Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[markalot]

so you ADDED more PAR or did you shut off the LEDs?
Why would it be surprising that adding more photons increased growth?

Maybe I'm missing something here...

You did. Like I said, MATCH PAR using a PAR meter. I own one. More light does not always equal more growth by the way.

And like I said, either you, they, them, believe it or you don't. I have the tank, I have the experience, I have the results that I like.

One final thing, because you seem to miss it every time.


ACROPORA COLOR AND GROWTH.

Even Ecotech could not SHOW the results using ACROPORA with their LED study, instead they showed a couple of pale montis.

All I care about is Acropora, everything else does fine under LED as far as I'm concerned.

3 months growth.

 

[oreo57]

Hard to believe one source..
Sorry for the misunderstanding and clarification..

Anyways the funny thing is it's both ways...but like I tried to say I "believe" growing shallow water corals w/ blue and high k white LEd's is a mistake..It's not "the" leds but what LEDs

sorry this 3 yr old thread may need updating and a link to it is verboten..
but you get stuff like this:

Good topic Scott and one I've been immersed in a while now myself. And with incredible results. Been saying it for a little while now, but I really believe the secret is in the warm/neutral whites. I ran fixtures with cools and warms over the same system and the results were very clearly discernable as to what worked and what didn't.


Not going for the plug here but to illustrate my convictions, everything in this pack but the purple guy was grown 100% under LEDs. I could show you many many more. Color's there and so is growth. For me the question as to "do they?" has long been answered. It's now more a question of "for how long?" And don't get me wrong I'm still running plenty of HID's, but every time I need to buy another 16 T5's or a round of radiums I'm closer to switching over. I may be in the minority on this one, but I have yet to have any real trade offs in the switch to leds. In a lot of cases my sps look better. I would not have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes. It took me a while to really accept it, but I can't deny what in from of me. Since you specifically asked for some details, I personally run no frills reefbreeder fixtures at 100% and high above the water. 20+ inches in some cases. Spread is good and heat is zero. These fixtures have warms only, not a single cool in there.

Aesthetically still inferior to the Radium in my opinion, I'll admit that I run halides over my own display. But for propagation, you cant hardly beat them if you ask me.


My advice Scott, would be to have someone build you a fixture (assuming you must have some LED's savoy friends) with plenty of warms and blues, and try them out over some sps in your main. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what you see.

a little of both..
https://www.(guess).com/threads/led...hed-some-light-on-this-topic-urrghhhh.203010/

 

[markalot]

I run hybrid, as well indicated in my signature. I prefer the look of LED, T5 is too flat, Actually I prefer the look of Halide, but LED plus T5 gets me close. I don't run white LED's.

Show me the pictures that prove color and growth is there. We've been asking for years now. Bad cell phone pictures do not count, saying it's hard to show LED pics does not count.

This is my little 40 gallon, all LED. No acros in here.

Proper white balance is easy using the right tools, so I want to see some Acropora pics grown exclusively under LED showing the colors and growth we see when grown under T5 and Halide. That's all. With the picture please include the lights used, the light cycle, and the settings (spectrum etc). Also please include the total light wattage for reference so we know how much power we will be saving. Total cost for all lights would be helpful as well.

If it can be done we'd all be nuts not to switch.

 

[Tripod1404]

One think with LEDs is that it atleast make keeping Clams easier. It is trange becouse even the most "low light" clam requires more light than most SPS corals and all clams can adapt to intense light that would bleach most corals. I have no idea why but I get much better growth from clams with LEDs compared to T5s or MHs. One derasa clam I got grew from ~2 inches to 10 inches in 18 months or so.

Maybe it is because Clams like hot spots generated by LEDs, or they like the intense directional light.

 

[Tripod1404]

I run hybrid, as well indicated in my signature. I prefer the look of LED, T5 is too flat, Actually I prefer the look of Halide, but LED plus T5 gets me close. I don't run white LED's.

Show me the pictures that prove color and growth is there. We've been asking for years now. Bad cell phone pictures do not count, saying it's hard to show LED pics does not count.

This is my little 40 gallon, all LED. No acros in here.

Proper white balance is easy using the right tools, so I want to see some Acropora pics grown exclusively under LED showing the colors and growth we see when grown under T5 and Halide. That's all. With the picture please include the lights used, the light cycle, and the settings (spectrum etc). Also please include the total light wattage for reference so we know how much power we will be saving. Total cost for all lights would be helpful as well.

If it can be done we'd all be nuts not to switch.

WOW is that a massive black cap basslet !!!

 

[markalot]

WOW is that a massive black cap basslet !!!

Ha, optical illusion I think.

Tiny tang. The 3 year old Basslet is fat, but not that big.

 

[Tripod1404]

Ha, optical illusion I think.

Tiny tang. The 3 year old Basslet is fat, but not that big.

Lol yeah I think the tang mislead me

 

[dz6t]

something for everyone:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...tzgerald.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0J-9wHK1p-RyDZ0cXYpmOE

Teaser:




Same old same old LED used:

This paper is very interesting, the author compared a 29w led, vs a 72w t5 and 250w metal halide.
Based on the growth rate reported, led looked like a hero here.



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[jestronix]

This paper is very interesting, the author compared a 29w led, vs a 72w t5 and 250w metal halide.
Based on the growth rate reported, led looked like a hero here.



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Unless I'm reading things wrong, halide had the fastest growth rates, T5 and led did it far far more efficiently. The study only looked at montipora and did not mention coloration either ? Would have loved to have seen a wide range of corals over a year rather than 2 months. Would be interesting also to see this done with multiple LED brands, halide bulbs and T5. Study's like this are unfortunately very narrow and don't come close to hundreds of thousands of hobbyists tanks. Still always good to see these studies, with enough of them we will see a complete picture.

 

[dz6t]

On the end of the paper, the three graph show the average growth rate for MH, LED and t5 are similar.
They match the PAR value for the three types of light sources instead of wattage.
It shows MH is almost 9 times less efficient in this study.


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[dz6t]

This is just a single study, but it was done in control laboratory conditions on real coral growth rate.
From my own experience for my coral farm, when PAR and coverage is similar, growth rate for acropora and montipora are similar. Acropoea is what I grow the most. I retired the last metal halide two month ago after 14 years of using them.


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[jestronix]

That's some serious inefficiency ! But I'm in so much denial with my halide, there's now way I'm ripping it off the tank what ever it's doing it seems to be up to some voodooo cause I'm seeing colours and lots of encrusting. I just know on my tank the XM 10k 250 would demolish my Ai Prime in theory they are same par ? I'm in denial

I visited my local hydro shop the other week and well...... some should break the news to them that led lights have been invented, cause they use nothing but halide and sell 90% halide. Why haven't they moved to led ?

 

[dz6t]

It took me 5 years to eliminate halide due the large amount of investment on them. I still have halide bulbs that can last me another 10 years. If you check out those large in door hydro farms around the world, they are doing led only.


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[dz6t]

No, your AI prime does not put out the same par as your halide in a large tank. The coverage of prime is small. Also you can see in the paper they used led strips populated with hundreds of low power led chips. They are more efficient than high power led chips used in many current fixtures. They can be twice as efficient sometimes.


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[PitViper]

I kept my LED strips on my FOWLR but on my display and frag tank I just made the switch back to halides from AI SOLs. I cant quite put my finger on it but there was something missing with the LEDs. I liked the color adjustability but my corals and their colors sure do love some halides.

So for the MHs. Do they show the coloring that you would expect? Like say with the Kessil a160 tuna blue... can be adjusted to show more coloring of corals. Will the halides do the same as the kessil?


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[Bpb]

So for the MHs. Do they show the coloring that you would expect? Like say with the Kessil a160 tuna blue... can be adjusted to show more coloring of corals. Will the halides do the same as the kessil?


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The world of metal halides is different. If you wanted a blue period to show off fluorescence you use actinic t5ho or vho tubes, or just use a 20k halide bulb and it will look about as blue as most people run their Kessils anyway. No. You obviously done adjust the voltage through the day of a bulb in hopes to modify the color temp....not if you care about its longevity anyway. Besides. Since when was frequent adjusting of an led unit to suit you color tastes by the way ever a good idea. The most successful people with LEDs have their setting and they leave it alone


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[Pslreefer]

Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

Here was my 150 tall using mars aqua led exclusively in 2016.

I tried them on 2 180's and just couldn't replicate my success with again. I figured it was due to the extra depth of a tall tank. Idk.

I now use T5/led.

 

[parrthed]

I'm currently using 2x250 14k Phoenix in lumenbrights with 2x 4ft XHO blue strips I
On my sps 80. On my lps tank I'm running Kessil, I have a 60 cube I have a radion with SPS. With the additional color leds it's way better then the old SOLs. I still like the MH for sps but the newer leds seem to grow them five as well.

My MH tank doesn't have the constant neon color I can get out of my Kessil with my lps, but in reality the two tanks are set up exclusively for their respective corals. Lower light and lower flow for LPS and high light and crazy flow for the sps, its bare bottom and only sps.

 

[jestronix]

No, your AI prime does not put out the same par as your halide in a large tank. The coverage of prime is small. Also you can see in the paper they used led strips populated with hundreds of low power led chips. They are more efficient than high power led chips used in many current fixtures. They can be twice as efficient sometimes.


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I always thought the Cree XPG v2 was pretty efficient. These low wattage cheap by the dozen Chinese leds are ahead of Cree ? Ai and radions are a waste of money? I would have thought with all their special lenses and top shelf led chips would be way ahead ? If not we are all being taken for a ride. Now I feel like getting one of these low wattage super lights

 

[jestronix]

It took me 5 years to eliminate halide due the large amount of investment on them. I still have halide bulbs that can last me another 10 years. If you check out those large in door hydro farms around the world, they are doing led only.


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Looks like it's all for micro greens from what I am seeing local shops are selling lights for those that want to hide the hooch plants indoors , looks like LED still can't grow hooch like halide / hps