Anyone here give up on keeping SPS?

[Floridiot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6438057#post6438057 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 10" Red Devil
For flow I have two modded maxi-jets. Both are outputting more flow then the SEIO 620s.

I also have a 300gph return.

This has only been for a week now though. Prior to this I had a 1100 gph pump hooked up to a SCWD.

I know you're not happy with coloration yet, but how's your SPS growth? If the growth is good, the color normally follows on its own. If the growth is slow, Look at the big three: Lighting, water quality, and flow.

IMO, your lighting is fine, so stop fretting about it. This leaves water quality and flow.

As far as water quality is concerned, does your chaeto grow much? If not try changing out the lighting its getting or switch to a different strain. I use the Lights of America sunlight bulb (Walmart) and have very rapid chaeto growth. I've also tried two different strains of chaeto, one grows and the other doesn't. IMO, this is the best way to remove phosphates (rather than rowaphos).

You could also look at upgrading your skimmer. I'm not familiar with the remora, so it might be fine. I'm just throwing out a suggestion.

Do you have a lot of coralline growth? If not, I'd also lay off the coral feeding for now. I find coralline to be a nuissance, but it is a great indicator of water quality. Once you coralline is taking off, then it is safe to say that the water quality is good, and you may want to consider resuming the coral feeding.

If your water quality and lighting are both good, it is time to revisit your water flow. I know you mentioned that you have a couple of mod'ed maxijets. I have no idea what type of turbulence they produce, but I'm a firm believer that you can't have too much water movement. If you still have the seios laying around, try adding them too for awhile just as long as they don't heat up your water too much.

That's it for my ramblings, and besides, what do I know? Just letting you know what has worked for me.

 

[Stevenx2]

Well, I'm about to give up on keeping SPS. Had 2 die on me and that was a hell of a lot of cash! Just don't know what the hell is going wrong! I'm gonna buy a Kalkreaktor in 2 weeks. If it doesn't help, well screw it then!

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6439711#post6439711 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 10" Red Devil
Damn Sunny,

Life has been good to you!! Beautiful setup! Wish I could see it in person I am in Canton.

Thanks.

Stop by sometime and ill frag some stuff up for you.

 

[10" Red Devil]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6443926#post6443926 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Floridiot
I know you're not happy with coloration yet, but how's your SPS growth? If the growth is good, the color normally follows on its own. If the growth is slow, Look at the big three: Lighting, water quality, and flow.

IMO, your lighting is fine, so stop fretting about it. This leaves water quality and flow.

As far as water quality is concerned, does your chaeto grow much? If not try changing out the lighting its getting or switch to a different strain. I use the Lights of America sunlight bulb (Walmart) and have very rapid chaeto growth. I've also tried two different strains of chaeto, one grows and the other doesn't. IMO, this is the best way to remove phosphates (rather than rowaphos).

You could also look at upgrading your skimmer. I'm not familiar with the remora, so it might be fine. I'm just throwing out a suggestion.

Do you have a lot of coralline growth? If not, I'd also lay off the coral feeding for now. I find coralline to be a nuissance, but it is a great indicator of water quality. Once you coralline is taking off, then it is safe to say that the water quality is good, and you may want to consider resuming the coral feeding.

If your water quality and lighting are both good, it is time to revisit your water flow. I know you mentioned that you have a couple of mod'ed maxijets. I have no idea what type of turbulence they produce, but I'm a firm believer that you can't have too much water movement. If you still have the seios laying around, try adding them too for awhile just as long as they don't heat up your water too much.

That's it for my ramblings, and besides, what do I know? Just letting you know what has worked for me.

Well my the two modded maxijets are actually more powerful then the 2 SEIOs I had in there.

Yeah growth hasnt been spectacular either.

Chaeto grows, but I wouldnt really know what slowly is since I do not have much experience with it. What is slowly? A few inches a month?

Well I raised up my light 24" and man the tank looks so much less illuminated. Kinda scares me. But well see.

 

[Floridiot]

by 10" Red Devil
Well my the two modded maxijets are actually more powerful then the 2 SEIOs I had in there.

Yeah growth hasnt been spectacular either.

Chaeto grows, but I wouldnt really know what slowly is since I do not have much experience with it. What is slowly? A few inches a month?

Well I raised up my light 24" and man the tank looks so much less illuminated. Kinda scares me. But well see.

I've never used chaeto in a tank as small as yours, so I really don't know what fast growth is either. I do know that the LOA bulb helped its growth out tremendously in my tank.

If they'll fit, add the seios in addition to your maxijets for a while. You'd be surprised at how well SPS respond to stronger water movement.

Also, how is your coralline?

 

[10" Red Devil]

Oh I forgot to mention that I have one of those clip on lamps from Home depot with a 27watt screw in 6500k curly-Q bulb. It is about 3-4" from the chaeto.

Corraline growth is great on the rock, and my old 1400gph CPR overflow, but does not grow on the bottom or the back of the glass I suspect because it is painted black (on the outside of the tank).

Well I sent back my SEIOS because I saw that I could have the same amount of flow from the two maxijets for about a 1/8th of the SEIOS price, plus they are a ton more reliable and will work on a wave maker. Another benefit is less heat given off. When I had the SEIOs I actually had one stop working on me.

Anyway they were two 620s and if the maxijets modded are slightly more powerful then the output of the 620s that is over 1200gph flowing around the tank in addition to the 200gph or so from the return pump, in a 20 gallon tank. I couldnt imagine adding anymore powerheads in this small a tank I mean with the mod the maxijets stand out enough on their own.

Kinda like a Mac Truck parked inside a Target.

 

[10" Red Devil]

Floridiot,

Like your sig. Btw, you and Sindjin need to stop confusing me with your avatars!

 

[Floridiot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6445711#post6445711 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 10" Red Devil
Oh I forgot to mention that I have one of those clip on lamps from Home depot with a 27watt screw in 6500k curly-Q bulb. It is about 3-4" from the chaeto.

Corraline growth is great on the rock, and my old 1400gph CPR overflow, but does not grow on the bottom or the back of the glass I suspect because it is painted black (on the outside of the tank).

Well I sent back my SEIOS because I saw that I could have the same amount of flow from the two maxijets for about a 1/8th of the SEIOS price, plus they are a ton more reliable and will work on a wave maker. Another benefit is less heat given off. When I had the SEIOs I actually had one stop working on me.

Anyway they were two 620s and if the maxijets modded are slightly more powerful then the output of the 620s that is over 1200gph flowing around the tank in addition to the 200gph or so from the return pump, in a 20 gallon tank. I couldnt imagine adding anymore powerheads in this small a tank I mean with the mod the maxijets stand out enough on their own.

Kinda like a Mac Truck parked inside a Target.

It sounds as if all is good. The 2 part calcium additions work as well as a reactor IMO, its just that the reactor is much easier and cheaper to run. How old is your system?

 

[clkwrk]

IMO its all about water quality . Also just because salifert kits and others say zero it doesn't mean you have zero .

How often do you clean your glass? IME cheato will not grow in a nutrient poor system . I have a small lump thats been in my sump for 7 months and it has not grown .It is alive but shows no growth . I know this cheato grows because I used to grow huge balls in no time flat in my softie/lps tank.

I was testing 0 with salifert po4 test but my colors said otherwise. So I invested another 200 into this hobby to buy a colorimeter. To my surpise has had .04-.03 po4 . So then I started to look into attacking PO4 . I started to use phosban , skim wetter and look for ways to reduce my po4 input into the tank. It wasn't long after that my nice colored corals started to color up even more and a few 1 year brown outs started to develop color.

My flow is very high and has been . My lights are 250de phx 14ks with a 8hr photoperiod and all my equipment has been the same . The only key factor that changed when my corals colored up even more was the attack on PO4.

Get water quality stable and in check then rest will follow providing your husbandry ,water movement and nutrient export.

 

[clkwrk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6443266#post6443266 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 10" Red Devil
gman,

So basically you can try to run your halide for 4-6 hours because Some people feel that on a reef there is limited exposure to 'strong' light so they reduce their photoperiod to 3-4 hrs to simulate 12am-4pm on the reef.

However you really cannot do this unless you have supplimentation? How much supplimentation are we looking at? What amount of pcs, vhos, t5s would one need for the rest of the approximate the year round 12 hour photoperiod in the equator.

Thanks.

IMO the reduced photoperiod is for low nutrient systems . I noticed most of the people having problems and did reduce their photoperiods had low nutrient problems.

If I skip fish feedings for a few days my corals lighten up which would eventually make me want to reduce my lighting period to darken them up . But instead I feed enough to put enough nutrients in to keep my colors where I want them .

My system is trully nutrient low and if I fail to input po4 or nutrients into my tank my corals would bleach.

Also I have seen beautiful dual 400mh lit tanks running 12-14hrs a day just so they can get good color in their high nutrient tanks.

If people are going to reduce their photoperiods because the reefs only get a certain amount of dirrect or intense lighting a day then they also need to make sure their water params are also inline .JMO

 

[mm949]

there is an acro eating crab that many people do not notice...they are dull grayish/blue, hairy, w/ baby blue eyes......
they can demolish a sizable head of acro over night.....I import hundreds of acro colonies and find 60% harbor these crabs..if not removed quickly one sees massive tissue loss and bleaching
If your light was to strong the colonys would bleach but you still should see polyps....
Acro are a polyped feeder so feeding them is a must...the right light will produce spores in your water column for feeding otherwise you must supply them with something....
If using RO/DI water a kalk doser is a MUST......

 

[lesniewv]

mm949....do you have any pics or scientific names for the acro crabs?

 

[bozu]

I have the same problem as you!! I feel you man!!!

 

[10" Red Devil]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6446507#post6446507 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mm949
there is an acro eating crab that many people do not notice...they are dull grayish/blue, hairy, w/ baby blue eyes......
they can demolish a sizable head of acro over night.....I import hundreds of acro colonies and find 60% harbor these crabs..if not removed quickly one sees massive tissue loss and bleaching
If your light was to strong the colonys would bleach but you still should see polyps....
Acro are a polyped feeder so feeding them is a must...the right light will produce spores in your water column for feeding otherwise you must supply them with something....
If using RO/DI water a kalk doser is a MUST......

Well I would like to consider myself a pretty close observer. I have been looking at the tank for hours on end and have never even seen a hide nore hair of a crab.

 

[10" Red Devil]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6446278#post6446278 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clkwrk
IMO the reduced photoperiod is for low nutrient systems . I noticed most of the people having problems and did reduce their photoperiods had low nutrient problems.

If I skip fish feedings for a few days my corals lighten up which would eventually make me want to reduce my lighting period to darken them up . But instead I feed enough to put enough nutrients in to keep my colors where I want them .

My system is trully nutrient low and if I fail to input po4 or nutrients into my tank my corals would bleach.

Also I have seen beautiful dual 400mh lit tanks running 12-14hrs a day just so they can get good color in their high nutrient tanks.

If people are going to reduce their photoperiods because the reefs only get a certain amount of dirrect or intense lighting a day then they also need to make sure their water params are also inline .JMO

I would say this is a low nutrient system. I have had only one fish in the tank and I feed it once every other day. Now I have just added another fish but that has only been for the past 3 days. I always strained the food of the packing water.

I will admit my AquaC Remora has not been skimming very good at all for quite sometime. I have the cup all the way down and it colllects maybe a third of a cup every 2 weeks. Although I wonder if this is because of the Chaeto in competition.

I also in the past 4 weeks have been dosing Seachems Amino Acids 2ml 2x a week. Also Kents coral-vit 20 drops 2 times a week. I have just started dosing Liquid Life Coral Plankton as of last week. So far only 3 doses. I usually turn of the ciruculation pumps including the return pump and dose about about half a pump mixed with tank water which I use a salifert syringe hooked up to silicon tubing to blow a tiny bit at each coral frag, wait about a few minutes then blow the rest on them.

I also may start feeding the fish more frequently.

I wish I had money for a colimeter, like I said 2005 has not been very good to 10". I do have some Rowaphos that I may just throw in a bag in my sump to run passivly as I have heard this is better then the reactor because when you change out the rowaphos it has been known to have a negative impact on the sps.

It very well could be I am getting some po4 in the tank, but if its lower then what the salifert test kit can read is this not a good level? I mean you do not want p04 to be completely gone from your reef.

For now I am trying the lighting thing for a month and will keep a close eye on raising the light to 22" above the tank is going to make any difference. If not Im not sure if I should keep this way and then maybe try adding the rowaphos. I know its a good idea to only do one thing at a time and see what kind of impact it has.

 

[Hef]

PO4 is very difficult to test for. The phosban thing has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread. Your fears you express over the product are real, but a lot of people with colorful sps tanks run it.
I run 14k Phoenix also. I only run them for about 5 hours per day, they are 6" off the water surface. I dont think changing your lighting habits will make a big difference for you.
Increasing water flow is one of those things that it is hard to convince people that it really makes a difference, I believe it does, not just for the health of corals, but the color of them.
GFO - Phosban, Rowaphos, is a one of those "Real" things. It's very much Worth a Try. I would do it in a Reactor though, the TLF 150 is fairly inexpensive. As you've said, be careful with it, read up on it, there is probably more GFO info out there than on any other topic.
Anyway, you seem open to all of this conversation, keep trying. One day you will look into the tank and notice changes for the better.
Hey and if all else fails.
Start Dosing Vodka

 

[Doug]

I had good luck with SPS and was able to have them grow from small frags into large colonies. They grew faster then I could trim them and ended up stinging each other.

The main reason that I moved away from SPS was because I missed the flowing movements from soft corals. The SPS tank looked nice at it's peak but there was just no movement and I really missed that since I started the hobby with softies and LPS.

 

[clkwrk]

10"

I tested 0 with salifert and had an acutal reading of .04 with my coloimeter. IMO this is enough to 1. Stunt growth and 2. affect color.

IMO your remora isn't removing enuff from the water. I have 2 of them and would never use one on a SPS tank but thats just me .

Also IMO if you trully had a nutrient poor system then I think you would be saying how come all my corals are lightening up or bleaching .

BTW I use kent salt and it always mixes up with .04 of PO4. I am not the only one that can confirm that .

 

[10" Red Devil]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6447499#post6447499 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clkwrk
10"

I tested 0 with salifert and had an acutal reading of .04 with my coloimeter. IMO this is enough to 1. Stunt growth and 2. affect color.

IMO your remora isn't removing enuff from the water. I have 2 of them and would never use one on a SPS tank but thats just me .

Also IMO if you trully had a nutrient poor system then I think you would be saying how come all my corals are lightening up or bleaching .

BTW I use kent salt and it always mixes up with .04 of PO4. I am not the only one that can confirm that .

Actually I am seeing bleaching and lightening, no browning whatsoever.

I do run BB and do 10-15% water changes pretty much weekly, being careful to make sure the water change water is similar to tank params. Im thinking the chaeto has been cleaning the water a little better then I thought.

Im not sure why my Remora has basically stopped producing. I have tried cleaning the spray injector and that seems to do nothing. I also clean out the cup. I guess I am going to actually take out the tower and clean it out (gawd what a pain). I was reading the new pdf manual on the site and they say I should make cleaning of the skimmer a daily priority! Who has time for this kind of thing. I will admit I try damn hard to keep my hands out of the tank to the point where if I have to get in there I use those klunky non-presice coralife reactor style arm and hand glove. But sometimes I just have some emergency thing that requires me to have to stick my hands in the water.

So you dont think a Remora is any good even though it is built for a 75 gallon tank and I have it on a 20 gallon long? I have heard nothing but good things about it, prior to my purchase of it. I mean damn it was expensive enough. I bought it used and it was close to $150.

Also not saying I dont believe you about the po4 test thing. So then what do you advice I do?

I gotta say at the moment I have no money for any equipment whatsoever at this point I am soooo spent. Unless someone wants to donate their stuff lol!

I use Reefcrystals salt and my own R/O water which always comes out with a TDS of 2. I have heard Reefcrystals and Kent are the same.

Again thanks for all your input.

 

[10" Red Devil]

You know its funny I have probably gotten so much conflicting advice in this thread it is no wonder I am wanting to give up.

Not to knock anyone, but its kinda funny if you look at it.