by the solar cycle, so that may have to be supplemented (or just oversize the screen), plus the screen would need to be oversized for single-sided operation (or make a sunlight reflector). Would be a fun project though!

 

[srusso]

That's really neat. You're saying the water with the algae scrubber is actually clearer than those without it. I'm really starting to believe the powers of scurbbers!

The only thing is why does it take so long to get going?? Is there a way to seed one screen with another one?

People have tried seeding screens, it should work to some degree...
Once you have a properly setup scrubber and the screen has started to mature... You will never see nitrates or phosphates... That for some people, maybe cleaner water... Others have been successful using other equipment and getting the same zero nitrates and phosphates. So in the end clean water is clean water...

 

[Swanwillow]

Cutting boards DO work, if you put the time and energy into it. That said, I put a screen over mine. I keep thinking that I could remove the screen again... But I'm also impatient about it.

see?

That was a bad picture, lol. First set up. I DO have growth now (more light, more flow)\

My screen is 11"x6" horizontal technically, although its at a 45*'ish angle. One sided, on my 25 gallon

 

[TheFishMan65]

Turbo - that link is not working for me. Would you please take a look when you get a moment?

Thanks

 

[travis32]

I have excess hose going from my pump to the spray bar. It's clear flex hose. I'm noticing growth of different colors of algaes in the length of hose closest to the ATS lights. Should I be concerned about this or just extra macro filtering power?

Also, is it possible that someone could put together an ATS algae quick reference guide. Week 1-4 Algaes could be yellow /brown.
Week 5-6 Aglaes will most likely be
Month 2-4 Algaes will most likely be
Month 5-6 Algaes will most likely be

Some stages may be skipped depending on design, flow, lighting, etc.. .. .. etc.

A couple days after lights out period, I am noticing that my HA on one side of the tank is turning white. Algae on the other side of the tank is starting to turn, but remaining green for the most part. In a couple days I'll go in and start harvesting Hair algae again. I think the scrubber is finally starting to compete with the Macros in the display.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

That's because RC blocks links to other sites, but it seems to not be consistent from site to site. The Algae Scrubbers site seems to get blocked more consistently. Someone doesn't much like Santa Monica. It's an on and off thing. Apparently back on again. That's why I listed the directions to get to the page I was linking to. Go to algae scrubber .net and follow that topic/thread path.

As for seeding screens, if you read back a ways, there is a discussion about that. To recap it, you can't really jump-start a screen. The screen has to 'slime up' and form a base upon which the GHA will easily seed and grow. You can pull GHA out of your tank and smear it on the screen, but it won't really grab hold so it will just slide off and back into your tank. Strapping your screen to an existing screen will help, but the new/clean screen will still need to slime up and set in.

One guy had a power outage and pump to screen didn't kick back on, so he cleaned his screen thoroughly and it still needed the full curing time again.

So there's really no short-cut, besides buying a pre-grown screen. And if you tank is super high in nutrients (N and P) you get different algae until it drops down, so that sometimes won't do you much good.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I have excess hose going from my pump to the spray bar. It's clear flex hose. I'm noticing growth of different colors of algaes in the length of hose closest to the ATS lights. Should I be concerned about this or just extra macro filtering power?

Also, is it possible that someone could put together an ATS algae quick reference guide. Week 1-4 Algaes could be yellow /brown.
Week 5-6 Aglaes will most likely be
Month 2-4 Algaes will most likely be
Month 5-6 Algaes will most likely be

Some stages may be skipped depending on design, flow, lighting, etc.. .. .. etc.

A couple days after lights out period, I am noticing that my HA on one side of the tank is turning white. Algae on the other side of the tank is starting to turn, but remaining green for the most part. In a couple days I'll go in and start harvesting Hair algae again. I think the scrubber is finally starting to compete with the Macros in the display.

I'm going to start working on a post # 1001 summary.

The algae in the tubing could slow the flow a bit, but probably not anything to worry too much about. Wrap it in electrical tape. Or switch to black hose.

If the ATS isn't curing up fast enough, ridding the DT of algae will help. Also, what is your N and P currently?

 

[travis32]

When I first started the tank with fresh RODI water 4 months ago, and brand new IO salt, I let it run a few days before testing but, phosphates were over 1.0 (depending on the test kit.) I tried a lower range test kit a few weeks ago, and they tested between 0 and .5.


I had and continue to have so much HA in my tank that what P I do have is being sucked right out into the HA. My fish seem to like the taste of dieing HA... Go figure. If it's plush and green they won't touch it, but now that it's turning white, they're yanking it off the glass, rocks, corals, everything. just ripping it apart. My bristletooth took a dive into a huge strand of HA, just took a running start and swam right into it trying to cut it away from the glass.

Over the last month while starting the ATS, I probably pulled close to 1 quart of HA. If I piled it all up in a gallon pale, it'd probably be at least 1/4 full if not half full of HA.

And there's again as much in the display.

I know the sources of it. Unfortunately. I'm hoping the ATS can keep up with the source.

I reused live rock that went through an 8.0 Ammonia crash. I shouldn't have.. I should have just started over and given this rock a huge bath. But, it was fully cycled, so, hey, why not reuse it right. Well, 5-6 months after that crash, the rocks are probably still recovering from it processing dead organics deep inside the holes in the rocks.

I do a once every 2 weeks hand harvesting of the HA. I'll probably do another harvest this weekend, it'll be long enough and loose enough now for me to grab it...

I'm hoping the ATS will continue to out combat the HA though. I may do a once a week 24 hour lights out on the display to jump start the ATS every week. I'll leave my skimmer running for now to assist. I only have 6 fish in the 125g. So, Nitrates have always tested zero so far.

 

[thefuz]

Working out plumbing for a scrubber in my sump. Planning on picking up an Eheim 1262 for the return. Will it work OK to run the scrubber feed off of that? I'm trying to minimize the number of pumps running. Trying to work out the setup now with a gate valve for the main flow and ball valves to handle the ATS and other things (I have return flow running through a UV unit currently - UV off now, of course ).

I have a 2 chamber sump that was in use as a wet/dry by the previous owner. Both chambers are about 15x15 so I think I can fit a 12x12 screen easily (double sided with hang-on lights, much like srusso's). Is it OK to run the ATS on the same side as the return pump or should I consider other options for the sump? The space isn't quite right to fit a 40B. Best I can do is probably a 30L or to have someone custom build me another sump (not out of the question in terms of cash, but I'd like to stick with what I have if it will work).

For reference, I have a 90 gallon oceanic. Installed dead rock/sand and salted ro/di water this weekend. Haven't started the cycle yet - going to be traveling in a couple of weeks and planning to get going in earnest the weekend we get back. I have a Euro Reef 135 skimmer that I'm planning on running as well. If I have the skimmer running - does it make sense to have that running alternately with the light cycle for the ATS?

 

[zhewitt04]

Would a light like this work for me? How many would I need? I am going to start on mine here in a few weeks. You all ahve mentioned the plastic canvas. How about plastic gutter guards. It is not the traditional kind of guard though. It is a flxable mess. It normally comes in aluminum but they also offer it in a plastc. I think it would work without sanding it. I don't have a picture yet if anyone is interested i will put it on here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/E27-HR16-Grow-S...472?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0ef7aa68

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

It's not sanding, it's roughing it up. The algae needs a rough surface to attach to. Whatever material you use, it has to be roughed up. The plastic canvas is like 75 cents for an 9x11 piece, and we know that it works. Anything else was probably evaluated and tried by Santa Monica way early on. Stick with the tried and true, it's proven to work. So far, I haven't been able to find anything else to beat it. Everyone I've seen try something else has switch to the canvas and had better results.

 

[zhewitt04]

Thanks will do

 

[SaltwaterAdict]

Yeah, my screen actually just, after 6 - 7 months matured to the point that it's now growing the ideal algae. Your screen will change algae types on its own, with each type comes even more filtering capacity. My scrubber is a little more then double sized. 13x12 inch for a 70 gallon. B/c of this fact I feel that I saw each algae type for a longer and more defined stage in growth.

From memory... I have enough posts about it that I can possibly track the timings better... But I should include I had been making design changes throughout building my scrubber.

Blown algae grew first, about 3 - 4 weeks after that I started getting spots of green appearing. The green spots where a bit harder to clean off so naturally more of the green algae grew back. Eventually it covered the entire screen and happen to be a dark powder algae. The powder algae lasted about 2 months. A mix of a weird jelly like algae began growing over the powder and after first seeing it, within one or two weeks it had covered the entire screen. This algae dominated for about 4 months. It hard to explain this algae. Very sponge like, gelatin, mixture of dark and light green, sticks solidly onto the screen. Comes off in sheets, and never got thicker then half an inch. Most recently my screen has been growing the same algae Floyd has pictured. The few new patches are quickly absorbing the N and P faster then the old algae can... The old algae is barely growing.

This makes a lot of sense why this is more effective than chaeto because it grows a lot of different algaes and water is always passing through it.

Should I plumb my overflow to the screen or would using a pump do the same thing? I'm thinking the water coming out of the overflow may be a little dirtier and get filtered better.

I really enjoyed the video you posted earlier, really cool! Nature is a beautiful thing.

 

[SaltwaterAdict]

People have tried seeding screens, it should work to some degree...
Once you have a properly setup scrubber and the screen has started to mature... You will never see nitrates or phosphates... That for some people, maybe cleaner water... Others have been successful using other equipment and getting the same zero nitrates and phosphates. So in the end clean water is clean water...

thanks, yeah usually people not using scrubbers are doing a ton of water changes weekly and I'm thinking I could cut back and let nature do it's thing. What do you think?