Anatomy of Our First Fish Quarantine Session

[dougchambers]

Like many, weââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve been in this hobby for years without setting up a proper quarantine system. For the most part weââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve been pretty lucky, but after reading the Jeff and Christyââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s adventures http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=708066 we knew we had to graduate to a quarantine system for our new in-wall tank. The focus of this thread is to document what we setup, what worked, what didnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t work, and gain from the knowledge of others as we transition our first fish through quarantine.

The Setup
-20 gallon glass tank
-200gph BioWheel filter (Soaked wheel in sump ~ 7 days ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Running QT 10 more days)
-CPR BakPak skimmer
-250W heater
-Assorted pieces of PVC
-Sg: 1.025
-Temp: 78.4Ã"šÃ‚°F

The Fish
-Very nice Powder Grey Tang (3-3.5ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚)
-Strong coloring and blue highlights throughout his fins and chin
-Quarantined at LFS ~2 weeks under in a copper treated system

The Plan
-Hypo treatment to target Sg of 1.009-1.010
-Watch for any stress, diseases and treat as required

Day #1:
-Received fish in good condition. We noted a possible tear in a fin that wasnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t there at the store. It could be from the handling to get him bagged up.

We changed out 10 gallons of water in the quarantine tank while floating the bag and dripping water from the main tank. Check the Sg, temp, and ammonia level before introduction.

Of course the first question is how long do we need to quarantine a fish that has already been in a copper treated tank? He is VERY active and eating rather well. We tied a piece of Nori to a piece of PVC and he proceeded to shred it into numerous pieces. Some of which he ate, while the others are stuck to the inlet side of the BioWheel pump strainer.

Let the adventure beginââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦

 

[NexDog]

I'll be tagging along.

 

[got2lb]

Me too! Good luck!

 

[jeffbrig]

Re: Anatomy of Our First Fish Quarantine Session

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6941174#post6941174 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dougchambers
-Quarantined at LFS ~2 weeks under in a copper treated system

Of course the first question is how long do we need to quarantine a fish that has already been in a copper treated tank? He is VERY active and eating rather well. We tied a piece of Nori to a piece of PVC and he proceeded to shred it into numerous pieces. Some of which he ate, while the others are stuck to the inlet side of the BioWheel pump strainer.

I would not assume that the copper was maintained at proper theraputic levels. Many LFSs that run copper through their systems do so at very low levels which are completely ineffective as treatment. The fact that the fish has already been held for 2 weeks means that it is reasonably healthy, but I would assume you are starting on day 1 treating for ich. Plan on at least 4 weeks at 1.009-1.010, assuming the fish shows no outward signs of the disease.

I've never mentioned it, but shredded nori on the pump strainers is the norm for tangs in QT. Over time, they'll learn that food collects there, and they'll pick the pieces off when they graze. I always try to get out what I can when I syphon the tank. I would do this daily for the first week or two to remove as much waste as possible while the biowheel ramps up. Also, when doing a water change, pull the filter pad(s) out of the biowheel and shake them out in the discard water. You'd be amazed what comes out. I prefer not to rinse the filter pads at the sink, since some bacteria may colonize the carbon media inside.

Best of luck, Doug!

 

[dougchambers]

Jeff - Thanks for the help. Good tip on not assuming the copper treatment was done effectively. It didn't take him long to shred the nori all over the tank but it appears he was eating some along the way. I also fed some mixed Brine and Formula 2 with the baster last night.

I've got another 30 gallons of fresh salt water made up for the main tank so I can keep pulling water from the sump for the QT water changes. Ultimately, I will need to mix a fresh batch of hypo saltwater to have ready for subsequent water changes.

What were you using to buffer your pH when adding strait RO/DI water to dive down to your hypo target?

Anyone remember the dilution equation for Sg? I'm trying to remember how to calculate resultant Sg when adding RO/DI to a base amount of water at a particular Sg.

-Doug

 

[agarza]

From the WetWebMedia:
Resultant specific gravity = (Vol1*SG1 + Vol2*SG2)/T
Vol1=Remaining Tank Volume
Vol2=Amount of water you are changing
T= Tank capacity
SG1= Specific gravity in Tank
SG2= Specific gravity of change water

Hope this helps

Cheers

 

[dougchambers]

Alfonso,

That's what I needed. Too much cold medicine today to do the math!

An interesting note, the equation assumes Vol1+Vol2 = T. Not a big deal, but on small tanks, it could make a difference.

Thanks again,

Doug

 

[agarza]

You're right, and of course you have to consider live rock and sand, again specially on small tanks.

You are welcome

 

[dougchambers]

Day #2:

Water tests look good. Added 1.5 cups of straight RO/DI to start dropping the Sg.

Sg: 1.025
pH: 8.3
Temp: 78.2Ã"šÃ‚°F
NH3: <0.5
NO2: 0
NO3: 0 (I hate reading these color tests!)

Fed a mixture of Mysis and Formula 2 soaked in garlic. He ate well and had stripped all the Nori from the holder so I put another strip in.

I'll check the Sg before bed.

Now for the dilemma... My wife is concerned with how fast the fish is swimming through the tank. It's been mentioned she thinks I spiked the tank with crack or some hallucinogenic. I have to admit, he does move around a LOT.

Coloration never has come back to what it was in the store. If you didn't know better, you would think he was a Naso besides the obvious shape difference.

Is there any concern that the stress of the quarantine session could actually induce Ich? What is to say that by confining the fish to a small tank and messing with the water every day we don't induce the sickness we think we are trying to eradicate? I guess if it does, we will already be in the quarantine session, but I'd be happier if he wasn't so neurotic. This is more stressful than I thought it would be...

Tomorrow we will change out some of the water and vacuum any debris in the bottom of the tank. I don't want to have an ammonia spike.

-Doug

 

[NexDog]

s there any concern that the stress of the quarantine session could actually induce Ich? What is to say that by confining the fish to a small tank and messing with the water every day we don't induce the sickness we think we are trying to eradicate?

Yep, quite normal. I find that healthy looking fish soon develop Ich within 2 weeks of going into QT.

 

[jeffbrig]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6949016#post6949016 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dougchambers
Now for the dilemma... My wife is concerned with how fast the fish is swimming through the tank. It's been mentioned she thinks I spiked the tank with crack or some hallucinogenic. I have to admit, he does move around a LOT.

Is he darting around or just swimming laps? Continuous darting would be a sign of fear/stress. If he does this when you approach the tank, that's a normal response until he gets used to you.

My tangs usually swim around casually using their pectoral fins. When they want to be somewhere in a hurry, a flick of the tail and they're on the other side of the tank instantly.

Is there any concern that the stress of the quarantine session could actually induce Ich? What is to say that by confining the fish to a small tank and messing with the water every day we don't induce the sickness we think we are trying to eradicate?

If it does, that means the disease/parasite was already present. Congratulate yourself for pinpointing it and eradicating it. This gives the fish the best chance for a long, healthy life.

Relax, it will get easier as the fish settles in....

BTW, don't be shy with the water changes to lower the salinity. Changing 25% with RO/DI each day (or even every 12 hours) is a perfectly acceptable rate of change. I've done this with 9 fish now, and none showed any stress (as soon as I got my hands and syphon out of the tank, that is).

 

[Big E]

I concur on lowering the salinity faster. I've gotten down to 1.009-10 in 24 hours or less many times with no ill effects. Just make sure you keep the PH stable.

I start with about 1.022 & a half full tank.... just add water periodically during the day. I'll tweak that last part down over that second day.

I've always had a good biological filter in my QT system............if you have that there will be zero problems. That's where most people fail & have problems.

 

[dougchambers]

Ed - What did you buffer your RO/DI water with to stabilize the pH?

-Doug.

 

[jeffbrig]

Doug, I have used baking soda and washing soda (baked baking soda) in different circumstances. Tanks in my house generally gravitate around 7.9-8.1. I find that even if i mix tank water with RO/DI down to 1.009, pH doesn't change. However, over time, I've noticed that the pH in the QT tends to drift downward.

To combat this, I'll add small amounts of baking soda to the water change water. This has a slight pH lowering effect in the short term, which I'll take advantage of to match the pH of the QT (usually a tad lower than the main tank). As a result, the pH does not change with the immedate water change, but the overall pH will rise slowly as the short-term effect of the baking soda addition wear off.

If I'm not doing a water change, yet need to raise alkalinity in the tank, I'll use washing soda. Take some RO/DI in a cup, dissolve some washing soda and add a bit slowly. Washing soda has a short-term tendency to raise pH, so I consider this to be better than baking soda when adding directly to a low-pH tank.

In both methods, once the short term effect wears off, the increased alkalinity tends to help maintain pH.

 

[dougchambers]

Thanks Jeff - I'll give it a try tonight.

-Doug

 

[ufchristyb]

Wow, that Jeff guy really thinks he knows it all.

Keep up the good work Doug! Don't worry about the cracked out tang, our Achilles used to swim back and forth so quickly - he was like a hyperactive golden retriever. See if he settles in with time.

--Christy

 

[ufchristyb]

Ooh, come to think about it, there was one point when our Achilles was swimming super fast around the tank - it was when he was a bit constipated (yes this is a problem for fish).

Remember to monitor output as well as input.

 

[dougchambers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6956182#post6956182 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ufchristyb
Don't worry about the cracked out tang, our Achilles used to swim back and forth so quickly - he was like a hyperactive golden retriever. See if he settles in with time.

--Christy

Wait! We have a hyperactive Golden Retriever. It's all starting to make sense...

My wife (Trudy) wanted to start asking you questions directly because you seem more sensible about the shoes and all, but she didn't want to end up with a dumb avatar... No offense to Scooby lovers everywhere. Which ever one they are. :rollface:

Not sure about LOST, but what about Gray's Anatomy? I think we've crossed threads...

 

[dougchambers]

Day #3:

Siphoned off all the debris from the bottom of the tank and did ~25% water change with fresh RO/DI tempered with a fresh batch of saltwater. Brought the Sg down from 1.025 to 1.021 over about 3 hours.

Had a bit of a disfunction when I pulled the filter pad out of the BioWheel to flush out in the discarded water. I didn't realize how much Nori had settled in the bottom of the filter and when I pulled the pad out and it all flushed into the tank. It created quite the mess which I promptly siphoned back out.

To cut down on some of the distractions, I lined three sides of the tank with paper. Not sure if it did much for us yet, but we will see.

Temp: 78.3Ã"šÃ‚°F
pH: 8.39
Sg: 1.021

Replaced the piece of Nori that disappeard through out the day and fed a mixture of different flakes. He likes the red DELI-FLAKES from brineshrimpdirect the best of mixture.

Now that I've got a better feel for the water changes and dilution ratios, we should be down to ~1.010 Thursday or Friday to start the clock.

Another water change and battery of water tests slated for tomorrow.

-Doug

 

[Big E]

Doug,

Same as what Jeff said, baking soda dried in the oven. Or any commercial product works fine.

Just stay on top of those ammonia tests. I would have cycled that filter more than 7 days. Putting it in the QT tank for 10 days did nothing, unless you had waste in it for the bacteria to consume & multiply.

Don't overdue the hypo for more than 4-5 weeks. Some fish will start to show ill effects like sores,white puss growths, scale problems, ect.