Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

biecacka said:
Jim, i think we could get by with 6 hours or so. that is about the peak amount of hours the reefs get. anything more than that is usually for our viewing pleasure only. which is funny to say, because that is the main reason I would want LEDs. I want to increase my viewing time. I currently run my lights about 7 hours a day and want to increase it. But due to heat and the size of my system in my apartment, its not as easy as I would like.


corey
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That seems to be the short consensus. It would be easy for me to place a MH over the tank. The way the LEDs cover I think the dual system would be interesting. I can use the heat during the winter too. Those big MH lights look awful over the tank though. I dont see there being a down side during the winter.
 
That's too funny. I am thinking of adding some LED strip lights to my MH. T5 won't fit in my floating canopy so I might add a few small strips to lengthen my lighting period, solely for my benefit tho

Corey
 
After reading and participating in this thead, or at least.trying to I have to say that the biggest improvement with LEDS would likely be to turn them around and bounce them off a multi faceted reflector for dispersion. I might enjoy a unique position with my rather smallish tank and reefbreeders Photon24. There is literally only 3in. Of any side or end which is not covered by 120 degree dispersion LEDS. There is absolutely no shadowing. The problem probably way more so than "spectrum" is covering larger tanks with the same watts/gal. Intensity as one can with fewer MH fixtures. Call it reflection, restrike or whatever all light regardless of frequency or spread spectrum behaves the same way. The very reason our planet and yes oceans look as it does is to to the endless random reflection of light. MH is a single point ligjt source. So is LED aquarium lighting. My entite home is lighted with LEDS which are indistinguishable from incandescant lighting. THAT folks will be the future of aquarium lighting as well. Multiple emitters housed in a single diffuser package not unlike a standard screw in
ncandescant bulb.
 
LEDS, T5, MH and PC lighting all grow coral. Only MH and LEDS provide "shimmer" I suspect the shimmer addicts will 'fess up on that attraction. The real dis service LED manufacturers are doing themselves and their customers are providing too much choice....too much to play with spectrum wise. Vatiable power levels to mimic the sun? Terrific! 96 spectrum flavors? Nah.....the best oart about MH and fliurescent is the "use as is" mentality. People have always rallied around and found ways to adapt to far fewer ligjting choices before LEDS. Most reefers defend their true and tried. MH/T5 systems for one reason they work. I use my 55 emitter LED system in a 50/50 configuration (sounds familiar flourescent guys?). It worked for 15 years for me, still does. Light density and bounce....ditto.
 
Mikefromaz said:
After reading and participating in this thead, or at least.trying to I have to say that the biggest improvement with LEDS would likely be to turn them around and bounce them off a multi faceted reflector for dispersion. I might enjoy a unique position with my rather smallish tank and reefbreeders Photon24. There is literally only 3in. Of any side or end which is not covered by 120 degree dispersion LEDS. There is absolutely no shadowing. The problem probably way more so than "spectrum" is covering larger tanks with the same watts/gal. Intensity as one can with fewer MH fixtures. Call it reflection, restrike or whatever all light regardless of frequency or spread spectrum behaves the same way. The very reason our planet and yes oceans look as it does is to to the endless random reflection of light. MH is a single point ligjt source. So is LED aquarium lighting. My entite home is lighted with LEDS which are indistinguishable from incandescant lighting. THAT folks will be the future of aquarium lighting as well. Multiple emitters housed in a single diffuser package not unlike a standard screw in
ncandescant bulb.
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I mostly agree with this except that with the photon, even though it is as big as your tank, not all the diodes reflect equally due to their position on the fixture, so at any point in the tank you might have a completely different spectrum. <--- assumption of course.

I'm still thinking LED strip lights, like BML, might be one of the primary future routes for LED lighting. I too have bought too many custom strips (don't tell wife!). Currently using what I call an 18K strip over the front of my tank to help give shimmer and front lighting to my T5's.

For MH replacement I have to think LED shaped like a bulb, much like replacements for household incandescent, might be one future route. I'm not sure what direction super bright LED is going but halide was originally for these same kinds of applications so development may follow the same path.

You can save a LOT of money by using high quality reflectors to double / triple the amount of usable light. Reflectors are the future. :)
 
power boat jim said:
All this discussion has brought up a question for me. If MH provides the fuel for color, how many hours a day would one need to run a Halide light with a full led system to just give the corals a punch to polish the colors.?
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During the hot months of the summer I only ran my MH 4 hours a day with my BML leds at 10 to 11 hrs. I did not see a slow down in growth. Since the colder temps I raised my MH back up to 8 hours a day to keep the temperature up. Like someone else said LED manufactures give too many choices, one thing I like about my BML's is I have them adjusted at 85% so when they come on they burn like that for 10 hours a day not 2 hours at 10% and 4 hours at 85%. Think about it if we ran our MH that way you would only end up with 2 hours of true MH power. If ecotech is watching on your setup menu press 1 for 12" tank depth, 2 for 16" and so on. Stop giving owners a choice on adjusting there lights to what looks good to their eyes. Can you imagine if we decided to add a gallon of calcium, pint of mag. trace elements and never tested for anything? Well that's what is happening with LEDs, look at the different post on RC. All you see here is I run my at 50% blue, 10% white, no I run mine at 60%, and I wonder 60% of what? With out expensive meters you are guessing and your corals become your test dummies.
On a side note this has become a great post and thread!
 
alton said:
During the hot months of the summer I only ran my MH 4 hours a day with my BML leds at 10 to 11 hrs. I did not see a slow down in growth. Since the colder temps I raised my MH back up to 8 hours a day to keep the temperature up. Like someone else said LED manufactures give too many choices, one thing I like about my BML's is I have them adjusted at 85% so when they come on they burn like that for 10 hours a day not 2 hours at 10% and 4 hours at 85%. Think about it if we ran our MH that way you would only end up with 2 hours of true MH power. If ecotech is watching on your setup menu press 1 for 12" tank depth, 2 for 16" and so on. Stop giving owners a choice on adjusting there lights to what looks good to their eyes. Can you imagine if we decided to add a gallon of calcium, pint of mag. trace elements and never tested for anything? Well that's what is happening with LEDs, look at the different post on RC. All you see here is I run my at 50% blue, 10% white, no I run mine at 60%, and I wonder 60% of what? With out expensive meters you are guessing and your corals become your test dummies.
On a side note this has become a great post and thread!
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I could not agree more! I am fine with several WELL defined and tested presets for tastes. People have been tuning to tastes with MH/T5 forever. Different kelvin bulbs, etc. It is a matter of these manufacturers doing the due diligence to set these presets and reefers being able to select their preference instead of going "Here are about 50 or so LEDs. Have fun!"

Don
 
mhucasey said:
If the white, blue, and 403nm LEDs gave truly awesome coloration, then why did you replace them with Radions? Would you be opposed to showing a picture of your tank under such a setup to bolster your argument? I think T5s work better than LEDs, I've had all three technologies and beyond all the data, its my opinion. Here are pictures of my tank to show that I have a reason to believe that:
picture.php


picture.php


picture.php


Many here who defend LED talk about how they started with X unit, but now are using Y unit, many times in less than 2 years. They say that the new Y unit has figured it all out! In my mind they already have replaced one failed LED system and have completely invalidated any claim to be saving money. Replacing bulbs is always cheaper than replacing fixtures...
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dang that looks good! what kind of wrasse is that?
 
Just a little more "Reef Porn" if I can borrow that phrase. These are pics from today . . . gotta love them Radium bulbs!







IMG_1585_zpsfcdbacf1.jpg






IMG_1584_zpsb17800f1.jpg





IMG_1579_zps0d99ba9b.jpg





Pink_zps214954ae.jpg
 
I'm making the dump.
I have a 48x24x21 open top with 2 Hydras. The corners seem too dim. Too much shadowing. The white appears yellowish. I do like the blues at night. The coral growth is weak. I was more impressed with my old 1999 AhSupply compact fluorescent lighting system than the hydras.

So... I pulled the trigger. I just ordered a Giesemann Spectra 48" 2x250 14k & T5 54wx4 fixture. Merry Christmas to me!
 
power boat jim said:
Joe your photo and reef skilz are outstanding. When I grow up I hope I can have corals like that!!!
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overexposed said:
+1!
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Thanks guys! Jim, if you haven't already you should read the story from last week that I posted on my thread:

A Day in the Life of an Addicted Aquarist

It's actually funny once you're able to look back on it . . .

Anyways, I just want to add for anyone following along on this thread that lighting makes a difference, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. Perseverance is probably more important than anything else. You need to solve each problem one step at a time and lighting can not fix any problems. You need good lighting to succeed, but there are so many other parameters that have to be perfect and really I think that is where the hard work lies. BUT, that's why I'm such a jerk about LEDs and why I push so hard in favor of T5 or MH. Having a successful reef requires so much work, why make it harder than you need by experimenting with a light source that is so complex. 250 or 400 watt Radiums come in one form and produce one type of light. You can't change their intensity or color. You can't make them dim for sunrise and sunset, but you sure as heck can be certain that they grow excellent coral and make them really colorful. Using metal halides leaves you free to focus on all those other issues that are so hard to pin down: nitrate, phosphate, algae control, pests, salinity stability, alkalinity stability, temperature stability, etc. etc. There's just so much work to do in keeping a successful reef, I hate to see folks spend so much time trying to make their lighting "just right" when that is probably the easiest part of the equation and for sure the only one that has multiple "set it and forget it" solutions.
 
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