Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

fishinthewall said:
Has any one who has had both seen a difference in growth patterns? I understand growth is more flow related, but given the same params would led and mh have the same health/thickness/length of sps frames?
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I have not noticed a different between this tank (LED) and my last tank (MH/VHO) in how things grow. From what I have seen flow is the controlling parameter on growth, not saying other factors do not influence how corals grow. If you want big thick branches, up the flow.
 
I have no doubt that LEDs can grow corals. For me, it was having too many options and not being able to control the spectrum like I think the corals prefer. T5 was a front runner for me but the cost to replace 10-12 bulbs each year was a bit extreme. And for me, while I know LEDs with t5 or halide with led or t5 works it's a bit confusing. It shows no light is perfect. We use halide with t5 to get a better color. Control heat. Led and t5 to prevent shadows and get best color. My big thing was which is the lead in the set up. Is it led with t5 or t5 with led? It's trivial so I went back to halide because it's easy. I will eventually try to add led light bars to it, but mostly to lengthen my viewing time.

Corey
 
DavidinGA said:
Absolutely.

If your setting up a hardcore sps tank and I say "led plus T5 is the best" it would only be the best in the sense that it's really a compromise as its been proven that Mh can grow sps faster (if nothing else).

Every option is a compromise in one way or another.

If you say mh is the best, I might agree but add that it's only the best if your willing to deal with the excess heat and electricity costs.... Pro's/con's to everything.
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There are pros and cons to different lighting but after using LEDs, I didn't find there to be nearly the electrical savings that I thought.

Mainly because my heaters were running all the time.

Savings was nil to minimal at best.
 
Winter can be cold but the house stays heated. Just happened to notice my heaters were on more often with LEDs which I feel really made using LEDs from an electrical savings viewpoint a wash.
 
I recently upgraded to a larger tank and decided to move away from LEDs. My SPS dominated nano is running AI Prime and the shadowing was really bad. So I decided to go with halide.

Just a thought.... I think LEDs do poorly when in a cube-shaped tank. If the tank were longer in length, then you'd be forced to use multiple LED fixtures, which will allow you to minimize the shadowing. But in a cube, you typically use a single point of light, which can cause shadowing.
 
HaroldT said:
There are pros and cons to different lighting but after using LEDs, I didn't find there to be nearly the electrical savings that I thought.



Mainly because my heaters were running all the time.



Savings was nil to minimal at best.
Click to expand...



If you're looking at efficiency, heating a tank with an electric heater will always be more efficient than with MH (or any other kind of lighting.) The need to run electric heaters will certainly reduce the savings, but it will still be less energy. Did you actually measure watts consumed or just notice that your heaters were on more?

All of this depends on the ambient temp of the room, type of heating for the room, etc. in addition, in many areas of the country it's warm enough that heat is an issue in the summer, even if it isn't in the winter. If you're running A/C then you also get a less visible but more significant savings because less ambient heat is created causing the A/C to run less.
 
radiated IR is a pretty good way to transfer heat... :)

if you've got thinning or no hair (like some might/not me though....), try sticking your head under a 400W MH ... you'll feel the brain sizzling IR. :D

The conducted heat is not efficiently transferred to the water - that's true. But if the room is cold, it becomes a space heater around the tank. More gains!
 
Not EXACTLY in line with the thread, but after giving LEDs a try myself, I was left underwhelmed. I've seen a handful of people make a successful transition but I was not one of them. Decided to close the chapter out on my time with LEDs and picked up a used ATI 8x54 watt Sunpower to use on my 90 gallon. Overkill? Yeah a little, but they'll be 12" over the water but sitting on top of a canopy so even at that height I will have no light spill (even out the top as the fixture covers the entire footprint.

I'd rather replace bulbs annually on a light source that just works and has no guessing involved. Haven't physically switched the lights over just yet, but the new fixture is in my possession. Still need to order a few more bulbs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ComforablyNumb said:
Spectral graph for Kessils, you can clearly see there is output in 380-400nm range:



Note: you can even control the 370nm- 420nm output with the 100% variable settings that are avail on the a360w!


Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7XLgLiA0PM ..... at about the 24 minute mark
Cheers, Tim
Click to expand...

Fair enough, some of the charts I saw "mentioned" a 390nm led but no concrete evidence. I would assume based on this chart they at least have 1 or 2 390nm or even 380nm leds in the matrix.

This addresses a small part of the argument for the spectrum deficiencies below 455nm. Just because there is a continuous line on the spectral plot, it by no means represents a continuous spectral variety from say...380 up to 455. These are very discrete values, and because there is no phosphor emission below 455nm, then there are many holes in the spectral variety.

(But to be very real about this...if you were to compare a plot of the Kessil versus a plot of a Radium 20k, and integrate the plot for everything below 455nm, the Kessils provide nearly 50% less light in this area which cannot be overcome by any manner of tuning...and that's not even addressing spectral variety)

For me personally, I am perfectly happy with running Kessils and supplementing with Actinic T5's to cover that problem.

But this is me being picky and expecting a completely different light source to perform the same or better as another (in regards to growth and coloration of certain types of acropora).

I just want to add though, that I think Kessil is doing the best job of all LED manufacturers of offering a simple and competent lighting solution for coral enthusiasts. I would have literally no problem using these lights and recommending them to others as a very good option for lighting their tanks. I feel in like 5 years they might be the first ones to actually have a direct Halide replacement. Here's hoping! :)
 
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Aqualund said:
I just want to add though, that I think Kessil is doing the best job of all LED manufacturers of offering a simple and competent lighting solution for coral enthusiasts. I would have literally no problem using these lights and recommending them to others as a very good option for lighting their tanks. I feel in like 5 years they might be the first ones to actually have a direct Halide replacement. Here's hoping! :)
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They are great lights and leave little room (compared to other lights) for user error. The only real downside is that they probably require the most planning for arrangement and aquascaping because of the spotlight nature of the LED. Easy to overcome if you put some thought into it, IMO.

I've had a lot of different mainstream LED systems and so far, for stand alone LED units, the kessil is a win for me. I've yet to try radions, however.
 
Well after to years of using BML's I switched over my new 180 to them. Of course they only make horticulture leds now, but hopefully they will get back into market? For me MH is the best but I wanted low profile and less evaporation. BML for me made it easy, I run them at 80% on a manual dimmer. Like others I care less about the ramping up and down and color control. The 20K has 400nm leds and all the way through the entire spectrum. I tried most of the chinese black boxes and it didn't work for me. Another plus for BML was the fact there leds are not spot lights, so the chance of burning is nill or none. The light is more like T5HO with good reflectors.
My old 300DD

My new 180
 
Aqualund said:
...
This addresses a small part of the argument for the spectrum deficiencies below 455nm. Just because there is a continuous line on the spectral plot, it by no means represents a continuous spectral variety from say...380 up to 455. These are very discrete values, and because there is no phosphor emission below 455nm, then there are many holes in the spectral variety.
...
Click to expand...
I've seen this mentioned several times here, but have not seen any corroborating evidence. That does not make what you have written wrong, I just like to see evidence from a known source.

The one thing that is definitely missing from most LED lights is sub 400nm light. I believe Orphec puts UV-A diodes in their lights as well.
 
Fredfish said:
I've seen this mentioned several times here, but have not seen any corroborating evidence. That does not make what you have written wrong, I just like to see evidence from a known source.

The one thing that is definitely missing from most LED lights is sub 400nm light. I believe Orphec puts UV-A diodes in their lights as well.
Click to expand...
some people just insist on believing LED have laser like emission spectra.. ;) when the truth is they can have 30nm north and south of the major peak..in an effective range (somewhere around 20%)
0CDar.jpg

LED4D_AllLED_Spectra.gif

not that you can't have holes.. but not near as "bad" as one is led to believe..

"some people" believe this is all smoke and mirrors but have Never produced ANY hard evidence ..ever
http://www.edn.com/design/led/4375668/Accurately-Plot-Colors-from-Power-Spectrum-Data

http://www.ssi.shimadzu.com/products/literature/uv/VIS/SSI-Pittcon12-UV-001.pdf
 
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alton said:
Well after to years of using BML's I switched over my new 180 to them. Of course they only make horticulture leds now, but hopefully they will get back into market? For me MH is the best but I wanted low profile and less evaporation. BML for me made it easy, I run them at 80% on a manual dimmer. Like others I care less about the ramping up and down and color control. The 20K has 400nm leds and all the way through the entire spectrum. I tried most of the chinese black boxes and it didn't work for me. Another plus for BML was the fact there leds are not spot lights, so the chance of burning is nill or none. The light is more like T5HO with good reflectors.

My new 180
Click to expand...

Which combo of BML did you select?
 
Fredfish said:
I've seen this mentioned several times here, but have not seen any corroborating evidence. That does not make what you have written wrong, I just like to see evidence from a known source.

The one thing that is definitely missing from most LED lights is sub 400nm light. I believe Orphec puts UV-A diodes in their lights as well.
Click to expand...

Kessil has a significant peak at 380.
 
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