Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[mhucasey]

I'm not sure exactly what your point is here? If only one person on the planet has produced an amazing tank grown by LEDs then it proves LEDs work. I think there's also a couple of reasons for this, the first is cost; there's no doubt that MH is the cheap option for lighting reef systems, the initial setup of using good quality LEDs can be very expensive, so you'd assume that more tanks are lit with MH for this reason.
Secondly although LED technology has been around for about 10 years, I'd say that it's only in the last 3 years or so that we've seen a real growth in LED technology capable of growing SPS at a decent rate.
I was using AI sols 5 years ago on a 55 and unless I put 8 of them over the tank I wasn't going to get sufficient lighting for Acropora.
Now on a 150 I had 3 AI Hydra52s and was getting good Acropora growth directly under the lights, but the poor spread of the lights meant I needed more fixtures.
So the reason you've only seen a handful of amazing LED grown tanks is probably because 1. The initial cost means less people take this option, especially on larger tanks, 2. It takes time to grow out an amazing reef tank and the better LED units have only really been out 3 or 4 years, and 3. You have to have your settings correctly dialed in with LEDs, as we've seen from this thread many people just give up and go crawling back to MH, then come on here stating LEDs don't work instead of persevering and researching the right settings.

LEDs are expensive, so getting the proper amount for coverage costs more money than most reefers consider reasonable. I'll buy that. I've been hearing that LEDs haven't been out long enough for reef tanks to develop under them for 3 years now. It doesn't take that long to grow a reef tank, so I don't buy that.

Why should reef keepers be forced to "perservere" tweaking spectrum and researching settings on a light fixture that costs more than existing technologies? If it was cheaper that would make sense, but for most technology when you pay more you should get ease of use in that cost.

 

[mhucasey]

Those Lani tanks I posted are what I would call "Amazing". They also have $6000- $13,500 dollars worth of panels over those tanks!(each panel is 1500 bucks).

 

[oreo57]

Something different would be cheaper but wouldn't be the same thing.

your right.. it would be cheaper..
CREE aren't even "the best" chips to begin with (arguable of course)

https://youtu.be/V7XLgLiA0PM?list=PLBaMLrfToJyybUT18OE3fMomFb9XU0ffC

 

[seamonster124]

I'm starting to think I need to get the halides out of the shed......I guess Phoenix 14k's are out of business now?

 

[karimwassef]

I don't know what the dream multichips are. I wasn't talking about them.

There are many vendors of multichip LEDs, but I'm amazed that you can judge my DIY as not impressive with zero detail

That's an amazing power of judgement you possess! LOL

We all project by filling in the gaps in what we read with what we think or know, but maybe just take a moment to find out more?

 

[jminick2]

I'm starting to think I need to get the halides out of the shed......I guess Phoenix 14k's are out of business now?

no, back in business.

 

[mhucasey]

I don't know what the dream multichips are. I wasn't talking about them.

There are many vendors of multichip LEDs, but I'm amazed that you can judge my DIY as not impressive with zero detail

That's an amazing power of judgement you possess! LOL

We all project by filling in the gaps in what we read with what we think or know, but maybe just take a moment to find out more?

There is no need to get your feathers ruffled, I wasn't commenting on your build or its quality. It looks very impressive, uses Cree LEDs:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2226279
How is it performing? I didn't see a tank thread but it looks like you love to DIY.

FYI the "Dream Chip" was a project here on the Reef Central DIY forums where a group of LED enthusiasts got together to design and develop a reef tank Multi-Chip. They did that because there weren't any multi chips out there that fit the requirements for a reef.

It started on this monster thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2128756&highlight=dream+multichip
and the chip from it was then used in other builds. Take a look for yourself. Many of the reefers who designed the chip admitted something just didn't work but frankly the pictures of the tanks in the thread will show you that.

 

[ReefCowboy]

Lani LED tanks:

i see similar design on the led fixtures from this post and this incredible store in Germany(link youtube). Would lani's set ups follow similar led placement and coverage?
This looks very impressive

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GC0aXnKQY-E

BTW, is there a more impressive variety of corals, and on point coral colors than this store? It is truly a 10/10 in my opinion

 

[mhucasey]

i see similar design on the led fixtures from this post and this incredible store in Germany(link youtube). Would lani's set ups follow similar led placement and coverage?
This looks very impressive

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GC0aXnKQY-E

BTW, is there a more impressive variety of corals, and on point coral colors than this store? It is truly a 10/10 in my opinion

That is the Triton store, the second pic in the list is the tank in the beginning of that video. The same guys who commercialized Triton produce the Lani LED. It was intended to be a T5 replacement, so there isn't the shimmer, but there is the coverage. I agree on that store, one of the best I've ever seen, no matter what kind of lighting - and that show tank is very impressive.

One of the keys about the success of their approach is that they create diffuse light by using so many emitters. I've read many threads of users with these panels and they seem to be similar to T5s in that corals don't need slow acclimation under them(no burned corals).

 

[seamonster124]

Have you ever changed anybody's mind on here? I doubt it. People are just defending their own preference, regardless of evidence.

You can post a pic of God's reef tank on here and people will disagree with his lighting if it does not agree with their prefered product. The sun is an inefficient method of lighting a reef if you ask me.

 

[C.Eymann]

I consider myself a halide loyalist but one that sold me on LED's was Bon's lagoon,I still use halides but tanks such as his show that creating something that is TOTM worthy can be done with LED.

 

[mhucasey]

Have you ever changed anybody's mind on here? I doubt it. People are just defending their own preference, regardless of evidence.

You can post a pic of God's reef tank on here and people will disagree with his lighting if it does not agree with their prefered product. The sun is an inefficient method of lighting a reef if you ask me.

If I can keep one person from quitting this hobby because their lighting failed then I will keep trying. I want everyone to have an amazing reef.

 

[mhucasey]

I consider myself a halide loyalist but one that sold me on LED's was Bon's lagoon,I still use halides but tanks such as his show that creating something that is TOTM worthy can be done with LED.

His tank convinced me to buy Ecoxotic Cannons:facepalm: Then the Cannons didn't get the job done, and were replaced by T5s.

His tank was pretty stunning but I'm not sure what all was going on there. He started up the tank in December 2010, got Zeovit dream tank on June 7 2011, and his last post here was June 11th 2011. His last post on Zeovit's forum was the June 22 2011. About 7 months for that tank, then he disapeared, not sure if it was just a staged tank or what.

 

[kenpau]

LEDs are expensive, so getting the proper amount for coverage costs more money than most reefers consider reasonable. I'll buy that. I've been hearing that LEDs haven't been out long enough for reef tanks to develop under them for 3 years now. It doesn't take that long to grow a reef tank, so I don't buy that.

Why should reef keepers be forced to "perservere" tweaking spectrum and researching settings on a light fixture that costs more than existing technologies? If it was cheaper that would make sense, but for most technology when you pay more you should get ease of use in that cost.

Well you can create an amazing reef tank in one day if you go out and buy full colonies....if you're growing from frags then it will definitely take time.
"persevere" was probably the wrong choice of word by me. I guess an analogy would be when iPods came out, some people embraced them and in doing so had to learn how to download music, create playlists, transfer files etc. Other people sat there thinking it's too much effort, I'll stick with the proven Walkman/Discman, despite the obvious benefits of technological advances. Probably not the best analogy but you get where I'm going with it.
I would say with most technology there is more to learn, you buy a smart TV v's an old CRT TV, an Audi R6 v's a Holden Barina, etc etc. but again once you have learned to use the technology the benefits are obvious.

 

[markalot]

I don't think one had to buy 2 ipods just to hear the music in stereo.

I thought the BRS video on LED was quite good. I especially thought it was funny how he wanted to give a ? rating for spectrum since it's easy to totally screw it up with all the options. They have to sell LED fixtures so no way he could pan LED, but he came a lot closer than I thought he would.

 

[C.Eymann]

His tank convinced me to buy Ecoxotic Cannons:facepalm: Then the Cannons didn't get the job done, and were replaced by T5s.

His tank was pretty stunning but I'm not sure what all was going on there. He started up the tank in December 2010, got Zeovit dream tank on June 7 2011, and his last post here was June 11th 2011. His last post on Zeovit's forum was the June 22 2011. About 7 months for that tank, then he disapeared, not sure if it was just a staged tank or what.

This Bons from back in the day when he was still using halides, eitherway very talented aquarist.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSbL9wjN5GE

 

[mhucasey]

Well you can create an amazing reef tank in one day if you go out and buy full colonies....if you're growing from frags then it will definitely take time.
"persevere" was probably the wrong choice of word by me. I guess an analogy would be when iPods came out, some people embraced them and in doing so had to learn how to download music, create playlists, transfer files etc. Other people sat there thinking it's too much effort, I'll stick with the proven Walkman/Discman, despite the obvious benefits of technological advances. Probably not the best analogy but you get where I'm going with it.
I would say with most technology there is more to learn, you buy a smart TV v's an old CRT TV, an Audi R6 v's a Holden Barina, etc etc. but again once you have learned to use the technology the benefits are obvious.

No thats a good analogy, funny you mention it. I am a computer person and I used to build my own, overclock them, etc. When MP3s came out I spent many hours downloading MP3 files on my 56K connection, assembling files, and decompressing to play them on Winamp. The hoops that I had to jump through soured me on MP3s and I sort of gave up on them.

As the iPod came out and became big I couldn't believe people would subject themselves to such torture when they could use a CD! When the iPod Nano came out our company gave us one as part of a company anniversary and I was shocked at how easy it was to load with music and how easy to use the device was.

My point is, perhaps so much customizable/confusing LED options could sour someone on the hobby and cause them to give up early. Most folks don't have the patience to mess around with tons of settings, they just want something that works.

 

[C.Eymann]

No thats a good analogy, funny you mention it. I am a computer person and I used to build my own, overclock them, etc. When MP3s came out I spent many hours downloading MP3 files on my 56K connection, assembling files, and decompressing to play them on Winamp. The hoops that I had to jump through soured me on MP3s and I sort of gave up on them.

As the iPod came out and became big I couldn't believe people would subject themselves to such torture when they could use a CD! When the iPod Nano came out our company gave us one as part of a company anniversary and I was shocked at how easy it was to load with music and how easy to use the device was.

My point is, perhaps so much customizable/confusing LED options could sour someone on the hobby and cause them to give up early. Most folks don't have the patience to mess around with tons of settings, they just want something that works.

:beer: you and i need to have a beer, DIY burned CDs everyday

 

[heritage]

I can't evem get Itunes to work on my computer anymore. Stupid wondows 10.:mad2:

 

[mhucasey]

:beer: you and i need to have a beer, DIY burned CDs everyday

Yep yep, I used to DIY beer too:beer: