Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[JPMagyar]

This is a repost from my tank thread, but I thought it would be appropriate to share here as well.



5 days under Radium light and the first signs of zooxanthellea improvement are already evident at the same time that PAR levels increased from 200 to 300 at this location. It's not about quantity of light it's about quality. I wish I had the money to do honest scientific research but clearly something about the light from a SMT panel was killing zooxanthellea or the least not sustaining the red zoox in this coral but not everywhere on the coral. Without question the coral was still growing but not with as many zoox.

The first picture is from today. The second picture was from March 14th.

 

[meshwheel]

Powerboat Jim,
How is it going with the metal halide on your tank now? Are you seeing a difference at all? Just curious as to how it's going?
Thanks!

 

[power boat jim]

Powerboat Jim,
How is it going with the metal halide on your tank now? Are you seeing a difference at all? Just curious as to how it's going?
Thanks!

Its been 3 1/2 weeks and here is the summary. There has been no miracle explosion in growth or color. The only coral that has gained some color is one brown millie . It is picking up some green and blue. I must say having a dominant led source supplemented by a single 400 watt radium in the center of the tank makes for some very nice evening effects. The MH also gets rid of some shadowing. I will leave the MH up for a while yet and see if anything else happens for the better. I may leave it up just because the tank looks really good with the mixture of the two light sources.

I thought the MH would color up my blue and green dragons but no such luck. Im wondering if maybe changing salt mixes might help that.

Thanks for asking Mesh.

 

[meshwheel]

Jim,
Thank you for taking the time to test this out and give us some data on what you have found. Seems to me there are "Many" variables to corals coloring up.
It also seems to me that there are many more variables with led's then there are halides. I have seen tanks running led's that have every bit as good colors as tanks ran with halides.
I am sticking with my leds and love them! Less heat, less electricity, more flexibility and cheaper to run...............................

 

[joekidwell]

Three weeks growth with the Reefbreeder Photon 32.

The first pic is when I got my light and the second is today. I think my Stylo is happy.

Sorry for the cell phone pics.

 

[Fredfish]

Jim,
Thank you for taking the time to test this out and give us some data on what you have found. ...

+1 I think a lot of negative stuff gets attributed to LEDs because the are the new kid on the block.

 

[Maximus]

Just switched back to 400 watt Radiums last month and have noticed my Oregon tort intensifying in color. I'm sticking with Radiums from now on.

 

[AcroporAddict]

Its been 3 1/2 weeks and here is the summary. There has been no miracle explosion in growth or color. The only coral that has gained some color is one brown millie . It is picking up some green and blue. I must say having a dominant led source supplemented by a single 400 watt radium in the center of the tank makes for some very nice evening effects. The MH also gets rid of some shadowing. I will leave the MH up for a while yet and see if anything else happens for the better. I may leave it up just because the tank looks really good with the mixture of the two light sources.

I thought the MH would color up my blue and green dragons but no such luck. Im wondering if maybe changing salt mixes might help that.

Thanks for asking Mesh.

Give it more time Jim. 3.5 weeks is not a long time. I did not experience any explosions in growth or color change immediately. It took several months for many of my SPS colors to intensify. The faster an SPS grows, the sooner I have to get into the tank to trim or pull the colony as it starts to shade neighbors, etc.

Also, I never really cared about growth, per se. I actually prefer slower growing SPS. It was lack of color that got me back to halides.

 

[AcroporAddict]

Three weeks growth with the Reefbreeder Photon 32.

The first pic is when I got my light and the second is today. I think my Stylo is happy.

Sorry for the cell phone pics.

I never had issues with colors on Stylos, Pocis or Seratioporas using LEDs. It was color in acroporas and milleporas that suffered, primarily, IME.

 

[JPMagyar]

Three weeks growth with the Reefbreeder Photon 32.

The first pic is when I got my light and the second is today. I think my Stylo is happy.

People have been successfully keeping Stylos since the 1970s. They are not challenging and can live in almost zero light environments. It has been my experience that many if not most of the more challenging SPS placed under LEDs lose color in the body or the tips and few get the same level of deep colored zooxanthellea saturation that is achievable under T5 or metal halide. Look at the corals being grown by Vivid Aquarium I show below. Some people will find them perfectly fine, but to me they are pale, unhealthy, and a prime example of the damage caused by LED lighting.

Obviously there are exceptions and usually they come from tanks that have literally hundreds of LEDs in a DIY fixture, but in general LED grown corals are paler then their T5 and metal halide grown relatives. The unknown variables with LED lighting are simply too many at this point in time. How many LEDs? What spread between LEDs? What optics if any? What power level? What choice of spectrums? How high? The decisions a reefer needs to make when utilizing LEDs can be overwhelming.

To me the opposite of the cliche I hear on RC is true. Right now too many newbies are looking at everything other than their lighting before they are willing to admit that LED light is simply not as good as T5 or metal halide when it comes to "set it and forget it" coral coloration, and no amount of iron supplement or amino acids will help.



Coral Frags Grown Under LED

 

[power boat jim]

Jim,
Thank you for taking the time to test this out and give us some data on what you have found. Seems to me there are "Many" variables to corals coloring up.
It also seems to me that there are many more variables with led's then there are halides. I have seen tanks running led's that have every bit as good colors as tanks ran with halides.
I am sticking with my leds and love them! Less heat, less electricity, more flexibility and cheaper to run...............................

I think there are many variables that matter more then I know at least, that can make a difference. The person I got my green and blue dragons from runs an all led tank. They look super and grow well in his tank. Mine not so much. Now since they have yet to take off even under the MH section of the tank, I have to start looking at other variables as to why.

I will leave things as they are for now since, as AcroporAddict said, 3-4 weeks is not that much time.

 

[FastUno]

So far so good with my 2x 120W Chinese LED fixtures. I have not added the T5's yet & I think I will add 2x T5's & point them at the top/back row of SPS's to eliminate shadowing.


Few days after LED switch:

Almost 6 weeks later:

 

[trueperc]

For me this sums up current LEDs JPMagyar "The unknown variables with LED lighting are simply too many at this point in time. How many LEDs? What spread between LEDs? What optics if any? What power level? What choice of spectrums? How high? The decisions a reefer needs to make when utilizing LEDs can be overwhelming."

Anyone see this about red LED :

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/red-light-negatively-affects-health-of-stony-coral

Or read the open letter to led industry thread:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2315500

Both show for me that there is still so many unknowns. Like is the open letter one they seem to be finding that we have two much whites.

With T5 and metal it is just simple to use.

 

[jda]

Man! If only we could get back the super experienced hobbyists that were driven away from this (and many other) message boards with scorn and ridicule who have said this from the beginning. Maybe their experience and talents will make their way back.

 

[arinrb]

This is the vacumm tube amp debate.

 

[bdsage]

fastuno: looks like you've had an explosion in growth in 6 weeks...i to am switching from mh to reefbreeder value fixture (its in shipping) so we'll see what happens...

 

[d2mini]

So far so good with my 2x 120W Chinese LED fixtures. I have not added the T5's yet & I think I will add 2x T5's & point them at the top/back row of SPS's to eliminate shadowing.

Nice progress.
LPS love LED.
I think that's already been stated here.
And i think my frogspawn agrees.
SPS on the other hand"¦

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

This is what I was told when my Illumina was recieved:

Please keep in mind that I have meetings every Monday morning. I am multitasking as I write this.

Sorry if you received any failure notices from my email. It was down most of the weekend.

I'm looking into this issue with the light having arrived with our holding company Monday. We were not notified until late on Wednesday or Thursday that it had arrived! So we picked it up Thursday, and I had a look on Friday.

The good news is that it arrived in fine condition - your packing job was great. Our shipper/receiver was jealous of the materials at your disposal. Also, you were correct - something was not quite right with the light physically.
The unfortunate news is that the problem is due to severe water damage. The cable from the light has really, really bad corrosion from salt water contact, and the splitter itself is even worse. I suspect that water was dripping down the cord and pooling in the splitter. This is causing a voltage drop and issues with the channels being initialized properly.

This is something that can be repaired, but it would not be covered under warranty. I suspect the cost of labour and parts would be $200 or so. Think about it, and let me know. I should be able to give you a call in the afternoon, and I can send photos of what I am talking about as well.


Bear in mind that this fixture is only 20 months old and has been treated with care. It hung 3" above the water surface (per the manufacturer's instructions) with the splitter under the tank with a drip loop so no dripping took place. The unit simply was not sealed well enough to prevent corrosion.
For any Illumina owners out there I have two words for you: SEAL IT
I have yet to hear from them, but when I do they are going to get an earful.

 

[nynick]

I am confused, how is salt water damage on a cord the manufacturers fault?

Maybe there is something I am not understanding here. How do you even get salt water to drip down a light cord? I had tanks for 30++ years and this has never happened to me. None of the parts should be in contact with water.

 

[Fredfish]

...Anyone see this about red LED :

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/red-light-negatively-affects-health-of-stony-coral

Or read the open letter to led industry thread:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2315500

Both show for me that there is still so many unknowns. Like is the open letter one they seem to be finding that we have two much whites.

With T5 and metal it is just simple to use.

The first link tells us something about the way red light may have a role in the regulation of some processes in a coral. It says nothing about red light and aquarium lighting because it does not test the hypothesis on a wide range of corals using aquarium lighting.

You can draw just about any conclusion you care to from the wide range of posts in the 'Open Letter' thread. The most recent set of pics are from a German shop that uses LEDs that are all or mostly blue and white LEDs. The tanks look pretty damned good to me.

Me personally, the only conclusion I take from that thread is that some people have success with LEDs and some don't and we have no idea why.