Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

Lol. Well I asked AI for a formula if there is one to calculate par/pur based on intensity, water depth and height of said leds.

It should be somewhat applicable to most people.
 
Aqualund said:
Absolutely certain LED's cannot recreate the sub 450nm spectral plot of T5's or MH. They can get some specific frequencies, but only a few, and specific.
Click to expand...

Well technically they probably can but w a violet based LED and the right phosphors. (speculation)
Problem is likely they won't because having too little "blue" was never an LED "problem"..

Probably all of the phosphor research/commercialization was to make LED's less blue/more white..
OR, as to hort, ect more red..or for archet. higher CRI.
http://www.yujiintl.com/phosphors/#listing

Putting a blue phosphor (ala T5/MH ) in an LED is commercially non-productive..IF even feasible.
Blue phosphors use UV to florescence blue..
One can easily imagine taking a UV LED and adding equiv. RGB phosphors to create a "like" light. commercially not on anyones radar..

http://www.yujiintl.com/custom-led-spectrum
Well... looks to be way more possible than I thought.. ;)

yug.jpg
 
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oreo57 said:
Well technically they probably can but w a violet based LED and the right phosphors. (speculation)
Problem is likely they won't because having too little "blue" was never an LED "problem"..

Probably all of the phosphor research/commercialization was to make LED's less blue/more white..
OR, as to hort, ect more red..or for archet. higher CRI.
http://www.yujiintl.com/phosphors/#listing

Putting a blue phosphor (ala T5/MH ) in an LED is commercially non-productive..IF even feasible.
Blue phosphors use UV to florescence blue..
One can easily imagine taking a UV LED and adding equiv. RGB phosphors to create a "like" light. commercially not on anyones radar..

http://www.yujiintl.com/custom-led-spectrum
Click to expand...


Well yeah, I should've clarified that LED's available to the average hobbyist cannot cover this range appropriately to call it equivalent to MH or T5 :)

But this page...this page gets me really excited.

http://www.yujiintl.com/custom-led-spectrum

Have you contacted them to get an idea of pricing oreo?
 
Aqualund said:
Well yeah, I should've clarified that LED's available to the average hobbyist cannot cover this range appropriately to call it equivalent to MH or T5 :)

But this page...this page gets me really excited.

http://www.yujiintl.com/custom-led-spectrum

Have you contacted them to get an idea of pricing oreo?
Click to expand...

Me too.. ;)
Not for custom phosphors. I had to get some pricing for some custom high CRI violet based strips using constant current... Tooling setup charge was enormous..for small lot stuff.. a few grand worth of diodes in a "one of" run..
They do have an office in california and the people there were quite helpful..
Just email them. Response time was quite good.
 
Aqualund said:
Ah =(
Click to expand...

5,000SMD's equal about 830-ish 3W emitters.. ;)
as w/ most things in life the possible and the practical are in conflict.. ;)

I'm still not convinced about the stability or longevity of a "violet" emitter base either..but no real data to back that up, one way or another.
 
?? I don't understand this.

I use 365nm and 395nm 3W UV LEDs. They're commonly available.

In fact, I'm running 300W of this on my tank.

Where's the disconnect?
 
karimwassef said:
?? I don't understand this.

I use 365nm and 395nm 3W UV LEDs. They're commonly available.

In fact, I'm running 300W of this on my tank.

Where's the disconnect?
Click to expand...
Well w/ Yuji I assume it is a matter of the most common market.. SMD's for interior /architectural/advertising markets w/ the demand for high CRI..not so much for high bay/street light type lighting..

I think they can do 3w ect..but for some reason do not (might be a cost/competition thing) They do high CRI COB's ( up to 100W if not higher) w/the blue based emitters..but none using the violet based smd's.. Needs to be a reason, either technologically or economically.
The violet based smds are 2x th cost of the rb based ones as it is $90 for 100 1/2w 5630 emitters..
What I was referring to was burn out/failure of low wavelength LED's.
Most cheap ones use poly-carbonate lenses which degrade rapidly.. well in terms of a year or so.
Better ones use glass.. instantly jacking the price point.

Industry is weird, but if it was easy to do violet emitters w/ phosphors and get better results (higher CRI) we wouldn't have the market geared to rb base emitters..

Again, just speculation..

AND they are trying to find their niche.. AFAICT this was a chemical company specializing in selling phosphors that has added a new "division"..

considering they are more an OEM as well..not really "retail" though they try a bit..
I see they got some PAR lights back in.. 5600k 9W violet based emitters..4 for $154.. 110v dimmable..

still VTC are about $1 1/2W.. but no white above 6500k...just don't blink though... ;)
 
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karimwassef said:
Other than MH... is anyone using Ceramic MH, also called CDM (Ceramic Discharge Metal halide) ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_discharge_metal-halide_lamp

http://www.amazon.com/Sun-System-Emitting-Ceramic-Fixture/dp/B00HBCV8TM

http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HTGSupply-400-Watt-Ceramic-Metal-Halide-Grow-Light

I just found out about this, but apparently it's used in the movie and grow industries.
Click to expand...

not sure these are the same but an interesting product.. at $250/bulb..1000W.. 80,000 initial lumens.. subtract 25% in a short time.. ;)

http://www.eyehortilux.com/products/metal-halide#blue
 
Like I said.. They make plenty of these 3W 395nm and 365nm LED stars. They're more expensive, but not a big deal.

They even have them in multichip 100W and 200W configurations. Those are a lot more expensive, but again - very obtainable.

They're used in many industrial and chemical applications... Curing chemicals is big business. They're used in industrial printers to cure ink. They're used in electronics to cure conformal coatings on circuit boards. They're used in epoxy cures for all kinds of manufacturing. All screens Samsung and Apple smartphones in the last 5 years were assembled with UV LED. I'm not even going into metallurgical and medical industries.

High power UV LED is very common. I've been using them for two years in my DIYs.
 
karimwassef said:
Like I said.. They make plenty of these 3W 395nm and 365nm LED stars. They're more expensive, but not a big deal.

They even have them in multichip 100W and 200W configurations. Those are a lot more expensive, but again - very obtainable.

They're used in many industrial and chemical applications... Curing chemicals is big business. They're used in industrial printers to cure ink. They're used in electronics to cure conformal coatings on circuit boards. They're used in epoxy cures for all kinds of manufacturing. All screens Samsung and Apple smartphones in the last 5 years were assembled with UV LED. I'm not even going into metallurgical and medical industries.

High power UV LED is very common. I've been using them for two years in my DIYs.
Click to expand...

I don't think I said they weren't common, but I did say "common market"..
They are still a niche market compared to interior lighting ect..

Besides Yuji is not going into the UV base at all,, Why? got me..
I suppose I could argue "real" UV for "real" industrial uses are not cheap:
http://www.qphotonics.com/UVCLEAN-LED-Lamps/

Applications include UV curing, phototherapy, disinfection, water purification, fluorescent spectroscopy, bio-analysis and detection, sensors and monitors. QPhotonics ship all products of SETi, including their most popular UVTOP, UVCLEAN, and fiber coupled deep UV LEDs.
Click to expand...
$100 for 3mW.. going to $6249 for 50mW...

http://www.opsytec.com/products/uv-led-light-sources/large-area-uv-leds/

Pretty sure these diodes aren't bought on flea bay.. ;)
NOW I do understand industrial vs "retail" pricing as well..

Like I said.. "markets"..
“Compared to the multibillion dollar LED lighting industry, the UV-LED market is a rounding error at around $30 million, but it is growing rapidly,” said Mike Lim, director of global industrial and new business for Luminus Devices, based in Billerica, MA.

By far, the UV curing market is enjoying the greatest surge in UV-LED adoption due to the relatively recent breakthrough in flux density of UV-LED chips beyond the 4W/cm2 mark at the different wavelengths needed to bring UV-LED curing into production facilities. “For the first time, LEDs have reached the power densities that make UV LEDs competitive with existing sources,” said Uwe Thomas, general manager of emitter components with LED Engin, a provider of UV and visible LEDs based in Santa Clara, CA.

This article was published in the February 2012 issue of LEDs Magazine.
Click to expand...
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/article...he-quiet-side-of-the-led-market-magazine.html

rounding the circle again..
The replacement of epoxy lenses with flat or dome-shaped glass capable of UV transmission is a relatively new development, and one that has allowed an extension of lifetimes from around 5000 hours up to as high as 30,000 hours.
Click to expand...

epoxy lenses (old days) 2 years tops at 8hrs/ day..
 
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wow...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3W-365nm-UV...264719?hash=item3a975887cf:g:00MAAOxyXDhScoqb

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-10-50-pcs...hash=item1a094d668a:m:mLEAJPXfqxUHe3Re17PB22A

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-50PCS-3W-...hash=item3d0c6024df:m:mZZQn3ctcE0Ils4mzgD4Pqg

Also used in counterfeit currency ID

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-30w-UV...hash=item2ee367490f:m:m0PVNeLfbq6XStkMh6DoZrA

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3w-10w-20w-...hash=item35e8fe095e:m:mJflHv74xaTxGwE6hkr9vIg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Viole...497691?hash=item3a9be3c0db:g:r8YAAOSwdpxUU51I

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100W-High-P...511283?hash=item463ea1f1b3:g:wh4AAOSwjVVVty4f

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Viole...355830?hash=item3cfc34ca36:g:C2UAAOSwl8NVfTus

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10W-High-Po...hash=item33b1d0232c:m:mw7Gg5PE-b0KecodDtQE2gw

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3w-10w-20w-...hash=item35e8fe095e:m:mJflHv74xaTxGwE6hkr9vIg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-30x3w-9...hash=item2c9c377597:m:mq2PAwHjHvWy3bySS1zVjYw

I don't know what else to say.
 
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There is already a white LED which has the best of 3 worlds.

Luxeon CoB Crispwhite
cob%20crispwhite.PNG


Significant output in violet, blue, and red range. Using these instead of cool white LEDs is all you need.
 
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