Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[Bryopsis]

My LEDs and MH ran with almost identical spectrums (to my eye). I like a crisp white look, not the blue windex look. Under this type of lighting, which was fairly consistent, I had various SPS that colored up very well under MH and were either brown, or turned green under LED. Both were long term results.
One problem with the above setup, is that it appears he is using two completely different spectrums which will alter both growth and color.

Thanks for the tidbit, wish I had the funds to do this myself.. Sounds like I'm on the other side of the fence though, I enjoy the bluer tanks vs the crisp white :lolspin:
I guess if the white period is in the middle of the day that's better for growth for some but otherwise ya...

It would be curious to setup a few tanks with different spectrums and then start identifying which corals enjoy which spectrum. I mean the spectrum has to change in nature with the different depths...

 

[Aqualund]

Great setup and glad people like you are out there getting it done. But yeah the most important point to be made about the validity of the data is in fact that both lights do differ so much in the color. Maybe since you cant adjust the leds into a realm closer to the halide...you could pick up a 20k bulb on the cheap for comparison?

With sps I always notice better (than any full spectrum led ive tried) pigmentation in the smooth acroporas and even some milleporas under the ushio 6500k...so its not safe to say that it's the led driving the pigmentation, rather the presence of certain spectrum of light for each coral.

 

[jestronix]

Great setup and glad people like you are out there getting it done. But yeah the most important point to be made about the validity of the data is in fact that both lights do differ so much in the color. Maybe since you cant adjust the leds into a realm closer to the halide...you could pick up a 20k bulb on the cheap for comparison?

With sps I always notice better (than any full spectrum led ive tried) pigmentation in the smooth acroporas and even some milleporas under the ushio 6500k...so its not safe to say that it's the led driving the pigmentation, rather the presence of certain spectrum of light for each coral.

Yeh your right, I have a 20k bulb in my main tank of same age , I'll swap these over to get a closer test. But was looking at a comparison for frag growth, thus the 14k bulb. Am I going for looks, growth or combination? I'm actually looking to pop a small frag tank outside for a natural sunlight test plumbed into the main sump to keep params close , with some uv shield. Ushio 6500k would be almost the same I guess.

 

[jestronix]

Oops double post

 

[jestronix]

Ok pretty sure I've got them both at 14k by eye -

 

[Big E]

Ok pretty sure I've got them both at 14k by eye -

No offense, but no hard core Sps reefer would waste their time with a halide setup like that. It's junk from the bulbs available to the unit itself.

400w & 250w watt bulbs are where an SPS reefer has a good selection of bulbs to choose from and also good reflectors to match with them.

The only difference that most LED units have with each other is in the software and the design of how the diodes are mounted. All LED units are limited mostly by the same diodes manufactured by a few companies.

Your test should be with at least a 250w setup with quality bulbs & reflector that have a proven track record. I doubt you could find anyone using that fixture you're testing now or in the past over a successful SPS tank.

I see a lot of talk about the 250w Radium and it's a good bulb, but the gold standard has always been the 400w Radium overdriven with VHO actinics. There also were/are a of other bulb combos that work great with halides, but just wanted to point that out.

Some of this info is old when I first started this thread, but most of the issues with LEDs in coloring Acropora corals still persist. There's a lot of good info and links in the thread.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2198810

 

[jestronix]

Hi ed , I get ur angle and really if I had the money I'd go radium vs high end led, this I guess is an on the side budget comparison. I know a 400w radium setup would kick *** and give me what I'm after, as far as growth and colour, but I guess this could be seen as a Hyundai vs Kia review and only between these models rather than a definitive led is better than halide vice versa.

Ed whats your thoughts on the ushio and radium 150w globes, I've heard the radiums are different than the higher wattage brothers, but how different ? I'm willing to stretch the budget a bit to get a ushio or radium as a third comparison if they are worth it. Are they cheap bulbs re branded etc

 

[Big E]

Honestly there's bit of a disconnect because we're from different parts of the world. We really don't have much exposure to the fixture you have.

Most here would use 175w SE Halide bulbs with a reflector that is larger with diamond type facets and a dome shape. It would be larger and less compact. I believe Ushio makes a few nice 175w bulbs in the 15 & 20k range.

You might want to contact them and ask if they have a 150w version that would fit your fixture and perform the same.

One thing also, is you can't really use your eyes to kinda make them look the same. Our eyes don't see or work the same as how corals take in light. It's one of the conundrums that anyone faces when trying to duplicate the same look with lighting.

 

[Big E]

Just a quick thought on the Lani comparison........that would be more of a comparison of T5's directly., whch is what they duplicate.

The Lani setup fixes the problems inherent with coverage, hot spots, and consistentcy, so it comes down to comparing whether they can duplicate a T5 bulb with one of their strps or combo of strips compared to a combo of T5s.

Over here the same test could probably be done comparing a BuildmyLED setup with T5.

 

[jestronix]

Hi Ed,

Yeh we have no 175w offerings here that I've seen , but ushio and radium do make 150w, I'd be interested in finding out about people's experience with these. Yep lani are looking to emulate T5, their pro series look better for rendition. Insanely expensive though, you could run for years with T5 before u spent equal to those units in bulbs, then again a nice ATI unit will set u back too.

 

[markalot]

Just a quick thought on the Lani comparison........that would be more of a comparison of T5's directly., whch is what they duplicate.

The Lani setup fixes the problems inherent with coverage, hot spots, and consistentcy, so it comes down to comparing whether they can duplicate a T5 bulb with one of their strps or combo of strips compared to a combo of T5s.

Over here the same test could probably be done comparing a BuildmyLED setup with T5.

Big E, just found your thread where you cover a lot of the spectrum issues I was talking about earlier. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2198810 and you do it much better than I did.

Perhaps I should continue my Maxspect + BML pondering over there. I'm on the first page where people are wondering if the new Razor has the right spectrum to match MH.

 

[sirreal63]

I have used the 150 watt Radium quite a bit, as well as the Ushio 10k. The 150 watt Radium is quite a bit more white than the 250 watt, but for me that is good because I like a whiter appearance. The 150 has been redesigned to run less wattage, which is good for those with electronic ballasts. I believe it now runs 146 watts nominal as opposed the 160 watt nominal it used to run. Paired up with VHO SuperActintics it is a great combination.

I have not run the Ushio 14k, only the 10k which is a high par 150, over your frag tank you may cook the corals unless you acclimate properly. I had a lot of bleaching under the 10k's and my 17" tall tank. Once they become acclimated it is a great bulb for growth.

I ran both bulbs under M81's and have also used 175 watt electronic which does slightly over drive the bulbs.

 

[jestronix]

I have used the 150 watt Radium quite a bit, as well as the Ushio 10k. The 150 watt Radium is quite a bit more white than the 250 watt, but for me that is good because I like a whiter appearance. The 150 has been redesigned to run less wattage, which is good for those with electronic ballasts. I believe it now runs 146 watts nominal as opposed the 160 watt nominal it used to run. Paired up with VHO SuperActintics it is a great combination.

I have not run the Ushio 14k, only the 10k which is a high par 150, over your frag tank you may cook the corals unless you acclimate properly. I had a lot of bleaching under the 10k's and my 17" tall tank. Once they become acclimated it is a great bulb for growth.

I ran both bulbs under M81's and have also used 175 watt electronic which does slightly over drive the bulbs.

Thanks jack, Im eyeing off the iwasaki 50k which is meant to be more like a 14k, the 10k ushio also seems tempting considering the growth and par ratings. long as my budget cough i mean the other half allows me.

 

[Big E]

Big E, just found your thread where you cover a lot of the spectrum issues I was talking about earlier. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2198810 and you do it much better than I did.

Perhaps I should continue my Maxspect + BML pondering over there. I'm on the first page where people are wondering if the new Razor has the right spectrum to match MH.

Hi Mark,

If you like the looks and color you're getting I don't see why not. Give it a good 4-6 months. No question adding the BML is going to give you fuller coverage to what you have with just the Maxspects.

More people have used the T5s but a big part of that is cost and BML seems to be suffering from growing pains, so not a lot of people are using them right now.

 

[sirreal63]

Thanks jack, Im eyeing off the iwasaki 50k which is meant to be more like a 14k, the 10k ushio also seems tempting considering the growth and par ratings. long as my budget cough i mean the other half allows me.

This will show the slight par difference between the Radium and the Ushio. Notice the very low 420nm with the Radium yet high peak in 420nm with the 10k.

 

[markalot]

Hi Mark,

If you like the looks and color you're getting I don't see why not. Give it a good 4-6 months. No question adding the BML is going to give you fuller coverage to what you have with just the Maxspects.

More people have used the T5s but a big part of that is cost and BML seems to be suffering from growing pains, so not a lot of people are using them right now.

Hi Ed,

yea, I've had to deal with over a month to get an order through, but it's worth it. I have an embarrassing number of strips from them, some dating back to the first months they were in operation.

 

[Bryopsis]

This will show the slight par difference between the Radium and the Ushio. Notice the very low 420nm with the Radium yet high peak in 420nm with the 10k.

Wow... That's quite a difference!

 

[muttley101]

Man, it seems this subscription is more and more going to a LED vs MH topic. I liked this topic in the beginning as it was a place for people to gather information from other LED owners making/or about to make the switch and what their findings were. For example, I noticed that my corals seem to be bald on one side where when I switched to MH, coralites started to form where they did not in the past with my led fixture. Now, I see people chime in with "I made the switch to LED's and never looking back". I ask myself what pulled you into this forum topic?

I am a Radion owner and I have growth and coloration from all my corals especially chalices from this fixture. I have used MH in the past and enjoyed the growth. Truth be told I went to Vivid Aquarium in southern California during vacation with my family and they had their main display half lit with MH and the other with Radions tuned to look the same. I asked the guy which side was which and he told me take a guess and laughed. To me the MH side just looked better. Numbers, spectral output, etc. is great, but for me I like the hard evidence of looking at one's tank.

Not to derail the science project, but when I saw the shop light vs the Chinese brick I was like here we go... Just saying...

And by the way using vinegar to keep your Po4 and No3 at zero is going to starve your corals white... been down that road...

 

[Fredfish]

Not to derail the science project, but when I saw the shop light vs the Chinese brick I was like here we go... Just saying...

One mans Chinese brick is another mans reef lighting... Just saying...

jestronix. I think some sort of MH to, Chinese fixture is very useful as there are a lot of people out there buying these units.

I think you should actually start your own thread so that neither this thread or your comparison get derailed.

 

[muttley101]

One mans Chinese brick is another mans reef lighting... Just saying...

jestronix. I think some sort of MH to, Chinese fixture is very useful as there are a lot of people out there buying these units.

I think you should actually start your own thread so that neither this thread or your comparison get derailed.

I apologize, that was wrong of me ... I mean Chinese LED fixture... and for those with Shop lights, I mean MH units.