Algae Scrubber Basics

[travis32]

I noticed a couple dry spots as well, I moved the screen some and took a flat screw driver and went a long the slit. Turns out debris from the pump sucking stuff out of the sump, had built up in the slit. I managed to get it all cleaned out and it worked fine again.

Oh, I'm doing a 30 hour lights out on my display. I just want to say that my screen has had HUGE growth in the first day of lights out. Today I'm doing a partial day. They'll be off until 6:00pm, at which time they'll be on until 10 pm. Just don't want to shock the clams and corals too much. Hopefully this is no different than a cloudy or stormy day in the ocean.

I may do a weekly 24 hour period of lights out until the HA in the tank is all dead and the ATS is picking up the slack.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Booyah!

kdirk, it sounds like it *could* be a narrow slot. Measure it and make sure though, because a 1/8" slot should be enough.

What is the water level of your overflow box? Is it above your pipe? What I mean here is for instance if you are running an open standpipe, is the water completely covering that pipe, in essence making the drain a full siphon? If you're running a durso, is the pipe completely under water?

If not, then the slot is not restricting the flow, and widening the pipe will not solve the problem, it will make it worse. From your description it sounds like you do not have enough flow in your system.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Heres my second version. I based it on Floyds design. I am using a reflectors off of an old PC light that came with my tank. I got the ballast and bulbs from work. Im hoping it works well. Ive been battling HA for about 6-8 months now, to no avail. My first version worked but I had some safety concerns with it so I pulled it out. Ill post pics of the HA and tank tomorrow.

Looks good! Are you using T5's? You need to use the grow lamps, not just any lamp. I get them for $4/each.

 

[redneckgearhead]

Looks good! Are you using T5's? You need to use the grow lamps, not just any lamp. I get them for $4/each.

No, they are PC style lights. Here is the specs for them.
36 watts
112 volts
0.43 amps
2G11 cap
F36BX/835 description
2,900 approx initial lumens
3,500k color temp

Think they will work?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

color temp is a little high, but it should work OK. Here's a better lamp when that one needs to be replaced (or if it doesn't work that well after all)"

http://www.atlantalightbulbs.com/ecart/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=PL-L36.3000KPROLUME

That's just one that I found quick. I'm sure there is another one at 2700K too. I don't know that many have tried the PL style, but I'm sure that it would be no worse than CFL, probably better since the lamps are more linear, but there might be a reason they are not usually used. I'll have to add that to the list of stuff to check on

is it a new lamp?

 

[redneckgearhead]

color temp is a little high, but it should work OK. Here's a better lamp when that one needs to be replaced (or if it doesn't work that well after all)"

http://www.atlantalightbulbs.com/ecart/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=PL-L36.3000KPROLUME

That's just one that I found quick. I'm sure there is another one at 2700K too. I don't know that many have tried the PL style, but I'm sure that it would be no worse than CFL, probably better since the lamps are more linear, but there might be a reason they are not usually used. I'll have to add that to the list of stuff to check on

is it a new lamp?

Thanks Floyd! Ill show some progress of the scrubber and tank. Yes the bulbs and ballast are new. They where free (my work used to use them for something not sure what) and I had an old PC light laying around so I robbed the reflector and pigtails out of it.

SOOOO glad this thread hasn't become "nasty" like so many other scrubber threads!

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yes, so am I. I think it comes from our focus to make this thread about how to build the scrubber properly, versus the actual functionality of the algae scrubber. There's plenty of threads for that for people who want to research it and make up their mind!

 

[travis32]

When to shut down skimmer

When to shut down skimmer

SO, my ATS appears to be taking off full fledged. I don't know how much crap I should see in a week's time. but, I did a 30 hour lights out period. And the screen is just covered in algae on every square on the screen. There's parts of it that don't have a lot of flow, but even that has multiple layers of algae covering it. So, I know it's working.

The algae in the tank didn't seem too impacted in the display, it must have been stunted though, because the first day lights out, the algae on the screen was night and day difference just in a 8 hour period.

I have my skimmer set to almost as wet as it'll go and it's hardly producing any skimmate. It'll take about 2-3 months at this rate to get the cup half full.

So, will shutting the skimmer down impact the tank at all (oxygen, air, etc, organics the ATS can't remove?) Or should I Just pull the skimmer and let the ATS do it's thing?

The ATS has been up 3-4 weeks now, and I've cleaned it twice. This week should be more crap than last week, based on the current rate crap is building up.

:celeb1:

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

There are plenty of examples of tank running on different systems and you can always find one that runs great and one that has problems, for one reason or another. So I'll tap dance around the skimmer vs. scrubber issue as best I can.

Oxygenation: while it is widely accepted that a skimmer oxygenates the water, and that seems logical, I've read (can't remember where) that it really doesn't all that much. But anecdotal evidence suggests it does have an impact on pH. If you want to go down the pH path, there's plenty of evidence that pH is really not all that important of a factor to worry about, as long as your Alk is right and you pH stays in the safe range, you should be fine. As far as the ATS goes, a cascading waterfall oxygenates plenty if the screen is open to the air (not fully enclosed). So using one versus the other for oxygenation purposes, they are fairly comparable, in most cases.

Organics: When you reference "organics the ATS can't remove", if you're talking N and P, the scrubber does remove these, along with many other things. Generally, what it doesn't remove, you want in your tank anyways.

Do what you feel is right. There (purposely) is no guideline on this thread for when to remove other equipment. Because we just don't want to go down that road.

 

[mrbncal]

http://www.atlantalightbulbs.com/ecart/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=PL-L36.3000KPROLUME

Thanks Floyd! Ill show some progress of the scrubber and tank. Yes the bulbs and ballast are new. They where free (my work used to use them for something not sure what) and I had an old PC light laying around so I robbed the reflector and pigtails out of it.

SOOOO glad this thread hasn't become "nasty" like so many other scrubber threads!

Way back when i was researching for my scrubber, I read on the original SM thread that he had tried using these lights (style) and gave up due to the amount of heat generated and they are not as energy efficient as the spirals.

 

[redneckgearhead]

http://www.atlantalightbulbs.com/ecart/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=PL-L36.3000KPROLUME


Way back when i was researching for my scrubber, I read on the original SM thread that he had tried using these lights (style) and gave up due to the amount of heat generated and they are not as energy efficient as the spirals.

Really? Well that's good to know. I will let you know about them, If they get to hot or don't work at all. I'm not real concerned with the efficiency of them.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Good catch Mr B! I have an old coralife PC fixture and I remember it gets quite hot. I would consider a cooling fan to blow across the lamps, mainly so that you don't cause the acrylic to warp.

Also a tip for you RNGH - since your box is open on top, it will tend to warp outwards along the sides. You need to add a piece of acrylic perpendicular to the side panel, at least 1" wide to keep this from happening.

 

[redneckgearhead]

Good catch Mr B! I have an old coralife PC fixture and I remember it gets quite hot. I would consider a cooling fan to blow across the lamps, mainly so that you don't cause the acrylic to warp.

Also a tip for you RNGH - since your box is open on top, it will tend to warp outwards along the sides. You need to add a piece of acrylic perpendicular to the side panel, at least 1" wide to keep this from happening.

Thanks for the tips. Ill add a cooling fan and "stiff back" to the sides of the case. Was planning on trying to install everything tonight but just got a call from the boss. Will be working very very late tonight, so maybe this weekend.

 

[travis32]

Do what you feel is right. There (purposely) is no guideline on this thread for when to remove other equipment. Because we just don't want to go down that road.

I agree, here. My Ph actually nearly reaches too high, topping out at 8.5 and falling to 8.15 at night.

I don't have a lot of room in my sump and if I remove my skimmer. (Keeping it in case of issues with the ATS in the future.

I was thinking of replacing the skimmer with my BRS reactor I used for GFO and isntead of running GFO. Run carbon to clean up the water. During the day when sunlight is on the tank there appears to be a lot of free radicals int he water. I'm thinking the carbon would polish making it look clearer. RUnningit in a reactor for a couple weeks would keep the carbon isolated and out of the tank directly.


So, with that said. I wasn't looking for a hard black and white answer on, yes, remove the skimmer or no never.

More of the pros and cons. If I remove, I could see a spike in nutrients or etc.

As far as organizcs, I was thinking of the stuff that doesn't fully disolve. Like if I feed too much, does the ATS catch the excess food like a skimmer might? (I'm not sure if a skimmer does catch excess food or not...)

Things that can't disolve in the water and don't break down real fast.

Just things like that. The carbon would probably help with that more than the skimmer though.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, I hadn't considered the impact to PH and didn't think oxygenation would be an issue. Plus I assume that algae produces oxygen through photosynthesis?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yes, algae consumes CO2 and produces O2, and the opposite at night, just like plants and trees (but the opposite/night is much smaller amounts).

As for non-dissolved, there's not a whole lot that doesn't 'fully dissolve'. If you run a sump, and there is an area of it that doesn't get a lot of flow, you will get "mulm" taht settles out over time, it's brownish and powdery, and you just siphon that out.

Towards the end of the week, when the ATS is good and thick, mine does tend to catch particles, but it's not the primary function. The slot tube will stop larger particles but they will eventually get pummeled through by the water pressure (or pushed to the end of the slot tube).

Carbon removes dissolved organics and pollutants, but gets used up rather quickly and has been linked to HLLE. I'm not a big fan of carbon unless you're removing meds. Think about the carbon filters for your drinking water, and how often you're supposed to replace them. Most don't replace them often enough. Now imagine that you urinate and defecate into your drinking water and run it through the carbon. How long do you think that's going to last? That's just my view on carbon.

The clarity of you water may be affected also by the amount of life in the water column. If your water is pure and clear, generally there's not a lot of microscopic life. That's why people add things like Reef Snow and phytoplankton. The ATS supports a lot of life, so your water column will look a little more active, and shining sunlight through it will definitely show this. If this is not desired, then running something to clear the water up would be what you would need to do. Whatever that may be.

As for the skimmer, I guess that's a good a question as it is for any piece of equipment. If you went from 1 lb LR/gal to 4 lb LR/gal, you would want to wait until the LR was fully cured and capable of de-nitrifying the water before removing the skimmer, if you were relying on the skimmer to effectively reduce nitrates.

 

[dogstar74]

So It's been three weeks since I set up the Improved ATS for my 10 gallon. The screens are still only coated with brown slimy algae. Am I doing something wrong, or does it take longer for the real turf algae to come in?

 

[SaltwaterAdict]

Yes, algae consumes CO2 and produces O2, and the opposite at night, just like plants and trees (but the opposite/night is much smaller amounts).

As for non-dissolved, there's not a whole lot that doesn't 'fully dissolve'. If you run a sump, and there is an area of it that doesn't get a lot of flow, you will get "mulm" taht settles out over time, it's brownish and powdery, and you just siphon that out.

Towards the end of the week, when the ATS is good and thick, mine does tend to catch particles, but it's not the primary function. The slot tube will stop larger particles but they will eventually get pummeled through by the water pressure (or pushed to the end of the slot tube).

Carbon removes dissolved organics and pollutants, but gets used up rather quickly and has been linked to HLLE. I'm not a big fan of carbon unless you're removing meds. Think about the carbon filters for your drinking water, and how often you're supposed to replace them. Most don't replace them often enough. Now imagine that you urinate and defecate into your drinking water and run it through the carbon. How long do you think that's going to last? That's just my view on carbon.

The clarity of you water may be affected also by the amount of life in the water column. If your water is pure and clear, generally there's not a lot of microscopic life. That's why people add things like Reef Snow and phytoplankton. The ATS supports a lot of life, so your water column will look a little more active, and shining sunlight through it will definitely show this. If this is not desired, then running something to clear the water up would be what you would need to do. Whatever that may be.

As for the skimmer, I guess that's a good a question as it is for any piece of equipment. If you went from 1 lb LR/gal to 4 lb LR/gal, you would want to wait until the LR was fully cured and capable of de-nitrifying the water before removing the skimmer, if you were relying on the skimmer to effectively reduce nitrates.

Hi, I'm thinking about setting up a scrubber and really like the whole philosophy behind it.

Interesting views. I don't want my water column to look murky so how would I make it look clear without carbon use? I like crystal clear water which I think everyone does.

 

[SaltwaterAdict]

Does a scrubber work better than chaeto? Could I benefit from running both?

 

[SaltwaterAdict]

I did some testing this week. I allowed an extra 5-6 days of growth and my results are interesting.

Harvest amount was it's normal 2 Cups, however the algae was darker and denser. My screen does not grow hair algae but a very firm gelatin like algae.

During this time I also feed very heavily... Like 3 big meals a day. Simulating a vacation. Just top off water and food. I know every time you ask some to feed your tank it always gets more then what you tell them to feed...

Example of a days feeding:

Morning - 2 frozen spirulina brine shrimp just thawed in tank water
Two hunks of shrimp for each anemone.

Noon - tetra bits

Night - good squirt of plankton another chuck of shrimp for the BTA and a cube mysis.

FYI - after 6 days feeding like this I still saw no nitrates or phosphates... using Salifert tests.

Ps. I got a clam!! Last week!
View attachment 142568

Hi, I'm new here and really like this thread and what you have contributed.

fwiw, if that's you feeding heavy you don't want to know how I feed my tank lol

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

So It's been three weeks since I set up the Improved ATS for my 10 gallon. The screens are still only coated with brown slimy algae. Am I doing something wrong, or does it take longer for the real turf algae to come in?

You don't want "turf" per se. You want Green Hair Algae because it allows the light to transmit to the base easier.

It's not beyond the norm for you t not get much GHA in the first few weeks. You should see a little bit at least though. It will take several weeks before it really takes off. Just make sure you don't scrub the screen with a brush when you clean it, start by rinsing in room-temp gently running water, and maybe use your fingers (tips, not nails) to loosen and rinse away the brown stuff. Leave enough behind so that a 'base' doesn't have to form again. I'll post pics of my first 5-6 weeks in a bit

Hi, I'm thinking about setting up a scrubber and really like the whole philosophy behind it.

Interesting views. I don't want my water column to look murky so how would I make it look clear without carbon use? I like crystal clear water which I think everyone does.

It depends on your definition of 'clear'. If you mean 'not yellow or brown' then this will do it. 'Murky' is relative, the non-clarity I referred to in my last couple posts was because of life in the water column, not hazy/whitish tinted water. The water in the tank I have the scrubber on has no tint to it if that helps. When I take a water sample in a 3.5 oz cup from each of the tanks I maintain, I can tell which one is from the scrubber tank because the other tanks have a light yellow/brown tint to the water, just in that little cup.

Does a scrubber work better than chaeto? Could I benefit from running both?

The Algae Scrubber will quickly out-compete the chaeto. You can run both, but once the screen matures it will wipe out the chaeto (and any other macros for that matter). They are both macros, the ATS just has the lights closer and the flow is more turbid, so it grows faster. This is also why it wipes out GHA in the DT, as long as the rocks aren't leeching phosphate (then it just takes longer)