Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

Aqualund said:
Ah =(
Click to expand...

5,000SMD's equal about 830-ish 3W emitters.. ;)
as w/ most things in life the possible and the practical are in conflict.. ;)

I'm still not convinced about the stability or longevity of a "violet" emitter base either..but no real data to back that up, one way or another.
 
?? I don't understand this.

I use 365nm and 395nm 3W UV LEDs. They're commonly available.

In fact, I'm running 300W of this on my tank.

Where's the disconnect?
 
karimwassef said:
?? I don't understand this.

I use 365nm and 395nm 3W UV LEDs. They're commonly available.

In fact, I'm running 300W of this on my tank.

Where's the disconnect?
Click to expand...
Well w/ Yuji I assume it is a matter of the most common market.. SMD's for interior /architectural/advertising markets w/ the demand for high CRI..not so much for high bay/street light type lighting..

I think they can do 3w ect..but for some reason do not (might be a cost/competition thing) They do high CRI COB's ( up to 100W if not higher) w/the blue based emitters..but none using the violet based smd's.. Needs to be a reason, either technologically or economically.
The violet based smds are 2x th cost of the rb based ones as it is $90 for 100 1/2w 5630 emitters..
What I was referring to was burn out/failure of low wavelength LED's.
Most cheap ones use poly-carbonate lenses which degrade rapidly.. well in terms of a year or so.
Better ones use glass.. instantly jacking the price point.

Industry is weird, but if it was easy to do violet emitters w/ phosphors and get better results (higher CRI) we wouldn't have the market geared to rb base emitters..

Again, just speculation..

AND they are trying to find their niche.. AFAICT this was a chemical company specializing in selling phosphors that has added a new "division"..

considering they are more an OEM as well..not really "retail" though they try a bit..
I see they got some PAR lights back in.. 5600k 9W violet based emitters..4 for $154.. 110v dimmable..

still VTC are about $1 1/2W.. but no white above 6500k...just don't blink though... ;)
 
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karimwassef said:
Other than MH... is anyone using Ceramic MH, also called CDM (Ceramic Discharge Metal halide) ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_discharge_metal-halide_lamp

http://www.amazon.com/Sun-System-Emitting-Ceramic-Fixture/dp/B00HBCV8TM

http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HTGSupply-400-Watt-Ceramic-Metal-Halide-Grow-Light

I just found out about this, but apparently it's used in the movie and grow industries.
Click to expand...

not sure these are the same but an interesting product.. at $250/bulb..1000W.. 80,000 initial lumens.. subtract 25% in a short time.. ;)

http://www.eyehortilux.com/products/metal-halide#blue
 
Like I said.. They make plenty of these 3W 395nm and 365nm LED stars. They're more expensive, but not a big deal.

They even have them in multichip 100W and 200W configurations. Those are a lot more expensive, but again - very obtainable.

They're used in many industrial and chemical applications... Curing chemicals is big business. They're used in industrial printers to cure ink. They're used in electronics to cure conformal coatings on circuit boards. They're used in epoxy cures for all kinds of manufacturing. All screens Samsung and Apple smartphones in the last 5 years were assembled with UV LED. I'm not even going into metallurgical and medical industries.

High power UV LED is very common. I've been using them for two years in my DIYs.
 
karimwassef said:
Like I said.. They make plenty of these 3W 395nm and 365nm LED stars. They're more expensive, but not a big deal.

They even have them in multichip 100W and 200W configurations. Those are a lot more expensive, but again - very obtainable.

They're used in many industrial and chemical applications... Curing chemicals is big business. They're used in industrial printers to cure ink. They're used in electronics to cure conformal coatings on circuit boards. They're used in epoxy cures for all kinds of manufacturing. All screens Samsung and Apple smartphones in the last 5 years were assembled with UV LED. I'm not even going into metallurgical and medical industries.

High power UV LED is very common. I've been using them for two years in my DIYs.
Click to expand...

I don't think I said they weren't common, but I did say "common market"..
They are still a niche market compared to interior lighting ect..

Besides Yuji is not going into the UV base at all,, Why? got me..
I suppose I could argue "real" UV for "real" industrial uses are not cheap:
http://www.qphotonics.com/UVCLEAN-LED-Lamps/

Applications include UV curing, phototherapy, disinfection, water purification, fluorescent spectroscopy, bio-analysis and detection, sensors and monitors. QPhotonics ship all products of SETi, including their most popular UVTOP, UVCLEAN, and fiber coupled deep UV LEDs.
Click to expand...
$100 for 3mW.. going to $6249 for 50mW...

http://www.opsytec.com/products/uv-led-light-sources/large-area-uv-leds/

Pretty sure these diodes aren't bought on flea bay.. ;)
NOW I do understand industrial vs "retail" pricing as well..

Like I said.. "markets"..
“Compared to the multibillion dollar LED lighting industry, the UV-LED market is a rounding error at around $30 million, but it is growing rapidly,” said Mike Lim, director of global industrial and new business for Luminus Devices, based in Billerica, MA.

By far, the UV curing market is enjoying the greatest surge in UV-LED adoption due to the relatively recent breakthrough in flux density of UV-LED chips beyond the 4W/cm2 mark at the different wavelengths needed to bring UV-LED curing into production facilities. “For the first time, LEDs have reached the power densities that make UV LEDs competitive with existing sources,” said Uwe Thomas, general manager of emitter components with LED Engin, a provider of UV and visible LEDs based in Santa Clara, CA.

This article was published in the February 2012 issue of LEDs Magazine.
Click to expand...
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/article...he-quiet-side-of-the-led-market-magazine.html

rounding the circle again..
The replacement of epoxy lenses with flat or dome-shaped glass capable of UV transmission is a relatively new development, and one that has allowed an extension of lifetimes from around 5000 hours up to as high as 30,000 hours.
Click to expand...

epoxy lenses (old days) 2 years tops at 8hrs/ day..
 
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karimwassef said:
I don't see a ceramic source bulb? They usually don't use mogul bases too.
Click to expand...
Probably right.
Who here would buy a
3100°K or 4200°K
Click to expand...
rated MH??
;)
mogul based..
http://www.eyelighting.com/products/lamps/ceramic-metal-halide/

cera-mogul-thumb.JPG


Probably could easily produce high K ones.. again, marketing..
 
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wow...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3W-365nm-UV...264719?hash=item3a975887cf:g:00MAAOxyXDhScoqb

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-10-50-pcs...hash=item1a094d668a:m:mLEAJPXfqxUHe3Re17PB22A

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-50PCS-3W-...hash=item3d0c6024df:m:mZZQn3ctcE0Ils4mzgD4Pqg

Also used in counterfeit currency ID

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-30w-UV...hash=item2ee367490f:m:m0PVNeLfbq6XStkMh6DoZrA

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3w-10w-20w-...hash=item35e8fe095e:m:mJflHv74xaTxGwE6hkr9vIg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Viole...497691?hash=item3a9be3c0db:g:r8YAAOSwdpxUU51I

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100W-High-P...511283?hash=item463ea1f1b3:g:wh4AAOSwjVVVty4f

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Viole...355830?hash=item3cfc34ca36:g:C2UAAOSwl8NVfTus

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10W-High-Po...hash=item33b1d0232c:m:mw7Gg5PE-b0KecodDtQE2gw

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3w-10w-20w-...hash=item35e8fe095e:m:mJflHv74xaTxGwE6hkr9vIg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-30x3w-9...hash=item2c9c377597:m:mq2PAwHjHvWy3bySS1zVjYw

I don't know what else to say.
 
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There is already a white LED which has the best of 3 worlds.

Luxeon CoB Crispwhite
cob%20crispwhite.PNG


Significant output in violet, blue, and red range. Using these instead of cool white LEDs is all you need.
 
It doesn't show up in pics, but here you go

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/2CF7A78E-30D7-4C0C-B31F-53916517FFED_zpsz9loxyud.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/2CF7A78E-30D7-4C0C-B31F-53916517FFED_zpsz9loxyud.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2CF7A78E-30D7-4C0C-B31F-53916517FFED_zpsz9loxyud.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/4411BB3D-2F39-4FE8-8E9C-363FDFC6AE8D_zps0gpamiir.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/4411BB3D-2F39-4FE8-8E9C-363FDFC6AE8D_zps0gpamiir.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 4411BB3D-2F39-4FE8-8E9C-363FDFC6AE8D_zps0gpamiir.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/907195F2-0D26-4864-BD57-15CCCF2FA74F_zpsl9ixpl1n.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/907195F2-0D26-4864-BD57-15CCCF2FA74F_zpsl9ixpl1n.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 907195F2-0D26-4864-BD57-15CCCF2FA74F_zpsl9ixpl1n.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/1A883561-D096-48E0-9133-28706C000266_zpsw7fii8xr.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/1A883561-D096-48E0-9133-28706C000266_zpsw7fii8xr.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1A883561-D096-48E0-9133-28706C000266_zpsw7fii8xr.jpg"/></a>


<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/C0F6448D-8D9C-4DC5-8FE8-BB274860247C_zpssv8dsv35.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/C0F6448D-8D9C-4DC5-8FE8-BB274860247C_zpssv8dsv35.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo C0F6448D-8D9C-4DC5-8FE8-BB274860247C_zpssv8dsv35.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/82DC06F4-7AA5-4AE3-BD20-7E71E53947B4_zpsszx7gpvv.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/82DC06F4-7AA5-4AE3-BD20-7E71E53947B4_zpsszx7gpvv.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 82DC06F4-7AA5-4AE3-BD20-7E71E53947B4_zpsszx7gpvv.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/845905D0-5056-4EED-88D1-CED8FF1DC61C_zpsnnc9iouk.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/845905D0-5056-4EED-88D1-CED8FF1DC61C_zpsnnc9iouk.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 845905D0-5056-4EED-88D1-CED8FF1DC61C_zpsnnc9iouk.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/87C6BFFD-4813-4484-BBE0-4B2CE5EAEF4A_zpszrmj5cam.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/87C6BFFD-4813-4484-BBE0-4B2CE5EAEF4A_zpszrmj5cam.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 87C6BFFD-4813-4484-BBE0-4B2CE5EAEF4A_zpszrmj5cam.jpg"/></a>
 
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/47C7B235-34B8-456D-A081-582A9C648E5C_zpsrrnuebet.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/47C7B235-34B8-456D-A081-582A9C648E5C_zpsrrnuebet.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 47C7B235-34B8-456D-A081-582A9C648E5C_zpsrrnuebet.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/AA204EFC-F078-4157-B821-FD5E60668174_zps5k9ht0xb.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/AA204EFC-F078-4157-B821-FD5E60668174_zps5k9ht0xb.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo AA204EFC-F078-4157-B821-FD5E60668174_zps5k9ht0xb.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/E889CB48-6EA5-4E01-A0E8-F55326F591BB_zps8ig2mzr8.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/E889CB48-6EA5-4E01-A0E8-F55326F591BB_zps8ig2mzr8.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo E889CB48-6EA5-4E01-A0E8-F55326F591BB_zps8ig2mzr8.jpg"/></a>



<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/43B4613F-03CF-4CC8-9E4C-2FB4F4E9DCD3_zpslouxbzlm.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/43B4613F-03CF-4CC8-9E4C-2FB4F4E9DCD3_zpslouxbzlm.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 43B4613F-03CF-4CC8-9E4C-2FB4F4E9DCD3_zpslouxbzlm.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/1815EFE8-0446-46DA-96D6-F6746A6CD0DA_zpsldemhomi.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/1815EFE8-0446-46DA-96D6-F6746A6CD0DA_zpsldemhomi.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1815EFE8-0446-46DA-96D6-F6746A6CD0DA_zpsldemhomi.jpg"/></a>


When it's on with MH...

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/6AFD0E95-C3B5-4337-956F-56EA64F66C23_zpsmzhrdsud.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/6AFD0E95-C3B5-4337-956F-56EA64F66C23_zpsmzhrdsud.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 6AFD0E95-C3B5-4337-956F-56EA64F66C23_zpsmzhrdsud.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/B8E515EF-78BE-49D3-8C65-0809A95F1F53_zpsua9apkip.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/B8E515EF-78BE-49D3-8C65-0809A95F1F53_zpsua9apkip.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo B8E515EF-78BE-49D3-8C65-0809A95F1F53_zpsua9apkip.jpg"/></a>

and just UV again, bigger tank shots

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/55B6D729-3303-46CA-8934-DD6FD7CCE057_zpssh3unazv.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/55B6D729-3303-46CA-8934-DD6FD7CCE057_zpssh3unazv.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 55B6D729-3303-46CA-8934-DD6FD7CCE057_zpssh3unazv.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/811199E3-85B0-447F-9E75-5ABC5D4F726B_zpsaghcdnv2.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/811199E3-85B0-447F-9E75-5ABC5D4F726B_zpsaghcdnv2.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 811199E3-85B0-447F-9E75-5ABC5D4F726B_zpsaghcdnv2.jpg"/></a>
 
With 450nm and 395nm on too

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/FF8075C2-95F1-4396-96ED-17B4E3EED081_zps0qhs5kcg.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/FF8075C2-95F1-4396-96ED-17B4E3EED081_zps0qhs5kcg.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo FF8075C2-95F1-4396-96ED-17B4E3EED081_zps0qhs5kcg.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/DBF6A730-C2D1-4E93-AF43-545B8C09CEED_zpsvhudsnkz.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/DBF6A730-C2D1-4E93-AF43-545B8C09CEED_zpsvhudsnkz.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DBF6A730-C2D1-4E93-AF43-545B8C09CEED_zpsvhudsnkz.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/F1A0685C-88D9-4F88-9B6B-8669035C02D0_zpssbz4e0mn.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/F1A0685C-88D9-4F88-9B6B-8669035C02D0_zpssbz4e0mn.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo F1A0685C-88D9-4F88-9B6B-8669035C02D0_zpssbz4e0mn.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/67E7E18F-9EDD-4E17-BA8D-F85984D0B83D_zpsyzyvd2nk.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/67E7E18F-9EDD-4E17-BA8D-F85984D0B83D_zpsyzyvd2nk.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 67E7E18F-9EDD-4E17-BA8D-F85984D0B83D_zpsyzyvd2nk.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/9A313339-151F-4B1F-BD9D-83C6BD06207E_zps9u5knuix.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/9A313339-151F-4B1F-BD9D-83C6BD06207E_zps9u5knuix.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 9A313339-151F-4B1F-BD9D-83C6BD06207E_zps9u5knuix.jpg"/></a>
 
you can mix and match to have nearly any effect you want with LEDs.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/95D9E5E9-81A0-4410-860A-0816E9DBDDC1_zpsshwecynq.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/95D9E5E9-81A0-4410-860A-0816E9DBDDC1_zpsshwecynq.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 95D9E5E9-81A0-4410-860A-0816E9DBDDC1_zpsshwecynq.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/50C1C992-D413-4C88-96D2-61166C3CB723_zps8nag3eln.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/50C1C992-D413-4C88-96D2-61166C3CB723_zps8nag3eln.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 50C1C992-D413-4C88-96D2-61166C3CB723_zps8nag3eln.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/1359E28F-6925-4E5C-B94C-6665CF0E4965_zpsplsbwmdv.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/1359E28F-6925-4E5C-B94C-6665CF0E4965_zpsplsbwmdv.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1359E28F-6925-4E5C-B94C-6665CF0E4965_zpsplsbwmdv.jpg"/></a>
 
karimwassef said:
you can mix and match to have nearly any effect you want with LEDs.
Click to expand...

Yes you can...but the "nearly" doesnt go far enough in my humble opinion. Im thinking we need a spread from 365 up to 430, so like using a 365 base with a phosphor emitted range covering all frequencies up to 430, not just discrete ones at specified frequencies.
 
karimwassef said:
wow...



I don't know what else to say.
Click to expand...

not sure about what you are trying to "argue" about??
My point was:
1)Nobody is doping UV based LEDs to create "white"
2)Historically UVLED had a short lifespan, countered by using glass instead of epoxy lenses. i'm not convinced this is completely "fixed"...personal opinion.
Not sure "purple" or fake UV are any better, esp. at the low ranges (410nm ect.)
3)Companies do as they see fit to match whatever market they want.
4)" common markets" have little need to use UV base emitters for white. Royal blue and violet are "good enough". Currently nobody will build a UV based white for a teeny tiny market such as this.. RB currently rules the day.
May be more status quo than technical.
Too bad though.
5)Fact is we can get UV chips, use them, and even have multiple (though tight) spectrum chips is not in question..and at a fair price though quality is still questionable, as much as any "color"
I have a box of burnt out high K 3W whites that lasted a very short time (year plus) but cost pennies on a dollar compared to "good" chips. Casual observation.
6) Why Yuji sticks w/ 1/2 emitters is a ????, yes other bases are available.

Can't find anything of mine that I disagree w/ you about really...
 
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