Anyone ever consider a NSW business?

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
Premium Member
I wondered if anyone has ever considered a business of collecting NSW and reselling it?

Suck it up from a clean location, filter, and then deliver, either in bulk to people with their own containers (like Brute trash cans) or possibly even drums of some sort.

Any thought on its viability?

Yes, I know of the Catalina water Co., and I'm not local to them so I wouldn't be competing. I'm not sure that "sanitizing" the product is optimal anyway, assuming you do not want to sell boxes at Petco.

I got to thinking of this as I was hauling 10 x 5 gallon buckets of water from the Rockport, MA shore to my car. I would have paid pretty good money to get that delivered. :D
 
Randy, I thought you were a IO kind of guy! ;)

Are you planing on starting the business?

They might already exist in your area. There are several in the San Francisco Bay area. Very handy if you use lots of water and don't want to haul salt.

One of my LFSs gets it delivered.
 
There are several on the West Coast... there are several on the east coast. Just about as many in Florida as well.

There is also boxed NSW... Caribsea comes to mind, as does Julian's new product.

John... I only know of one in the Bay Area (permits aren't easy to obtain)... the other is from Socal. Someone else started one up?
 
In conversations this past spring, the department head of the largest micro algae collection in the world (UT at Austin) told me that synthetic salt will not grow there diverse collection. They collect NSW in estuaries because of the diverse mixing of bacteria.

I tried to sell them some macro algae. He laughed and joked that the board of regents would not tolerate going to the "dark side", as I am a Cajun Aggie.
Patrick
 
In conversations this past spring, the department head of the largest micro algae collection in the world (UT at Austin) told me that synthetic salt will not grow there diverse collection. They collect NSW in estuaries because of the diverse mixing of bacteria.

I tried to sell them some macro algae. He laughed and joked that the board of regents would not tolerate going to the "dark side", as I am a Cajun Aggie.
Patrick

Strange... https://ncma.bigelow.org/ has always been touted among phycologiosts as to be the largest. I tend to trust phycologists on this one, its what they live for.

We are the worlds largest producer of marine phytoplankton concentrates. I can tell you what they said is NOT TRUE for us. With a million + gallons in production, shipping that much water is very cost prohibitive. Not to mention you need to stelize the water prior to use, thus killing what ever they thought was in there.
 
Randy,

If I had the money when I was still on LI, I would have been very tempted to have gone into that business. I expect your Rockport water would be just as good. Nice and clean up that way.

In conversations this past spring, the department head of the largest micro algae collection in the world (UT at Austin) told me that synthetic salt will not grow there diverse collection. They collect NSW in estuaries because of the diverse mixing of bacteria.

I find that interesting, as I've always worked with axenic micro algae cultures. With NSW, this means sterilizing the water for my stock sub cultures and step cultures, and UV filtered or very clean uncontaminated SW well water for the large production cultures.
 
Strange... https://ncma.bigelow.org/ has always been touted among phycologiosts as to be the largest. I tend to trust phycologists on this one, its what they live for.

We are the worlds largest producer of marine phytoplankton concentrates. I can tell you what they said is NOT TRUE for us. With a million + gallons in production, shipping that much water is very cost prohibitive. Not to mention you need to stelize the water prior to use, thus killing what ever they thought was in there.

Sir,
You are speaking in terms of phytoplankton and system volume size.

Jerry Brand, heads the Molecular Cell & Developemental Biology College of Natural Science at UT. They seldom grow micro algae except to conduct seminars for phycologiosts from all over the world. He is in his 70's and has traveled across the globe accumulating micro algae collections from academia and private collections for the last 40 years. Their collection is stored with liquid nitrogen and maintained by a staff of researches that take pride in their accomplishment. You should discuss with him, that he needs to sterilize his NSW.
Patrick
 
Strange... https://ncma.bigelow.org/ has always been touted among phycologiosts as to be the largest. I tend to trust phycologists on this one, its what they live for.

Just did some digging, as Bigelow is always the place that comes to my mind. Seems Bigelow is the larges for marine algaes, as it's what they do, along with marine bacteria . UT is largest on the whole (by a small margin) for algae, but that includes FW algae which Bigelow does not do.
 
Randy,

If I had the money when I was still on LI, I would have been very tempted to have gone into that business. I expect your Rockport water would be just as good. Nice and clean up that way.



I find that interesting, as I've always worked with axenic micro algae cultures. With NSW, this means sterilizing the water for my stock sub cultures and step cultures, and UV filtered or very clean uncontaminated SW well water for the large production cultures.


Bill,
I did not probe Jerry when he said that they used NSW. The actual context of the conversation was him asking me if I used NSW as they did. When I showed him my system volumn he acknowledged that it would be too expensive for my commercial operation.
I will send him an email, to ask him if I am out of text with their procedure.
Patrick
 
Just did some digging, as Bigelow is always the place that comes to my mind. Seems Bigelow is the larges for marine algaes, as it's what they do, along with marine bacteria . UT is largest on the whole (by a small margin) for algae, but that includes FW algae which Bigelow does not do.


When I toured their facility, he showed me pictures of fresh water micro algae staining snow with bright colors: some red and some yellow.

Remember, these guys are Texacans. Everything is big in Texas.
Patrick
 
Bill,
I did not probe Jerry when he said that they used NSW. The actual context of the conversation was him asking me if I used NSW as they did. When I showed him my system volumn he acknowledged that it would be too expensive for my commercial operation.
I will send him an email, to ask him if I am out of text with their procedure.
Patrick

Trucking any real quantity of NSW from the coast to Austin would be pretty expensive, even if the water was free.

In regards the NSW and micro algae cultures, there are some microalgaes known not to do well in axenic culture, so it could be those he was referring too. Be curious what he says when you talk to him.

When I toured their facility, he showed me pictures of fresh water micro algae staining snow with bright colors: some red and some yellow.

Remember, these guys are Texacans. Everything is big in Texas.
Patrick

Defiantly some pretty cool algaes out there, both FW and SW. There are some that are impressive red/orange that are found only in high saline ponds. Make those spots look like the surface of a pond at sunset...in the middle of day.
 
Bill,
What are your thoughts of marine phytoplankton on the exterior skin of the space shuttle in deep space.
Patrick
 
Randy, I thought you were a IO kind of guy! ;)

Are you planing on starting the business?

They might already exist in your area. There are several in the San Francisco Bay area. Very handy if you use lots of water and don't want to haul salt.

One of my LFSs gets it delivered.

Early stages of musings, having seen how hard it actually is to collect yourself, and that there are some suitable locations that I know of that might allow commercial collection (haven't checked on permits, however).

I've never seen or heard of it locally, so if there is, they have pretty poor marketing. :D

I do use and like IO, and the price will be almost impossible to beat except very, very local to the source.

The question is whether enough people will pay a significant premium for natural seawater. I could imagine selling it "fresh/raw" with the natural bacteria, or possibly with bacteria killed off somehow (sterilized).
 
Interesting, I don't know what permits and such are required, I am too afraid to inquire from them (The minor business) as I wonder if they did any of it.

As for whether people would do it.. well I find it the most interesting part. I have a close friend who does use the service. He loves it as he has such a large aquarium, and doing a water change would just be a crazy endeavor. While he's got a crazy amount of filtration, he always says that after they do a water exchange (Think in the neighborhood of 200-300 gallons of water) he's yet to find a better reaction from his tank than after doing that service. It also takes minutes for them to do, with no mess (Huge on board pump). So people with large aquariums would definitely be interested, me thinks.

Then there's people with non-sewer systems like septic tanks. I already dread the thought of making more than 10 gallons a week and then having to dump the waste water somewhere outside. It's not good for my yard nor my septic. It's one of the reasons why I upgraded to a 100G display only, as opposed to a 300G as I originally planned. I even asked about a business that you're interested in, but everyone (Even I was suspect) was worried about using water from the Gulf at the time (I live in Southwest Florida).

Anyway hope this helps Randy!
 
Bill,
What are your thoughts of marine phytoplankton on the exterior skin of the space shuttle in deep space.
Patrick

I think the Cosmonaut that found them on the exterior of the space station is correct in his thoughts about air currents carrying them up. Breaking bubbles on the sea surface can project particles at incredible velocities and subsequent travel of very large distances.

Randy,

You might want to check with MIT on the permitting, they run an aquaculture program up there. I expect, like with many areas, the issue isn't pumping in SW, but effluent. So if your not dumping any used water back into the sea, likely no permit needed. Though definitely worth checking for sure, since some places can be more stringent in such things.
 
How much do you want and how much do you want to pay for it?



I can even get it chilled, like here in the snow. It keeps better.



Or if you like, I can get it here which is more Patriotic, but it may have some copper in it.



Or here, but it sometimes smells like Coney Island dirty water hot dogs.



Or if you like, I can get it with a clean up crew already in it.



This Hawaiian water is good, but the shipping is a killer.

 
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Thanks for the comments, folks. Very helpful. :)

Or here, but it sometimes smells like Coney Island dirty water hot dogs.

I think I'd choose the hot dog water. :)
 
Bill,
I did not probe Jerry when he said that they used NSW. The actual context of the conversation was him asking me if I used NSW as they did. When I showed him my system volumn he acknowledged that it would be too expensive for my commercial operation.
I will send him an email, to ask him if I am out of text with their procedure.
Patrick

We get filtered seawater from the Marine Science Institute in Port Aransas, Texas. The water is pumped from about 100 meters off shore into a large settling tank, is generally left undisturbed for multiple days to settle particulates, and then is filtered through a standard string filter before we get it. We collect the filtered seawater in 20-liter hard polyethylene carboys and can store it at room temperature in complete darkness for at least 6 months without any evident microbial growth or salt precipitation.



Near-shore seawater can vary significantly in salinity. Thus, when we are ready to use some of the stored seawater, we check its salinity and (if necessary) add a small amount of distilled water or Instant Ocean to bring the salinity to 30 PPT - within 1 PPM. After adding desired additional nutrients (typically nitrate and/or phosphate), and thorough mixing, we pasteurize it on two successive days, with cooling to room temperature for at least 18 hours between the two heat treatments. This "tyndallization" process is done in glass containers that don't have any internal scratches, in order to avoid seeding crystals that would lead to salt precipitation. If vitamins are required for a particular medium, they are added to the cooled seawater after the final pasteurization. The pasteurized seawater, with or without enrichment, is then kept covered and stored at refrigerator temperature in very dim light or darkness. We prefer to use it for inoculating algae within 2 months after it has been prepared.

Some of our red and green macroalgae can be maintained without disturbance (no mixing or carbon dioxide enrichment) in this media for 6 months or more, where they grow rather slowly without significant contamination under 12h:12h day:night cycle AT relatively low light intensity.

In growing many different strains of marine microalgae and macroalgae, we have not observed any significant differences in the use of natural sea water and Instant Ocean. Transport of natural seawater is somewhat expensive, which we moderate by hauling 150 gallons at a time. I am not certain of the cost difference, when labor is included, between using Instant Ocean and natural seawater.

There are surely significant differences in our requirements and the needs of those who manage large marine aquaria. I would be interested in seeing the comments of those who criticized the use of natural sea water.

Jerry

PS: second email


Hello Patrick,

I don’t want to get into correspondence with this group because of my time constraints. You may post what I wrote, but please first change that “AT” to small letters.

I saw your post and should correct a few points.
I am not the head of a college but am a professor in the Department of Molecular Biosciences at the University of Texas. My other title is Director of the Culture Collection of Algae (known as UTEX) at the University of Texas at Austin. Our collection of microalgae might possibly be the largest and most diverse in the world, but several others are quite comparable in size. Our collection of algae was first established in 1952 as the only major publicly accessible repository of algae in the Americas. The focus was primarily on freshwater and edaphic algae, although some marine microalgae and macroalgae were maintained. The NCMA in Bigelow Maine was established some years later as a marine phytoplankton collection. Since then UTEX and NCMA have remained the primary general repositories of algae in the USA, with UTEX focusing more on freshwater species while NCMA includes mostly marine species. However, both collections work with freshwater and marine scientists, and both include marine and freshwater strains.

Jerry

PS: Jerry is more humble than I. I was incorrect on some detail, which he has corrected in his two emails.
 
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"The question is whether enough people will pay a significant premium for natural seawater. I could imagine selling it "fresh/raw" with the natural bacteria, or possibly with bacteria killed off somehow (sterilized)."

Randy,
At the heart of this point is the fear in the reef hooby of the unkown effect of bacteria and parasites. I am very similar in belief with Paul, due to a need to sterilize, immune systems are compromised. Develope your business plan to those that do not hold that fear.
Patrick
 
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