Algae Scrubber Basics

[Floyd R Turbo]

Ok, a quick course in Google Sketchup and here you go.

The left side would be from the HOB overflow to the scrubber. The right side would be the emergency drain, uncapped on top though you might add a piece of foam to silence the noise.

Also it might be wise to make a transition to the next larger pipe for the emergency to account for any flow restriction created by the double 90 and tee. So if you're using 1" pipe for the main, transition out of the first tee into 1.25". Also you could use 2 45's instead of 90s, but 90's are easier to line up and weld.

Also note that with this design, you can add a ball valve between the tee and the scrubber and shut off the flow to the screen for cleaning, and let the flow go through the emergency.

This design really only works well when you have a lot of vertical above the slot tube. For those with reef ready tanks, you could do this using both bulkheads and then bring the return up outside the tank instead of inside, so it's not as clean looking, but actually promotes better flow since your return piping is not limited by your bulkhead. Plus you can distribute flow better with a plenum return anyways.

I don't know why I didn't think of suggesting that arrangement with reef ready tanks before. The only problem is that most RR tanks are designed for 1" drain and 3/4" return lines, so you can't get true full-flow emergency in all cases.

 

[thefuz]

Backing up to the nitrate-limited situation (or the less likely phosphate-limited one), is it possible that adjusting the light period to find some balance between the two might be in order?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I'm not quite following your question.

 

[srusso]

I'm not quite following your question.

I think he is saying, by shortening the light cycle, could you in turn limit the amount of nitrate being consumed and allow phosphates to "catch up"

I think its plausible, but this is a topic better discussed in the algae scrubber advanced thread, we should find some testers...

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Since algae growth happens by absorbing N and P roughly in proportion to one another, I would think the answer would be no. Decreasing light would decrease uptake of both I would think.

 

[thefuz]

I think he is saying, by shortening the light cycle, could you in turn limit the amount of nitrate being consumed and allow phosphates to "catch up"

This is precisely what I'm saying If you're limited on N, P is going to build anyway. Presumably, N is being exhausted too quickly by both bacteria and scrubber. If you allow the scrubber to work slower, then excess N will build on the theory that denitrifying bacteria don't keep up with N production on their own as part of the regular A-N-N process. Therefore, when the scrubber is on there should be more available N to bind with P.

The challenge then becomes defining this balance on a continual basis (more frequent testing). I'm probably also at a disadvantage right now b/c the tank is fishless for 5 more weeks. But it's fun to experiment! I'm tempted to dose a few drops of ammonia to see if that provides a beneficial boost of N.

 

[mmullaly]

Ok, a quick course in Google Sketchup and here you go.

The left side would be from the HOB overflow to the scrubber. The right side would be the emergency drain, uncapped on top though you might add a piece of foam to silence the noise.

Also it might be wise to make a transition to the next larger pipe for the emergency to account for any flow restriction created by the double 90 and tee. So if you're using 1" pipe for the main, transition out of the first tee into 1.25". Also you could use 2 45's instead of 90s, but 90's are easier to line up and weld.

Also note that with this design, you can add a ball valve between the tee and the scrubber and shut off the flow to the screen for cleaning, and let the flow go through the emergency.

This design really only works well when you have a lot of vertical above the slot tube. For those with reef ready tanks, you could do this using both bulkheads and then bring the return up outside the tank instead of inside, so it's not as clean looking, but actually promotes better flow since your return piping is not limited by your bulkhead. Plus you can distribute flow better with a plenum return anyways.

I don't know why I didn't think of suggesting that arrangement with reef ready tanks before. The only problem is that most RR tanks are designed for 1" drain and 3/4" return lines, so you can't get true full-flow emergency in all cases.

I appreciate the time you spent on the diagram and the exlplanation. But, (forgive my ignorance) I'm just not getting it. If I wanted to run my overflow completely to the ATS, then I think I understand. I'm not sure if this would be too much flow (if that is even possible). I know my overflow is rated for 800gph and my return pump is at 1200gph at 0 head. I should be getting at least half of that to my overflow. So, I'm thinking maybe 500 to 600 gph to the sump from the overflow. Maybe ? I'd have to test to be certain. Also, what does your sump look like with no filter sock? I know it's a pain to replace the sock every couple of days. But, I think it's better than having detrius sitting at the bottom of my sump. This is why I wanted to drill an extra hole in the overflow. The 1" bulkhead would flow to the sump and fillter sock and then hopefully to the skimmer. The new 3/4" bulk head in the overflow would feed the ATS directly with no worries about blockage. I'm sort of killing two birds with one stone.

So, my options are:

1. Run half to sump/filter sock to sump and other half to ATS
Benefits: Cleaner sump, no chance of water blockage/backup
Cons: Not sure if this setup will give me enough flow to the ATS

2. Run the overflow right into the ATS with some type of blockage protection like you mentioned.
Benefits: More than enough flow (maybe too much), no more socks
Cons: Dirty sump and still possible flood from a me being and idiot and not implementing the backup / blockage protection properly.

3: Replace the MJ1200 with a 400 gph pump.
Benefits: Hmmmmmm, can't think of any, other than simplicity.
Cons: Another damm pump, electrictity usage, heat, etc.

Thanks again

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

With no filter sock, there will be a buildup of detrius in the sump. But for me, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I had to siphon it out once every couple months (bare 40 breeder, no baffles) that was for a fully stocked and coral loaded 120. Filter socks trap food particles that corals like and pods that fish eat. Plus they are a total pain to exchange and clean. I run them on another tank I maintain and I can't wait to replace them (I mean get rid of them)

 

[OodleyBoodely]

:wavehand:Hi y'all! I've been lurking and reading as much as I can on ATS and love the whole concept! I too am taking the plunge and have thrown together something for my little system. I would really appreciate a lookover and critique of my scrubber and any problems that you foresee might occur. :spin3:

My system will be;

* 37g main display w/oyster/perlite/cement walls
* 6g nano either frag tank or reef
*20L sump with 30lb liverock
*5g cryptic zone
* Algae scrubber


I have been running the 20L sump for almost 2yrs with my 6gal nano tank, so, I have a fairly well established nano/sump with the 30lbs lr and a macro refugium, gfo/carbon reactor, and, Reef Octo skimmer. My plan is to remove my skimmer, gfo/carbon reactors, and, macro algaes and go 100% filtration with the algae scrubber and a benthic zone in the sump refugium. The 37g is not hooked up to the sump yet and is currently curing the cement/oystershell/perlite walls with freshwater. Hopefullly this will be ready for saltwater soon.

My algae scrubber is shown in the pics. I plan to run this off the siphon return from the 37 eventually using a Quietone 4000, but, until then I will use a mj1200 to seed the screen. I have two inlets on the scrubber to accomodate a 1" drain from the 37 or a 1/2 line from the mj1200. I can plug up whichever one I'm not using. My screen is 9x7 and will be lit from both sides.

 

[srusso]

:wavehand:Hi y'all! I've been lurking and reading as much as I can on ATS and love the whole concept! I too am taking the plunge and have thrown together something for my little system. I would really appreciate a lookover and critique of my scrubber and any problems that you foresee might occur. :spin3:

My system will be;

* 37g main display w/oyster/perlite/cement walls
* 6g nano either frag tank or reef
*20L sump with 30lb liverock
*5g cryptic zone
* Algae scrubber


I have been running the 20L sump for almost 2yrs with my 6gal nano tank, so, I have a fairly well established nano/sump with the 30lbs lr and a macro refugium, gfo/carbon reactor, and, Reef Octo skimmer. My plan is to remove my skimmer, gfo/carbon reactors, and, macro algaes and go 100% filtration with the algae scrubber and a benthic zone in the sump refugium. The 37g is not hooked up to the sump yet and is currently curing the cement/oystershell/perlite walls with freshwater. Hopefullly this will be ready for saltwater soon.

My algae scrubber is shown in the pics. I plan to run this off the siphon return from the 37 eventually using a Quietone 4000, but, until then I will use a mj1200 to seed the screen. I have two inlets on the scrubber to accomodate a 1" drain from the 37 or a 1/2 line from the mj1200. I can plug up whichever one I'm not using. My screen is 9x7 and will be lit from both sides.

Remember your algae scrubber needs some time running before you can remove all other filtration. The maxijet 1200 will not do much, just want to set your expectations.

As for your scrubber build, it looks good! Looks you will need more light though, other than that your good. :thumbsup:

 

[mmullaly]

With no filter sock, there will be a buildup of detrius in the sump. But for me, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I had to siphon it out once every couple months (bare 40 breeder, no baffles) that was for a fully stocked and coral loaded 120. Filter socks trap food particles that corals like and pods that fish eat. Plus they are a total pain to exchange and clean. I run them on another tank I maintain and I can't wait to replace them (I mean get rid of them)

Other than the sump/sock issue, what do yo think about my other options?

Thanks

 

[pskelton]

Just wanted to share my lighting experience and what I learned this week. I a running 5 gallon bucket style scrubber with 23W flood type CFL lights. I have been scraping the screen every 5-6 days due to black/brow algae (I have very high nitrates) On wednesday I replaced my 8 week old lights and in their place I installed standard 23 watt spiral CFLs (Same color temp 2300K) and put them in aluminum clamp light reflectors. I checked my screen this morning and found that I have about as much black/brown algae today as I have been getting in 5 days with the old bulbs. In light of this I have to say I highly recommend using standard CFLs with reflectors over the flood type bulbs.

 

[pskelton]

I also wanted to share a video of my daily pod storm. Every day about an hour after the lights come on my tank looks like my tank has a blizzard. The clown fish love it and swim around gobbling them up. I think I will be getting a mandarin soon.
http://s1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc363/pskelton330/?action=view&current=PodStorm.mp4

 

[scolley]

I think he is saying, by shortening the light cycle, could you in turn limit the amount of nitrate being consumed and allow phosphates to "catch up"

Since algae growth happens by absorbing N and P roughly in proportion to one another, I would think the answer would be no. Decreasing light would decrease uptake of both I would think.

That is correct... there's no "catch up". Algae - like any other plant - is going to use N and P at fixed rates, provided uptake is not otherwise limited (by light, CO2, potassium, or a ton of micro nutrients). Given proper light, it's going to consume until it runs out of something. And it does not consume more of one thing when it has less of something else. Whatever the uptake ratios are will remain constant. And FWIW - uptake of nitrogen to phosphates is roughly 10 to 1, or a bit higher like 14 to 1.

 

[OodleyBoodely]

Remember your algae scrubber needs some time running before you can remove all other filtration. The maxijet 1200 will not do much, just want to set your expectations.

Understood! I actually ran this nano/sump without the skimmer for several months without any major problems...I don't have much in it except a small tomato clown and 5 small frags. Nitrate did climb but slowly as the c. prolifera algae in my sump helped control that. At any rate, I don't forsee any real issues with removing the skimmer and replacing it with the scrubber. I will leave my gfo/carbon reactor (long overdue for changing) up until the scrubber is working well, and, I will leave the calurapa in the sump refugium for awhile longer, too. (water will flow through the macro after the algae scrubber).

I will forget about using the maxijets...it was only to be temporary anyway. My future return pump will be a Quiet One 4000 (1000gph) which I am guessing will run about 600gph with head loss. Until I get the main 37g running I'll just use the QO and throttle it down...that aught to be enough flow! :spin2:

As for your scrubber build, it looks good! Looks you will need more light though, other than that your good.
:thumbsup:

Thanks! For the lighting, I have two 23w spiral power compacts, one for each side with reflectors. I also picked up an led flood lamp at Lowes I want to try out, perhaps use as a second lamp on one side. Should I try to double up both sides of the scrubber with 2 X 23w on each side?

Thankyou for your help on this! :wavehand:

 

[srusso]

Thanks! For the lighting, I have two 23w spiral power compacts, one for each side with reflectors. I also picked up an led flood lamp at Lowes I want to try out, perhaps use as a second lamp on one side. Should I try to double up both sides of the scrubber with 2 X 23w on each side?

Thankyou for your help on this! :wavehand:

What size is the screen? Looks like a 8" x 14" ish... So I would say yeah, 4 lights should be used.

 

[OodleyBoodely]

It is 9x7

 

[OodleyBoodely]

Sorry, that should be 7x13! I forgot I added to the length! I don't have much room for more reflectors, so, I might look for two of those splitters (?) that turn one socket into two.

 

[srusso]

Sorry, that should be 7x13! I forgot I added to the length! I don't have much room for more reflectors, so, I might look for two of those splitters (?) that turn one socket into two.

I was very close... lol

I think the splitters will help add more light, however can have issues with light waste/spillage . Which is common with CFL setups...

Yeah that's the trouble with CFLs poor choices for reflectors. At one point i thought about mirror...

 

[OodleyBoodely]

eventually, I'd like to try building something more along the lines of Santa Monica's design, but, that will have to wait. For now I just want to get this going. Speaking of mirrors, isn't there a mirror finished mylar that could be used to line or maybe even extend the radius of the clamp-on reflectors? Even aluminum foil could be used if you don't mind the eyesore.