Any one know why "A reef in a sky scraper" thread got locked?

[sahin]

However great his LEDs, his tank or even his personality, he falsely represented who he was. That my friends is dishonest and not something I personally take lightly, besides if he is willing to do this....how do you trust any of his statements or claims.

Just my opinion on the matter....

I completely understand your stance on this. And agree that many wont take it in the same way as some.

One thing though, if I remember correctly, I recall that he works in the IT field and perhaps Howard was simply doing the website design/maintenance etc for Maxspect and perhaps that is all it is?

 

[sahin]

Tony, I tried to PM you, but it looks like you have disabled PM's to you.

 

[fcmatt]

I completely understand your stance on this. And agree that many wont take it in the same way as some.

One thing though, if I remember correctly, I recall that he works in the IT field and perhaps Howard was simply doing the website design/maintenance etc for Maxspect and perhaps that is all it is?

"I also can't say enough good stuff about Howard at Maxspect. He's been utterly invaluable through this whole escapade. That guy really knows good customer service, no doubt about it.

-Hans"

A post from a person with a maxspect light, in the maxspect thread, getting support
from Howard.

 

[fcmatt]

I am confused a bit about this person's tank. So you admire it. I understand that. But how
in the world do you know if this tank is what I would call a normal situation? For all I know
this tank had the finest of everything put into it, big bucks spent beyond what most spend,
and otherwise maintained as a show piece so the astroturfing of the lights was a success?

If a coral was bought from the store/online, and if it did not color up to expectations, it could
be given away and another 100+ dollar piece dropped in. Repeat, repeat, repeat until the
tank looks "perfect". Wow, what great husbandry!

Now I am not going to go back and find the original thread and look through pages and
pages to confirm any of this.. but this is how I think now. If I was this person and I wanted
to "advertise" my company via a show tank... well.. i would make darn sure everything was
perfect and put quite a bit of time, resources, and money so it would be awesome and
thus advertise the lighting hanging above it. It worked for him.... why not me? I will order
some today!

But eh.. i am no longer curious. This has happened before around here and life moves on. I said
my piece and will shut up now.

 

[racedout]

Yep I saw that post also. Very interesting.

Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express

 

[JaneG]

I am confused a bit about this person's tank. So you admire it. I understand that. But how
in the world do you know if this tank is what I would call a normal situation? For all I know
this tank had the finest of everything put into it, big bucks spent beyond what most spend,
and otherwise maintained as a show piece so the astroturfing of the lights was a success?

If a coral was bought from the store/online, and if it did not color up to expectations, it could
be given away and another 100+ dollar piece dropped in. Repeat, repeat, repeat until the
tank looks "perfect". Wow, what great husbandry!

Well for one, he lists all of his equipment, so we do know how much he put into that portion. Also, a lot of his corals are "common pieces," such as ponape birdsnest, pink birdsnest, sunset millepora, etc. He even has a thread posting the growth of his frags, so your theory of him trading in his corals doesn't really hold up (and to sarcastically remark "Wow, what great husbandry!" is insulting to him, in my opinion).

I'm not going to try to defend the fact that he didn't disclose he was an employee. But at the same time, the point of his topic was that LEDs can grow SPS - not just that maxspect fixtures can. He wasn't raving on and on about that particular fixture (at least, I didn't feel that way?). And even beyond that, for whatever reason, we've all decided to make lighting choices such an overly controversial subject. If a vortech dealer uses a vortech in their build without disclosing that they're an employee, should they be banned? No... unless you're skewing the results, it's just showing what a product can do. Just my opinion though... :strange:

 

[dvanacker]

It seems honesty has little value. I remember reading the post when his maxspect lighting arrived and he was opening boxes. He did spend much time talking about his lighting.....with out disclosing that he works there. Now why would he do this? I'm sure he didn't forget. It was intentional deception......plain and simple. Why anybody would give a pass for this is beyond me.

And for the record if someone from any company comes on here and talks about a product at all with out disclosing the fact that they have a monetary interest in said product....well I hope they get banned too.

Sorry but I do feel that there is a lot of deception in this hobby-business.

 

[westreef]

Well for one, he lists all of his equipment, so we do know how much he put into that portion. Also, a lot of his corals are "common pieces," such as ponape birdsnest, pink birdsnest, sunset millepora, etc. He even has a thread posting the growth of his frags, so your theory of him trading in his corals doesn't really hold up (and to sarcastically remark "Wow, what great husbandry!" is insulting to him, in my opinion).

I'm not going to try to defend the fact that he didn't disclose he was an employee. But at the same time, the point of his topic was that LEDs can grow SPS - not just that maxspect fixtures can. He wasn't raving on and on about that particular fixture (at least, I didn't feel that way?). And even beyond that, for whatever reason, we've all decided to make lighting choices such an overly controversial subject. If a vortech dealer uses a vortech in their build without disclosing that they're an employee, should they be banned? No... unless you're skewing the results, it's just showing what a product can do. Just my opinion though... :strange:

Well said. IMHO

 

[fcmatt]

Ok. I will admit my remark about husbandry was in poor taste. I apologize for that.

I am on my first day of vacation so I have way too much time on my hands right now
and the wife is at work. So i wanted to breeze through the thread and collect
some pics for a summary.

Everyone can take a peak and see the progression.

My favorite comment in the thread related to this post was this below:

"Quote: Originally Posted by gorally
Just curious, did you get your Maxspect at local store?

Mine? Yeah of course."

11/05/2010 - old 20 gallon on first page of the thread

12/19/2010 - 1 year ago. The new tank.

01/08/2011

03/13/2011

04/17/2011

04/30/2011

06/09/2011

09/04/2011

10/26/2011

12/06/2011

 

[westreef]

I completely understand your stance on this. And agree that many wont take it in the same way as some.

One thing though, if I remember correctly, I recall that he works in the IT field and perhaps Howard was simply doing the website design/maintenance etc for Maxspect and perhaps that is all it is?

Sahin,
You are right. He is an IT person.

 

[cthedaytrader]

I have no idea what happened with this individual, but if it is true that he had an afifilation with the company and failed to disclose it then I would hope he would be banned as well.

I have been on this forum for over ten years, and I think the primary reason for this forum has always been for hobbyist to share information. Often, that information is about new products and new technologies that come along, with LEDs being the "latest and greatest". I am sure many of us have researched them on here, and have read a lot of expereinces with them. I find it particulary troubling such an expensive and newly hyped technology in the hobby.

Hobbyist, especially newer ones often see one or two amazing tanks using a new product, and it always seems like a great way to launch a product or start a craze in this hobby. If companies were allowed to portray themselves as simply hobbyist starting a tank, and then show amazing pictures of their results, I am sure I am not the only one who would want to know that that person happens to have a monetary stake in the company before I decided to use their product. It would also allow me to evaulate the source of the information. I am sure we would all give more credibility to a fellow hobbyist than someone who owns or works for the company and I am sure any company know that as well.

I know if I purchased a Maxpect, (and I was looking at them when they were released), based on looking at this tank, and then I learned he worked for the company and I wasn't happy with the results on top of it, I would be ****ed. For me its just plain false advertising.

If someone will not disclose that they are affilated with the company then they clearly have something to hide, and I dont see how the thread, the pics or what is said in it can be trusted. Why not simply disclose that you are affiliated with the product, better yet, why not post this tank on the Maxspect website, or start a vendor forum to display what your product can do, unless of course you wish to deceive the customer.

If he is an IT guy I am sure it would have been easy to post his tank on a Maxpect forum. I find it really funny that someone asked him where he got it and he just agreed that "of course he got it from a local store." Why not admit you affilation with the company at that point?

How could you give any credit to the tank or pictures if they wont even admit that?

 

[edsreef]

For all we know he could've had a light rack with 400W halide radiums to grow and color up his corals then switch to another rack with maxspects to photograph them.
Make you wonder.

 

[reefgeezer]

Personally, I come to RC to get advise from hobbyists who have nothing to sell. If I wanted to seek advice from people who have more interest in profiting from my failures than contributing in the the success of my tank, I'd go to a LFS. If the thread in question was closed because of an undisclosed interest, I absolutely agree with the decision and commend the moderators who did it.

 

[JaneG]

For all we know he could've had a light rack with 400W halide radiums to grow and color up his corals then switch to another rack with maxspects to photograph them.
Make you wonder.

Don't you think that's a bit ludicrous? :lol: I don't think it's very fair for us to be making up stories about him without him being able to defend himself here. After rereading the thread as well, I didn't really find any post where he was trying to "sell" the fixture - he even mentioned some of the negative things about the fixture (ex. "it doesn't have dimming and USB connectivitiy"). As I said earlier, I don't think he was trying to deceive anybody - just showing what the product can do.

 

[fcmatt]

Don't you think that's a bit ludicrous? :lol: I don't think it's very fair for us to be making up stories about him without him being able to defend himself here. After rereading the thread as well, I didn't really find any post where he was trying to "sell" the fixture - he even mentioned some of the negative things about the fixture (ex. "it doesn't have dimming and USB connectivitiy"). As I said earlier, I don't think he was trying to deceive anybody - just showing what the product can do.

Did you see his other main post where he gets the new ?mazara? maxspect
fixture and basically starts by showing the stuff in the delivery box, a play
by play of it being assembled, and finally going up on a tank? It then moves
on to Par readings, power usage, specs.

Get this, and I quote: "I just look up the Maxspect site and saw they posted the updated specs:" His name is embedded in html of the very page he says
was "just posted".

meta name="title" content="Mazarra Specifications" >
meta name="author" content="Howard Roy" >

Or perhaps you missed a post by Hans on this forum where Howard is now giving
support for maxspect products? Or maybe he is just so concerned for other
users on this forum using maxspect products he will send you free replacement
parts?

"I also can't say enough good stuff about Howard at Maxspect. He's been utterly invaluable through this whole escapade. That guy really knows good customer service, no doubt about it.

-Hans"

Or perhaps you have always wondered what Acrotrdco stood for?
How about Acropora Trading Company. Gee, who owns that domain. Currently
nothing there to see but that is a darn good guess what it stands for. Lets see:

AcroporaTrading.com
Administrative Contact:
Acropora Trading Co. Ltd.
Karen Kwong ()
+852.69377208
Fax:
21A 128 Wellington Street
Central, HK NOT APP
HK

Now lets compare that to maxspectusa.com
Administrative Contact:
N/A
Howard Roy ()
21A 128 Wellington Street
Central, HK NOT APP
HK
Tel: +852.95262875
Fax:

Same address..

Ludicrous? Perhaps... but all the questions being raised are now reasonable
once you dig deeper into the astroturfing of a product that he was obviously
connected to in some fashion.. IT/support/and an interest in the business
aspect of the hobby.

 

[JaneG]

I certainly did read that, and I understand that he works for the company - I'm not defending that (he most certainly should have disclosed that he works for maxspect). However, I'm saying that it didn't seem like (to me at least) that he was trying to "sell" the fixture (ex. making claims like "omg greatest fixture ever"). Instead, he was merely showcasing what it can do... that's not deception. Again, just my opinion. :wave:

 

[dvanacker]

So what could be his motivation for deceiving people, if not concern for sales and monetary gain?

Sponsors here carry his product...he could have easily showcased his reef, light and anything else while disclosing his business ties with maxspect.

 

[stevedola]

He misrepresented himself as just another reefer with LEDs...bottom line. It doesn't matter if he was right or wrong about the product and its effectiveness his opinion is bias and once you enter a discussion under false pretenses all of the information taken from you is tainted. The fact that he knowingly engaged in deception is to gain your trust just like a con man does. A con-man doesn't say he's a con-man, he gains your trust under false pretenses (IE. impersonating police, doctor, priest, friend) and then sells you on his story for personal gain. I would find it hard to believe he did not gain in some way from this action otherwise he would have disclosed his affiliation. The fact that he did this on multiple sites speaks to that point. Believe what you will but he engaged this community falsely and deserves to be ban even if no one purchased a single maxspect product because of his accounts and endorsement (which I would find hard to believe). The RC staff work hard to make this a community of hobbiest which is the main reason I have (and many others) participated through out the years...otherwise this site would be nothing more than a corporate puppet to fleece our pockets.

 

[sirreal63]

He misrepresented himself as just another reefer with LEDs...bottom line. It doesn't matter if he was right or wrong about the product and its effectiveness his opinion is bias and once you enter a discussion under false pretenses all of the information taken from you is tainted. The fact that he knowingly engaged in deception is to gain your trust just like a con man does. A con-man doesn't say he's a con-man, he gains your trust under false pretenses (IE. impersonating police, doctor, priest, friend) and then sells you on his story for personal gain. I would find it hard to believe he did not gain in some way from this action otherwise he would have disclosed his affiliation. The fact that he did this on multiple sites speaks to that point. Believe what you will but he engaged this community falsely and deserves to be ban even if no one purchased a single maxspect product because of his accounts and endorsement (which I would find hard to believe). The RC staff work hard to make this a community of hobbiest which is the main reason I have (and many others) participated through out the years...otherwise this site would be nothing more than a corporate puppet to fleece our pockets.

Well said Steve, and 100% correct. The guy had a hidden agenda and like all of the others over the years, they get ferreted out and removed. He was more careful than many of the others but eventually they get found and removed.

 

[pompeyjohn]

Subterfuge aside, it was an incredible build. It also raises an interesting question;

To what length can a company fund [or provide equipment towards] a build before it is considered inappropriate?