Anyone doing a water change soon
- Thread starter sandman12
- Start date
LiquidCache
New member
Yeah this sounds like a bad idea all around..
rogergolf66
im an addict lol
It's not a good idea. What's the goal using old water? Old water has almost no good just negatives. The water it self holds very little beneficial bacteria in it. The bacteria is on the hard surfaces of the tank not much free floating in the water. The only reason I could think to do this is if you can't afford the water. If that's the case I would recommend setting up a nano tank so u could keep cost down.
So many different opinions. Water does contain beneficial bacteria and if you are not stocking really quickly I wouldn't worry about ich. As far as I have always been told every reef tank has ich in it.
I would want cleaner water to start a tank with though. Nutrient wise. I would add 5-10 gallons from someone I trusted to a 50 gallon is all. The rest fresh mixed.
Brightwell,prodibio and zeovit make products to get your cycle started quickly if you are paranoid about someone else's water.
I would want cleaner water to start a tank with though. Nutrient wise. I would add 5-10 gallons from someone I trusted to a 50 gallon is all. The rest fresh mixed.
Brightwell,prodibio and zeovit make products to get your cycle started quickly if you are paranoid about someone else's water.
rogergolf66
im an addict lol
Agree water does contain beneficial bacteria but compared to the hard surfaces of the tank it is minimal. If you ask this question about using old water when swapping a tank or starting a new tank. The top chemistry guys all agree that using the old water is not recommended. Same reasons already stated. To me the only reason to use old water is in a tank swap is when the same anamals are moving to a new tank this is just to help them acclimate since they were in that water before, and I still would try not to use more then 50% of the old water.
Can u elaborate as to why use 5-10 gal of established old water? What's the benefit of the old water?
I would never use someone elses old water.
There is no benefits, other then free salt water and nitrate.
If you want to cycle the tank in a modern way and have 100% control of the cycle.
Then do this.
You want to have 3 ppm ammonia in your tank.
Add 1 drop of Ammonium Chloride Solution (I use Dr Tim's Aquatics, cheap) per gallon of aquarium water.
Wait till you get 0 ammonia, 0 Nitrite.
Repeat above, but this time, the cycle needs to be in 24h, if not then you keep doing it till you get within a 24h cycle.
Ammonia > Nitrite Happens fast.
Nitrite > Nitrate Takes forever.
I do not use the skimmer or a sock, I do not want any beneficial bacteria growing in there at this point.
You can dump a bottle of Nitrifying Bacteria by Dr Tim's Aquatics (not so cheap) for a faster cycle.
This is what i do, it goes fast and no mini cycle later on, getting a tank to cycle 3 ppm of ammonia in 24h makes a tank very stable for a good size livestock bio load right off in the beginning.
This is 100% control. You cannot control how much ammonia your going to get with a dead shrimp.
Too little ammonia, you will not have a full cycle done.
Too much ammonia, you might not even cycle for a long time, it will not allow the bacteria cycle correctly.
No stress to the fishy.
There is no benefits, other then free salt water and nitrate.
If you want to cycle the tank in a modern way and have 100% control of the cycle.
Then do this.
You want to have 3 ppm ammonia in your tank.
Add 1 drop of Ammonium Chloride Solution (I use Dr Tim's Aquatics, cheap) per gallon of aquarium water.
Wait till you get 0 ammonia, 0 Nitrite.
Repeat above, but this time, the cycle needs to be in 24h, if not then you keep doing it till you get within a 24h cycle.
Ammonia > Nitrite Happens fast.
Nitrite > Nitrate Takes forever.
I do not use the skimmer or a sock, I do not want any beneficial bacteria growing in there at this point.
You can dump a bottle of Nitrifying Bacteria by Dr Tim's Aquatics (not so cheap) for a faster cycle.
This is what i do, it goes fast and no mini cycle later on, getting a tank to cycle 3 ppm of ammonia in 24h makes a tank very stable for a good size livestock bio load right off in the beginning.
This is 100% control. You cannot control how much ammonia your going to get with a dead shrimp.
Too little ammonia, you will not have a full cycle done.
Too much ammonia, you might not even cycle for a long time, it will not allow the bacteria cycle correctly.
No stress to the fishy.
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snake1
Premium Member
Wow I was gonna do this on the new 30 gallon softy tank I'm starting soon and already have 30 gallons set aside ....so by leaving my old water in buckets for a couple of weeks is bad too.....not cheap and afraid of using new salt just figured the old water has some beneficial bacteria....
One benefit would be to obtain a bacterial culture. Say for my tank I had absolutely dead and acid washed rock. I myself added bacteria. Not likely that anyone is willing to give away a hard surface from their tank so water is better than nothing. I am not a scientist nor will I be caught using the terms pretending that I am but I do know what appears to work for myself and my system of the week.
If you think you are going to get a measurable amount of nitrates from everyone's tank we must all be doing it wrong.
Roger,
As for the 10-20% it's just a rough number I threw out. No science but I do want my tank to be somewhat close to the parameters I want to run. The salt I choose to run is somewhat close to the parameters I want to keep normally so having more of my own new water would ensure I was somewhat close to that.
If you think you are going to get a measurable amount of nitrates from everyone's tank we must all be doing it wrong.
Roger,
As for the 10-20% it's just a rough number I threw out. No science but I do want my tank to be somewhat close to the parameters I want to run. The salt I choose to run is somewhat close to the parameters I want to keep normally so having more of my own new water would ensure I was somewhat close to that.
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Fishmaster13
New member
I wouldn't use old water sure there might be some benificial bacteria in there but there could also be problems such as ich. I had an ich problem last month that killed 3 of my fish if I gave you that water you might get a small trace of that ich that's left in the water (although im pretty sure it's gone by now). Also try your LFS mine sells premixed saltwater and benificial bacteria in bottles. There are many brands but I usually use "stability." It's free from harmful parasites and loaded with only benificial bacteria. Hope I helped!
rogergolf66
im an addict lol
I also am not a chemist this is why I have asked simalar questions to the chemists on the forum. That is where the info I am passing along comes from. What ever u decide I wish u luck with ur new tank.
Roger
Sandman you can have some water from my tank but I will only be doing a 10ish gallon water change. If you decide to go this route. My rock was in a brute can after acid and ro washes for about 4 months. It has been in my new tank since the end of August. Last week I checked and had undetectable NItrates. PO4 on my Hanna Checker is .04 and on a more expensive meter belonging to Emmett .01. No idea what it truly is. Alk 8ish, Mag.1300ish and Calcium 420ish.
Unfortunately some of the real scientists have killed in mass quantities many reef tanks in the past including mine. Think Chrystal Seas for instance. Really Deep Sandbeds is another scientist idea. Works well for a little while of course. I didn't include Chemists because I don't want anyone thinking I am talking about Randy. Totally not him.
I would be 100% more worried about transferring livestock into my tank and bringing any sort of pest in than from someone's water column. Again, this is just my opinion.
Unfortunately some of the real scientists have killed in mass quantities many reef tanks in the past including mine. Think Chrystal Seas for instance. Really Deep Sandbeds is another scientist idea. Works well for a little while of course. I didn't include Chemists because I don't want anyone thinking I am talking about Randy. Totally not him.
I would be 100% more worried about transferring livestock into my tank and bringing any sort of pest in than from someone's water column. Again, this is just my opinion.
Just throwing in my 2¢... It goes back to the general rule of never putting LFS water in your tank. You just don't know what could be in it. Ich spores, Dinoflagellate spores, Bryopsis spores, etc, etc. I would say the same rule applies for a fellow reefers water. They might not even know they have it in their system and their system is able to keep it in check, but perhaps your system won't and therefore you've intentionally created a problem.
I'm not a scientist, so the following statement may be totally false, but I have had absolutely zero nuisance algae in my tank other than diatoms and common green algae, which may very well be green coralline. My tank has been running for 8 months and has a heavy bio load. I was not patient, but my maintenance and research has been vigorous. I try to get my nitrates to zero, but average 5. Who knows what my phosphates are. I've never checked with a Hanna meter. So could this be because those spores simply were never introduced. I've dipped and brushed and removed frag plugs and tried my best to not introduce anything I don't want to deal with. I don't know for certain the answer to that, but starting from a clean slate I'd like to believe that at least some of those nuisances simply are not present. Or if they were introduced maybe my UV zapped them before they every had a chance. For months I've been waiting for something to pop up as I was told to be ready for the uglies in the first year, yet there's been nothing. Just corals and coralline encrusting my rocks. I'm certain using dry rock was very helpful too.
So, I don't know, but personally I would want to make every effort to insure nothing is introduced. And everything I said in the previous paragraph could be total bs and it's just coincidence and because I've posted this the reefing gods will now ***** slap me with all of the above pests.
I'm not a scientist, so the following statement may be totally false, but I have had absolutely zero nuisance algae in my tank other than diatoms and common green algae, which may very well be green coralline. My tank has been running for 8 months and has a heavy bio load. I was not patient, but my maintenance and research has been vigorous. I try to get my nitrates to zero, but average 5. Who knows what my phosphates are. I've never checked with a Hanna meter. So could this be because those spores simply were never introduced. I've dipped and brushed and removed frag plugs and tried my best to not introduce anything I don't want to deal with. I don't know for certain the answer to that, but starting from a clean slate I'd like to believe that at least some of those nuisances simply are not present. Or if they were introduced maybe my UV zapped them before they every had a chance. For months I've been waiting for something to pop up as I was told to be ready for the uglies in the first year, yet there's been nothing. Just corals and coralline encrusting my rocks. I'm certain using dry rock was very helpful too.
So, I don't know, but personally I would want to make every effort to insure nothing is introduced. And everything I said in the previous paragraph could be total bs and it's just coincidence and because I've posted this the reefing gods will now ***** slap me with all of the above pests.
rogergolf66
im an addict lol
I will try and find the response to my question on the using old water. I beleive that Randy was one of the ones that answered the question for me. I have to go back years to find it but I will try and find the response. Ultimately it's your tank. If u want to use someone else's water go right ahead and do so. What ever makes u comfortable.
rogergolf66
im an addict lol
I actually found it pretty quick. RC has great search options
First response was Randy use all new water. He is the main person I wait to respond when I post in chemistry forums.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2158627
First response was Randy use all new water. He is the main person I wait to respond when I post in chemistry forums.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2158627
Honestly after everything considered I will probably just go with new water. I do how ever need to find out more on this new process of cycling. I am only familiar with the dead shrimp or damsel method.
Everyone's input is very appreciated, lots of good minds on this forum.
Thanks
James
Everyone's input is very appreciated, lots of good minds on this forum.
Thanks
James
