Congratulations, you have just been marketed to.
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
Congratulations, you have just been marketed to.
Salty150
New member
Well, do you have any other studies that state otherwise?
Aqualund
New member
Hi Aqualund!
Thx for your comments! I currently have no acro's in my tank to do a comparison with....all I know for sure is the stylo's in the center of the tank, that get light from both sources about equally, are growing towards the Kessil. I was also advised one should use PUR values (versus PAR) when measuring LED's true output, but PUR instruments are rarer and much more expensive... so those measurements are unlikely to be done by me.
"not receiving incidental light in the ranges (LEDs do not have) from the MH"....I'm curious, what ranges of the spectrum are the Kessils missing? They are fully adjustable from 10,000k up to 20,000k and I was told they produce very good UV (30%)... but I have no way to confirm that personally.
*edit* And this is not really an on-going test ..I was sort of forced into it when I dunked one of the Kessils (lots of VERY colorful language, followed by self-loathing and shame) that was on the right hand side of my tank, so I pulled out my Current USA mH fixture, replaced the bulbs and mounted it in the drowned Kessil's place a few months ago. I plan to replace the mH when the summer months arrive (I had some heat problems before with the mH) with another Kessil, which runs considerably cooler.
Cheers, Tim
Comforably,
Yeah I agree on the Kessils. On paper they have what I think is the best combination of leds that is the closest to the necessary wavelengths for coral growth and coloration...and they definitely meet the criteria in the majoprity of cases. Having personally used them, I also like th anecdotal evidence as well.
But like any led fixture, they do not have a continuous range of wavelengths like a MH or T5, especially below 455nm. yes Im quite sure they have violet leds that go to 420nm maybe? But they don't have anything below that, and anything below 455nm from an led is a specific wavelength. (because there are no phosphors being used to make the color at this range)
The debate comes into play with coloring and growing Acroporas, and those that have attempted grwoth of these corals with Both MH and LED like to look at these wavelength gaps as glaring examples of the shortcomings of LEDs. Myself included.
Is it peer reviewed and proven? No.
But it is for these reasons that you cannot compare even full spectrum LEDs 1:1 with MH or T5.
markalot
...
Otherwise to what?
Johnseye
Reef Addict
Many thousands of dollars on marketing is a tiny amount. That paper is pure marketing. At first I was excited to see it. Then when I realized the coral choices they made I was disappointed.
If they wanted to create a true scientific white paper they would have chosen a wide variety of corals. This was a targeted effort in order to show LEDs can grow coral better than other lights. What it did prove was that some select coral can grow better under LED in the conditions they created. We knew that already.
If you look at their Radion - MH trough they used 4 Radion fixtures against 2 250w MH fixtures.
Salty150
New member
That LEDs are not effective when growing corals?
Or that MH are a lot better than LEDs when growing corals?
What I meant was risking their live stock under them. Putting at risk their own business and livelihoods on these lights. Nothing experimental about that.
markalot
...
That's what I thought. Sorry, you may be in the wrong thread.
Salty150
New member
Maybe because the Radion has a Max. Wattage of 170W - and they were not at maximum strength?
Salty150
New member
Actually no - I am looking at new lighting and am interested in the Radions - but if there is really proof that they don't work as well as MH - then I guess I might have to rethink.
But, from your answer, I am guessing there isn't?
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markalot
...
Depends. If you aren't going to have an SPS Acro focused tank I think many here might agree LED will work fine.
If you are then you will want to at least double the fixture count to avoid shadowing of the acros, possible more depending on tank dimensions. Think of a stage with an actor and how they would appear with just one or two spotlights overhead.
I'm far far from an expert, just another newb that started with LED and then moved to T5 due to shadowing and growth issues with my acros.
alton
Well-known member
Actually at 100% across the board on Radion Generation 3 Pros I used a meter and they drew 2.2 amps, which is equal to 1 - 250w MH electronic ballast. Everyone I know loves there Radions. And no one uses theirs at 100%, most are at 50 to 60%. If you went with radions I don't think you would be disappointed
ReefCowboy
New member
Its funny after so long the Radion Pros have been out, with the Majority of sps enthusiasts failing at keeping growth and colors under those fixtures, somehow "magic" happened at Reef Whesalers and LED's trumped MH and T5's... I wonder why we dont see this miracle happening more often? Is that research article being fair with most corals in those systems looking better under LED's or did they pick some to plead their case...
Important to mention unbiased studies such as BRS point other LEDs over Radions, and I have yet to see one favoring those lights over T5's and MH. Good try Ecotech, but your research is yet to be believed.
Important to mention unbiased studies such as BRS point other LEDs over Radions, and I have yet to see one favoring those lights over T5's and MH. Good try Ecotech, but your research is yet to be believed.
shred5
Premium Member
You really need to read the thread there is a reason it is 226 pages long. There are a few people who wandered in here and got blind sided.
Turning up the fixture will only increase the par. Par really is not a issue with any good quality fixture and lamp for Halides, LED or t-5 and obviously led dont use lamps. Spectrum is where they differ the most and led is a little short on spectrum.
Actually Aqualund hit it on the head in his previous post.
With any lighting technology there is give and take. With leds you get lower energy, cooler, dimming ability etc. but a little less spectrum.
That does not mean they dont work well, they certainly can keep coral and even make them grow. You do loose a little color in some sps, mainly ones from shallower water that are exposed to higher levels of UV. That also does not mean they loose total color or do not have great color in some sps. There is give and take with all lighting technology. There are some very nice sps led lit tanks.
Personally I do not use halides not because they do not produce the best coloration but the power. I would be popping breakers, I also do not use led even though I have in the past. I use t-5, it is kind of in the middle with a little better spectrum and still somewhat energy savings. I also have used allot of halides in the past though and is my favorite.
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ComforablyNumb
New member
Hi again Aqualand
Are you sure about that? I see conflicting testimony to yours, specifically:
"Kessil has huge peaks in the 400 range and something that really nobody else has, a peak in the UVA (mid-high 300s). The PUR of the kessils is ridiculous which is why they have such great outcomes with a relatively low par compared to some of the other LED manufacturers."
That post was backed up by slief, a sponser of the site: (near the bottom of the page)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2573290
Its hard to know who to believe.
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Salty150
New member
Hi again Aqualand
Are you sure about that? I see conflicting testimony to yours, specifically:
"Kessil has huge peaks in the 400 range and something that really nobody else has, a peak in the UVA (mid-high 300s). The PUR of the kessils is ridiculous which is why they have such great outcomes with a relatively low par compared to some of the other LED manufacturers."
That post was backed up by slief, a sponser of the site: (near the bottom of the page)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2573290
Its hard to know who to believe.
Is the Kessil AP700 the closest LED to a MH and T5 combo?
shred5
Premium Member
Hi again Aqualand
Are you sure about that? I see conflicting testimony to yours, specifically:
"Kessil has huge peaks in the 400 range and something that really nobody else has, a peak in the UVA (mid-high 300s). The PUR of the kessils is ridiculous which is why they have such great outcomes with a relatively low par compared to some of the other LED manufacturers."
That post was backed up by slief, a sponser of the site: (near the bottom of the page)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2573290
Its hard to know who to believe.
UV is not known too affect growth at least not that i am aware of and if it did it would probably would negatively.. Corals do not like it just like they do not like red spectrum. They produce proteins and pigment to either block or change it.
There is not a LED used in a aquarium light fixture yet that could cause sunburn or browning of the skin. There are leds out there that do but they cost more than a fixture would.
I started to run a experiment with two exact tanks tied to the same sump. One tank lit by t-5 and one by full spectrum led. I did not see much difference in growth but coloration was different. It didn't last long since they were frag tanks and I did not need to loose colors. after about 3 months I had enough, there are better fixtures now than the one I used though.
Other than on frag tanks I do not see why growth is so important, most sps grow fast as it is.
Wazzel
New member
LEDs work fine on acro focused tanks also. They are just different. A LED tank is not going to look just like a MH lit tank. To expect them to look exactly alike is an unrealistic expectation.
You will need more fixtures than the manufactures recommend. From what I have seen it will be 1.5 to 2 times the specs, depending.
Growth has never been a problem for me. Shadowing was an issue until I added the second fixture. Color is still fine tuning at this time. I spent to much time trying to get max power out of the two units I over lit my corals a lot. Things have gotten darker since I came off full power.
