Any serious SPS collectors use LED?

[SPS_Addiction]

just trying to see how many serious SPS collectors out there are using LED's in their display tank. are you happy with your switch to LED's? Anyone go back to using hallides/T5 from LED's?
I'm using T5's right now and I've tried LED's a couple times now and have always gone back to either halide or T5 fixtures because I'm either unhappy with the puny spread of LED fixtures or color just doesn't look right to me. Some of the LED lit SPS tank that I've seen personally also just doesn't look very appealing.

 

[Whiterabbitrage]

Following! Which types of LEDs have you tried? Any high end stuff? And what about the LEDs did you find unappealing? Was it the coloring was not natural or....? JW

 

[SPS_Addiction]

first LED I tried were Orphek, then back to T5, then Reefbreeders. I loved how the blue LED's make everything look nice in tank, just doesn't look very natural to me. and I hated the shadowing and narrow spread, even with 120 optics. I have to buy more expensive fixtures just to cover my tank like T5 does. I just don't think value is there because I want total coverage over my tank and would need double the recommended fixtures to cover like T5. + I don't know if cheaper LED's (bridgelux) really do last for 10 years without loss of power of spectrum shift.

 

[Arkayology]

I don't know how high end you are looking for, jrpdriver has a nice tank with some more LE pieces lit by a radion and kessels http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2256865&page=4

 

[SPS_Addiction]

I don't know how high end you are looking for, jrpdriver has a nice tank with some more LE pieces lit by a radion and kessels http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2256865&page=4

i've bought corals from him before he has a nice tank. but it's a smaller cube. I have a 48x24" tank and I have SPS all over the place. I would have to buy a bunch of radians going turned front to back to light my whole tank. It's just not worth spending $4000+ in LED when I can use halide or T5 to cover whole tank.

 

[swk]

From what I've read and seen, and a bit of experience, generally speaking you get what you pay for with led fixtures. Those with successful led lit SPS tanks seem to use radions, hydra 52s, etc. there are those that are having success with reefbreeders and other budget fixtures, but seems to be few and far between.

The second thing is those led success stories use FAR more fixtures than often used by the average keeper. Instead of 3 radions over a 180, people are using 6....does that make sense?

For example - I was at vivid aquariums recently and was looking at their 800 gal display. This tank is lit half with 20k radiums and half with radions. Now, no joke, they had radions stacked on this thing. They were practically touching over the entire footprint of the tank. I can't remember exactly, but there were at least 8 fixtures on a 5x3.5 ft area.

For me, I started with leds and just couldn't figure them out. I used cheap reef radiance fixtures and couldn't keep sps alive to save my life. Things did a dramatic 180 after I moved on to ATI t5 fixtures and bulbs. I'll never go back unless I can use radions, and supplement with t5s.

 

[ajcanale]

This should answer your question....

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2290355

 

[jda]

Some of the longer term LED supporters on this board have since moved either partially, or completely, to MH in the past few years. A lot of the people in the first few pages of the listed thread don't use LED anymore.

Personally, I have seen some that are OK, but they are like betting on the exception. The good ones that I have seen have 3 or 4 panels where i would keep on good MH.

 

[MisterP]

It's just not worth spending $4000+ in LED when I can use halide or T5 to cover whole tank.

That's your answer.

I have a Hydra52 covering a 20g tank right now. The coverage IMO for SPS is only about 15"x15". I still get shadowing in my small tank.

I think for a normal 48"x24"x18" tank to get complete coverage with no shading you would need no less than 5 Radions or Hydra52, etc.

When my new 50"x24"x18" tank arrives it will be lit by T5's and possibly some LED strips just for supplement.

I couldn't justify the energy, bulb, heat savings compared to the $$$$. My 48" ATI fixture was like $650 with bulbs. If I were going all LED it would be 6 Hydra52* $500 each = about $3000. 8 bulbs annually at $22 per = $176 annually.

So....$650 fixture including 8 bulbs
$176 annually for replacements
$176*13 years worth of bulbs=$2288

$650+$2288=$2938------This is a T5 fixture and 13 years worth of bulbs for the same LED coverage. Factor in a slight energy savings with LED and the payback is still in the 8-10 year range.

How many people do you know that keep a fixture or tank for that length of time....not many.

Also, one last thought. The life on most of the LEDs is going to be in that 10 year range so by the time you reach payback you're essentially starting over.

 

[SPS_Addiction]

Thanks guys. I'm definitely just going to stick with my trusty ATI T5 fixture.

 

[rtague]

That's your answer.

I have a Hydra52 covering a 20g tank right now. The coverage IMO for SPS is only about 15"x15". I still get shadowing in my small tank.

I think for a normal 48"x24"x18" tank to get complete coverage with no shading you would need no less than 5 Radions or Hydra52, etc.

When my new 50"x24"x18" tank arrives it will be lit by T5's and possibly some LED strips just for supplement.

I couldn't justify the energy, bulb, heat savings compared to the $$$$. My 48" ATI fixture was like $650 with bulbs. If I were going all LED it would be 6 Hydra52* $500 each = about $3000. 8 bulbs annually at $22 per = $176 annually.

So....$650 fixture including 8 bulbs
Great post.
$176 annually for replacements
$176*13 years worth of bulbs=$2288

$650+$2288=$2938------This is a T5 fixture and 13 years worth of bulbs for the same LED coverage. Factor in a slight energy savings with LED and the payback is still in the 8-10 year range.

How many people do you know that keep a fixture or tank for that length of time....not many.

Also, one last thought. The life on most of the LEDs is going to be in that 10 year range so by the time you reach payback you're essentially starting over.

Great post..

 

[MisterP]

Honestly after thinking about it again....if you were to pack a tank full of Radions or Hydras you would actually be using more watts than a 8x54 T5 unit. So, really the payback would be closer to the 12-13 year mark.

 

[vette.tech]

I made the switch about 3 months ago from led to mh. Now that it's been some time I can say with certainty that it's not even fair to compare led to mh. I had sps growth and what LOOKED to be color.....until the halides went in and everything was blahhhh. Now that my corals are truly coloring up it's like a whole new tank, and the brightness level in the tank is orders of magnitude more enjoyable. LEDs work and work well enough for most, but anyone serious about sps should have halides. That being said I'd love to put some blue strips in to accent at night my wife really missed that look and I'd be curious to see how it pops now seeing as I'm only using 2x250 radium unsupplemented

 

[cdmurphy]

I made the switch from T5's to Led's back in January and I can honestly say that I am much happier with the LED's than I ever was with T5's. I've never run Halides so I can't speak for them. The color of my SPS under LED's is more intense and vibrant. I don't get as much growth under the LED's as I did under T5's but that may be due to the program I'm running but I am getting good growth and I'm willing to sacrifice that due to the looks of the tank and the colors I'm getting from my SPS. Halides may be the way to go but the heat they generate and the expense of having to run a chiller doesn't appeal to me. Just my 2 cents on the LED debate, you can definitely grow SPS under them.

 

[ZON]

That's your answer.

I have a Hydra52 covering a 20g tank right now. The coverage IMO for SPS is only about 15"x15". I still get shadowing in my small tank.

I think for a normal 48"x24"x18" tank to get complete coverage with no shading you would need no less than 5 Radions or Hydra52, etc.

When my new 50"x24"x18" tank arrives it will be lit by T5's and possibly some LED strips just for supplement.

I couldn't justify the energy, bulb, heat savings compared to the $$$$. My 48" ATI fixture was like $650 with bulbs. If I were going all LED it would be 6 Hydra52* $500 each = about $3000. 8 bulbs annually at $22 per = $176 annually.

So....$650 fixture including 8 bulbs
$176 annually for replacements
$176*13 years worth of bulbs=$2288

$650+$2288=$2938------This is a T5 fixture and 13 years worth of bulbs for the same LED coverage. Factor in a slight energy savings with LED and the payback is still in the 8-10 year range.

How many people do you know that keep a fixture or tank for that length of time....not many.

Also, one last thought. The life on most of the LEDs is going to be in that 10 year range so by the time you reach payback you're essentially starting over.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

+1

 

[cdmurphy]

That's your answer.

I have a Hydra52 covering a 20g tank right now. The coverage IMO for SPS is only about 15"x15". I still get shadowing in my small tank.

I think for a normal 48"x24"x18" tank to get complete coverage with no shading you would need no less than 5 Radions or Hydra52, etc.

When my new 50"x24"x18" tank arrives it will be lit by T5's and possibly some LED strips just for supplement.

I couldn't justify the energy, bulb, heat savings compared to the $$$$. My 48" ATI fixture was like $650 with bulbs. If I were going all LED it would be 6 Hydra52* $500 each = about $3000. 8 bulbs annually at $22 per = $176 annually.

So....$650 fixture including 8 bulbs
$176 annually for replacements
$176*13 years worth of bulbs=$2288

$650+$2288=$2938------This is a T5 fixture and 13 years worth of bulbs for the same LED coverage. Factor in a slight energy savings with LED and the payback is still in the 8-10 year range.

How many people do you know that keep a fixture or tank for that length of time....not many.

Also, one last thought. The life on most of the LEDs is going to be in that 10 year range so by the time you reach payback you're essentially starting over.

Can't say that I agree with the amount of fixture you're saying you would need over a four foot tank. I run four fixtures over my 240 gallon (96x24x24) and do not have any shadowing. My LED's are 15 inches above the water line and running at only 60% which give me plenty of coverage and I'm able to grow SPS anywhere in the tank. I would like to have access to a PAR meter to actually see what the values. I also have a buddy who is running 4 Hydra's over a 300 DD tank and his tank has no shadowing and another that is running 3 radions over a 260 gallon (84x30x24) and again no shadowing effect. I think its all about the height above the waterline that you mount your lights at. LED's have plenty of water penetrating intensity and I think the reason that most people have trouble with LED's is that the either run them to high resulting in bleaching or to low resulting in browning out.

 

[jda]

Use a T5 fixture that covers front-to-back or a MH with a big reflector and you will see what people are talking about with shadowing. I totally get where you are coming from with your experience, but I recently saw a 300DD with 9 Radion 3 Pros and there was tons of shadowing similar to using a MH with a super small reflector.

Edit: the Hamilton Bell Pendants (and the like) are what I was referring to that also give shadows.

 

[cdmurphy]

Use a T5 fixture that covers front-to-back or a MH with a big reflector and you will see what people are talking about with shadowing. I totally get where you are coming from with your experience, but I recently saw a 300DD with 9 Radion 3 Pros and there was tons of shadowing similar to using a MH with a super small reflector.

Edit: the Hamilton Bell Pendants (and the like) are what I was referring to that also give shadows.

How high were the radions mounted above the water line? I'm not an advocate for LED lighting but just reflecting on my experience. I have a 90 gallon with an ATI Powermodule that covers front to back, end to end and although I have good growth I still can not maintain the colors of my sps that I'm getting from the LED's and I replace the bulbs every six months. Don't get me wrong, I love the Powermodule, I think its the best T5 fixture you can buy but in my experience T5's just don't give the same pop as the LED's do.

A friend of mine runs a tank maintenance business with very high end clients. He is slowly transitioning all of his clients to Radions and is having very good success with them.

 

[jda]

They were like 12-14 inches.

We saw the cycle here with maintenance accounts. I might suggest that you tell him not to sell the old lights right away. After 6-12 months, the clients were quite unhappy when the LED had to actually color the coral and not just fluoresce the true color that coral got under a better light source. He had sold all of the MH for dirt cheap and then had to buy stuff back at full price and had lots of unhappy clients.

 

[MisterP]

Can't say that I agree with the amount of fixture you're saying you would need over a four foot tank. I run four fixtures over my 240 gallon (96x24x24) and do not have any shadowing. My LED's are 15 inches above the water line and running at only 60% which give me plenty of coverage and I'm able to grow SPS anywhere in the tank. I would like to have access to a PAR meter to actually see what the values. I also have a buddy who is running 4 Hydra's over a 300 DD tank and his tank has no shadowing and another that is running 3 radions over a 260 gallon (84x30x24) and again no shadowing effect. I think its all about the height above the waterline that you mount your lights at. LED's have plenty of water penetrating intensity and I think the reason that most people have trouble with LED's is that the either run them to high resulting in bleaching or to low resulting in browning out.

Well I can't say I agree with you either. I have used MH and switchedto LED , Hydra52 on my 20 gallon tank due to heat issues. I can promise you I have shading in my 20 gallon with one Hydra 52 14 inches off water. I would not use any less than 5 high end LED units on a 4 ft tank FROM MY EXPERIENCE.