Another sad article on our ocean's health...

[virginiadiver69]

Sorry bud...I'm not buying it. Global water vapor can not be measured accurately in any way. Never mind solar radiation. You can account for the fact that it's there and suppose how much it affects the local climate but that's the limit.

By the way...I'm glad you've gone back to the old avatar.

 

[Tang Salad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12975838#post12975838 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
Sorry bud...I'm not buying it. Global water vapor can not be measured accurately in any way. Never mind solar radiation.

Astronomers can measure the radiation of distant stars very easily, why would they be unable to measure the radiation of the star in our backyard?

 

[AngeloM3]

To quote 'The Man' himself.... and edited for family friendly site....

"...Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are screwed. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?

The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages. And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!"

The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: The Earth Plus Plastic."

-George Carlin

 

[aslavatortin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12977327#post12977327 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AngeloM3
To quote 'The Man' himself.... and edited for family friendly site....

"...Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are screwed. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?

The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages. And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!"

The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: The Earth Plus Plastic."

-George Carlin

Well said, rest in peace, George.

 

[Tang Salad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12977658#post12977658 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aslavatortin
Well said, rest in peace, George.

Yep, RIP Mr. Carlin...




He was one heck of a scientist! :lol:





Seriously, he was great.

 

[Kannin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12898543#post12898543 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tang Salad
Wow. There are people who have spent their entire lives studying this. They are called scientists. They disagree with you. Have you studied it long?

You think that the world's scientists confirm "man made global warming" because that is what ALGORE tells you. Many scientists believe that it is not nearly as serious as we think. Have you noticed that he never debates... only lectures? He tells you that the ice is melting in Greenland but, what he doesn't tell you... is that, when they discovered Greenland... over 400 years ago, IT WAS GREEN! Have you been informed that many of the same scientists that preach "global warming" were preaching "the next ice age" 30 years ago? It is because their jobs and funding depend on it. Did you see ALGORE show up to accept his Nobel Prize on a city bus, while his luggage showed up 15 minutes later in a 12 cylinder limo? Did you know that it costs $2500 a month to power his mansion... while he is flying around on a jet asking YOU to sacrifice by buying a Prius for $8000 more than a comparable car?

If you think for a second that this new religion is more than just a way to gain riches and power... then you deserve to be fooled. The majority of his money is invested with companies like GE... who are moving up the Forbes list because of green technology like more expensive light bulbs and wind mills. Pretty soon... the government is going to be able to force YOU to get rid of your reef tank (because it uses too much electricity), drive the car they want you to drive... or live where they want you to live (like in the city where you will buy less gas)... And all of this will happen while China is allowed to bring a new coal fired power plant on line every 2 weeks.

Did you know that the temperature on Mars was going up just like here up until a few years ago... and now it is going down, just like here?

 

[billsreef]

Actually it's quite conceited to think we don't have an impact. A simple walk on a beach proves that with all the garbage washed up on it, even in remote areas. A nice boat ride offshore and you can find garbage floating out among the rafts of saragassum, you can easily see the dense haze of pollution over our major cities. Effects of sewage and runoff of man made pollutants like fertilizers have definite effects on our waters. The list goes on. These are all readily observable if one wants to actually open their eyes and look.

 

[Kannin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12979272#post12979272 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Actually it's quite conceited to think we don't have an impact. A simple walk on a beach proves that with all the garbage washed up on it, even in remote areas. A nice boat ride offshore and you can find garbage floating out among the rafts of saragassum, you can easily see the dense haze of pollution over our major cities. Effects of sewage and runoff of man made pollutants like fertilizers have definite effects on our waters. The list goes on. These are all readily observable if one wants to actually open their eyes and look.

If you are speaking to me, Bill... I did not say that we don't pollute! I did not say that man is not having a negative impact on the environment! What I said is that there are many many holes in the "Global Warming" theory. What I did say is that before we spend Trillions of dollars (both tax and personal earnings) on solutions, regulations, fines and higher prices for literally everything... while China is allowed to pollute at ever increasing levels... we should stop and look at the motives of the people crying wolf.

Conservation is important... Envronmental nazi-ism is dangerous. How many rights and how much money are we willing to give up for ALGORE'S cause??? When his motivations are certainly suspect?

 

[Tang Salad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12978236#post12978236 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kannin
You think that the world's scientists confirm "man made global warming" because that is what ALGORE tells you.

What a freaking joke!

I dislike Al Gore. I could not care less what he says about global warming. Enough of the personal attacks, please.

 

[Kannin]

I did not personally attack you.

You put yourself out there with the following (snotty) comment.

"Wow. There are people who have spent their entire lives studying this. They are called scientists. They disagree with you. Have you studied it long?"

I was just telling you that many of the people called scientists that have studied it a long time... have a vested interest in the dooms day theory that is being shoved down our throats.

 

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12979272#post12979272 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Actually it's quite conceited to think we don't have an impact.

This Non sequitur comment is getting old, bill... and everyone else that likes to use it.
Not a single "denier" has once said that we don't pollute or that we don't have a vested interest in cleaning up after our selves. What we do say is that this corollary/causation argument is very suspect and steadily falling apart under further scrutiny. There is a HUGE difference between humans making an "impact" and permanently altering the Earth atmosphere and climate. Your comment is tantamount to calling someone a racist or homophobic in an effort to quell any disagreement or unpopular viewpoint.


STOP PLATE TECTONICS NOW!!! BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. :lol:

 

[billsreef]

While not everyone here arguing against the idea of anthropomorphic global warming is saying we don't have other pollution issues, there are some that seem to be saying we don't have any effect at all. That rates as burying ones head in the sand. There are also people in this argument that seem to think Gore is representative of the scientific community, that is far from the truth. The idea that the scientific community has a vested interest in promoting AGW is also ludicrous.

 

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12979631#post12979631 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
While not everyone here arguing against the idea of anthropomorphic global warming is saying we don't have other pollution issues, there are some that seem to be saying we don't have any effect at all. That rates as burying ones head in the sand.

So... it's anthropomorphic global warming now. :lol:


You just won't give it up will ya?
Your trying to make yet another apples vs oranges argument with your "we don't have other pollution issues" and "we don't have any effect at all" comparison.
Tell ya what...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Rather than waste my own time, I'll encourage you to re-read this thread and quote for me any statement saying that humans don't pollute or "have any effect at all". If you can come up with one and show that the posters intent was to say we don't "have any effect at all" I'll join you in pointing fingers and laughing at them.
Oh...and tang salad...? Thanks for the explanation of solar radiation of a distant star, very informative. No...really. :rolleye1:

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12979770#post12979770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
You just won't give it up will ya?

Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black :lol:

BTW, no has said that there isn't a naturally occurring warming cycle The claim is that our man made contribution of greenhouse gases is effecting the speed of that cycle and quite likely will influence the top end as well as the duration of it. No one (at least in the scientific community) has claimed we caused the cycle.

 

[Kannin]

Scientists do have a vested interest. Most scientists are paid to find a solution to a problem but, not the ones that are studying man made global warming for the government. While I doubt very much that they are evil, or even making up facts... I do think that the fact their funding and financial well being neccessitates the need for "fuzzy math", and the ignoring of facts that would help disprove the theory that they have been charged with the task of proving.

ALGORE is used in this debate because ALGORE has made himself the most popular spokesperson for the movement.

The problem is that we are letting the goverment try to fix this and they have never efficiently fixed anything. We give them close to 50% of our money and they throw countless billions to the ethanol industry without giving thought to it's viability and it's unintended consequences. If ethanol was the answer... it would not need to be subsidized.

They say that new drilling and exploration is only a tempory fix but, it's a fix that we need while private industry finds a better way.

"Government is not the solution to our problems... Government is the problem!"

Ronald Reagan.

While I do not believe that this movement has very much basis in fact, I have invested in green companies... because I am a right-wing capitalist and it would be fiscally unwise to not try to make some money from it.

 

[schulace123]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12980019#post12980019 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black :lol:

BTW, no has said that there isn't a naturally occurring warming cycle The claim is that our man made contribution of greenhouse gases is effecting the speed of that cycle and quite likely will influence the top end as well as the duration of it. No one (at least in the scientific community) has claimed we caused the cycle.

very true....I hate it when people talk crap about Al Gore to, he is someone with a lot of money who is taking action on something that he believes in....I personally don't see a lot of that these days.

 

[Tang Salad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12979770#post12979770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69

Oh...and tang salad...? Thanks for the explanation of solar radiation of a distant star, very informative. No...really. :rolleye1:

Nice. I haven't seen sarcasm used like that since Junior High School.

I must have misunderstood you when you said:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12979770#post12979770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69

Sorry bud...I'm not buying it. Global water vapor can not be measured accurately in any way. Never mind solar radiation.

I took this to mean that you maintain that scientists are unable to measure solar radiation reaching the earth. I pointed out that this is easily done.

So what were you saying there?

 

[Kannin]

This is about liberties. A few pages back... a guy said he wouldn't mind giving some things up to fix the problem. If we start giving up liberties... they will start to take more in the name of global warming. Mark my words!!! We will soon see surcharges for global warming on our power bills. There will be people that are on the government payroll that will come check our meters and assess penalties for over usage. Companies will get over taxed for gloabal warming and pass the costs on to us. People will get sued for being big offenders or possibly go to jail for it. Companies will be forced to employ people that are global warming watchdogs which will raise prices. It would not be a stretch to say that they might even regulate how much beef we can eat because cows actually contribute more greenhouse gases than cars do.

Our government was just supposed to provide us with military protection, infastructure and basic education. They weren't supposed to take half of our money and tell us how aften we can fart. They think it is their job to regulate every industry and they just make it worse.

Take the mortgage crisis for example. I know... how does global warming have anything to do with that? It doesn't... but, the government did. They forced FNMA, FNMC and FHA to loan money to poor people so everyone could live the American dream. Let's face it... some folks should rent. Now they are trying to fix by using our tax dollars to bail out them out.

I'm just saying what was said earlier. The fix will come from the private sector... not the government. But, will lose some liberties in the process.

 

[Kannin]

.

 

[Kannin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12980280#post12980280 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by schulace123
very true....I hate it when people talk crap about Al Gore to, he is someone with a lot of money who is taking action on something that he believes in....I personally don't see a lot of that these days.

If he truly believed in it for reasons other than his own self interests... he would conserve. And, he does not.