So for the MHs. Do they show the coloring that you would expect? Like say with the Kessil a160 tuna blue... can be adjusted to show more coloring of corals. Will the halides do the same as the kessil?
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Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
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So for the MHs. Do they show the coloring that you would expect? Like say with the Kessil a160 tuna blue... can be adjusted to show more coloring of corals. Will the halides do the same as the kessil?
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Bpb
New member
The world of metal halides is different. If you wanted a blue period to show off fluorescence you use actinic t5ho or vho tubes, or just use a 20k halide bulb and it will look about as blue as most people run their Kessils anyway. No. You obviously done adjust the voltage through the day of a bulb in hopes to modify the color temp....not if you care about its longevity anyway. Besides. Since when was frequent adjusting of an led unit to suit you color tastes by the way ever a good idea. The most successful people with LEDs have their setting and they leave it alone
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Pslreefer
New member
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
Here was my 150 tall using mars aqua led exclusively in 2016.
I tried them on 2 180's and just couldn't replicate my success with again. I figured it was due to the extra depth of a tall tank. Idk.
I now use T5/led.
Here was my 150 tall using mars aqua led exclusively in 2016.
I tried them on 2 180's and just couldn't replicate my success with again. I figured it was due to the extra depth of a tall tank. Idk.
I now use T5/led.
parrthed
New member
I'm currently using 2x250 14k Phoenix in lumenbrights with 2x 4ft XHO blue strips I
On my sps 80. On my lps tank I'm running Kessil, I have a 60 cube I have a radion with SPS. With the additional color leds it's way better then the old SOLs. I still like the MH for sps but the newer leds seem to grow them five as well.
My MH tank doesn't have the constant neon color I can get out of my Kessil with my lps, but in reality the two tanks are set up exclusively for their respective corals. Lower light and lower flow for LPS and high light and crazy flow for the sps, its bare bottom and only sps.
On my sps 80. On my lps tank I'm running Kessil, I have a 60 cube I have a radion with SPS. With the additional color leds it's way better then the old SOLs. I still like the MH for sps but the newer leds seem to grow them five as well.
My MH tank doesn't have the constant neon color I can get out of my Kessil with my lps, but in reality the two tanks are set up exclusively for their respective corals. Lower light and lower flow for LPS and high light and crazy flow for the sps, its bare bottom and only sps.
I always thought the Cree XPG v2 was pretty efficient. These low wattage cheap by the dozen Chinese leds are ahead of Cree ? Ai and radions are a waste of money? I would have thought with all their special lenses and top shelf led chips would be way ahead ? If not we are all being taken for a ride. Now I feel like getting one of these low wattage super lights
Looks like it's all for micro greens
from what I am seeing local shops are selling lights for those that want to hide the hooch plants indoors , looks like LED still can't grow hooch like halide / hps
dz6t
New member
Low power led chips put out more light per watt than high power chips, it has nothing to do with brands.
The high cost of some led fixtures are due to low production volume and higher profit margin. The cost of led chips themselves has little to do with the cost of a fixture.
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dz6t
New member
Looks like it's all for micro greens
Led has been proven for growing medical plants, and good for people who want to hide them. Metal halide in a tent is a disaster waiting to happen.
Led for horticulture is a proven technology, metal halide is long gone for horticulture outside of US.
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Pslreefer
New member
I spent a lot of time in Eastern Europe last year while adopting two kids. Metal Halide is still all over the place in every mall, store, shop and everywhere that they were a few decades ago in the US... they have no money to replace fixtures, no environmental codes, cheap power and absolutely no issues with just throwing tubes or bulbs in the trash on a mass scale. Don't underestimate dogma in places outside the US that do not have money to retrofit.
I think that I posted a few pages back about a very large medical weed place that I appraised recently. It, and all of the comps that I talked to, use MH and MV to enhance the sunlight. None will use T5s when real money is on the line... and LED is a joke to them. They do not care how much electricity costs (they almost print money) and the heat from a 5500k bulb is really nice for a tropical plant.
I think that I posted a few pages back about a very large medical weed place that I appraised recently. It, and all of the comps that I talked to, use MH and MV to enhance the sunlight. None will use T5s when real money is on the line... and LED is a joke to them. They do not care how much electricity costs (they almost print money) and the heat from a 5500k bulb is really nice for a tropical plant.
Something I have noticed in most LED setups is they are under powered and overrated. I've seen 2000w lights that only pull 550w. They're are a few company's that list actual wattage. But, then you have to take efficiency into account. The same LED light with a 80% eff driver will only put out 83% of the light a 96% efficiency driver will.
Performance is the only thing that matters to them. The send out hundreds of thousands of dollars in product all of the time. Be honest... if you had many hundreds of thousands of dollars of sales every month dependent on your choice in lighting, would you use MH/MV or LED? There is only one answer here... especially when you consider an electric bill at 2-3% of the sales dollars... no brainer.
This is really no different from reef keepers who are only interested in pure performance... the vast majority of these think that LED are a joke too. Plants are kinda like corals, except they can grow seedlings into plants whereas most reefers rarely see full tanks of colonies. If the growth is 30-40% more with MH, and it compounds, then who does not want more product to trade or sell? 30-40% more of compounding interest adds up over a few periods.
Of course there are spectrum issues. The only way to cut down the wattage is to cut spectrum.
They grew hippie lettuce for sale. That is all. All of them have a few orchids, tomatoes and other houseplants lying around, but The Chronic was all that I was interested in since it was my assignment.
This is really no different from reef keepers who are only interested in pure performance... the vast majority of these think that LED are a joke too. Plants are kinda like corals, except they can grow seedlings into plants whereas most reefers rarely see full tanks of colonies. If the growth is 30-40% more with MH, and it compounds, then who does not want more product to trade or sell? 30-40% more of compounding interest adds up over a few periods.
Of course there are spectrum issues. The only way to cut down the wattage is to cut spectrum.
They grew hippie lettuce for sale. That is all. All of them have a few orchids, tomatoes and other houseplants lying around, but The Chronic was all that I was interested in since it was my assignment.
Tripod1404
Active member
To be clear which eastern European country we are talking about here? Russia? Ukraine? Because my parents are from Bosnia and I have been Bosnia, to almost all former Yugoslavian nations, Greece, Bulgaria, Turkey and Romania. I dont think non of those nations are big MH users. What makes you think a nation that doesnt have money for bulbs or fixtures have money to pay for much more expensive electricity (electricity is not cheap in any of these nations, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing, prices in US is cheaper than almost every country there).
cents per KW/h
US; 8 to 17 (except Hawaii)
Serbia; 7.9
Croatia;17.5
Turkey; 11.2
Greece; 24
Bulgaria; 13.4
Romania; 18.4
Hungary; 23
Non of them have major fossil fuel sources so basically electricity they generate is produced by imported coal or natural gas. Plus it is very easy to get funds from European union for infrastructure development projects that improve overall energy efficiency and/or environmental friendliness.
For Russia and other former soviet nations that have cheap nuclear energy, huge fossil fuel deposits, and a large stockpile of MH bulbs from some factory that produced them for 40 years, maybe? but that is a very small fraction of entire Eastern Europe population and is not a market to start with since they are going through the bulbs they already produced over the years.
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We were in Bulgaria. These cities lack curbs, sidewalks and other things that we call basic in the US. I have no idea how somebody in a wheelchair would get around. I would be shocked if they could afford new fixtures in the next two decades in some of the medium-sized towns that we were in. The building occupied by the Ministry of Justice was an old soviet building from 1968 and I would say that it probably had not even had a coat of paint or any kind of maintenance in the last thirty years with granite stairs missing chunks, trim gone, wood rotting.
It is one thing to keep on budgeting what is in the budget. It is yet another to find capital-funding for improvements.
On the other hand, Sofia was a wonderful and modern city... and the rest of the country was totally different even five miles from the city center.
The streetlights had the hammer and sickle stamped into them like a lot of the infrastructure from the 1950s until the 1980s. Of course, Bulgaria was an old Soviet Bloc nation.
Your chart has electricity around 9 cents at night, which is not awful for them. ...gonna be hard to try and replace lights when so much more is needed first. Not all of these countries are in the EU... and some are only partially in.
It is one thing to keep on budgeting what is in the budget. It is yet another to find capital-funding for improvements.
On the other hand, Sofia was a wonderful and modern city... and the rest of the country was totally different even five miles from the city center.
The streetlights had the hammer and sickle stamped into them like a lot of the infrastructure from the 1950s until the 1980s. Of course, Bulgaria was an old Soviet Bloc nation.
Your chart has electricity around 9 cents at night, which is not awful for them. ...gonna be hard to try and replace lights when so much more is needed first. Not all of these countries are in the EU... and some are only partially in.
oreo57
Well-known member
https://www.nema.org/news/Pages/HID-Lamp-Indexes-Close-out-2015-Down-From-2014.aspx
People are slow to change, even regardless of economics.. That is just psychology..
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171221005630/en/LEDs-Billion-Tons-Carbon-Dioxide-Sky-2017
Tic tok tik tok...
https://globenewswire.com/news-rele...3-5bn-by-2024-Global-Market-Insights-Inc.html
https://www.financialexpress.com/ec...k-street-lights-with-leds-in-gurugram/890233/
Bulgaria vs India.. hmmm..
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alton
Well-known member
It is amazing this thread is still going. But oh well as I said a year ago if you think when you switch from MH to led your electric bill will go down a bunch, keep wishing. Our AC, clothes dryer, washer, stove/ oven, along with water heater uses so much more. The difference for me was when I ran my MH in the summer I would cut down on the length of time versus my LED's today so not to build up the heat in my home. I turned them up in the winter to heat my home and tank, now I use a heater on my tank and my house heater runs more. The biggest question is why is it so much easier to grow coral with MH than LED? Because MH is idiot proof, buy a Radium lamp (which is not 20K) or a Phoenix 14K (which looks like a Radium) run them for 4 hours a day with supplemental lighting for 10 and you have a coral growing machine. The problem with LED is too much tinkering, with running blues at 80%, and whites at 40%, and UV at 10%. Oh yea and do not forget the reds and greens. At the end of the day most LED users have no idea what spectrum their coral is getting, only that it looks good to their eyes. Build my led when they built leds for aquariums sold lights based on kelvin very similar to T5’s. The best light they built and I have four of them was a mixtures of leds that mimicked the Radium lamps. Your only option was to regulate the amount of PAR your corals needed by using a dimmer.
LEDS are saving energy like no other lighting source can. But for all the savings and cutting down of using fossil fuels for energy, on the weekends we Americans will jump on our Harleys, or get into our sports cars, take our ski boats, jet skis to the water and burn 10 times more fossil fuels than our led savings. What happened to when all we had to do was grow a garden, take kid out and play ball in the backyard for entertainment?
On with your arguments, I will check back in with this thread next year.
LEDS are saving energy like no other lighting source can. But for all the savings and cutting down of using fossil fuels for energy, on the weekends we Americans will jump on our Harleys, or get into our sports cars, take our ski boats, jet skis to the water and burn 10 times more fossil fuels than our led savings. What happened to when all we had to do was grow a garden, take kid out and play ball in the backyard for entertainment?
On with your arguments, I will check back in with this thread next year.
markalot
...
What's amazing about this thread is the desire for proof is never ever answered.
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/155-tank-of-the-month
This was a TOTM using 13 AquaIllumination Sol Blues, which would total aprox. 975 watts (mfg rating is 75 watts per fixture). It looks like the fixtures sold for about $400, so that's $5200 in fixtures. The overall wattage used will be lower than 975 (see snippet below) but I have no idea how to calculate exactly what that would be.
Main Display: 10' x 4' x 3' 900 US-gallon Acrylic Aquarium
AI sol blues and I'm very happy with them. There are 13 over the display tank and 2 over the coral QT trays. The intensities have been set at 40% white and 85% blue from the beginning. Each time I've tried to increase intensities my coral suffer, so I've stopped trying. I believe the difficulties many have had with LEDs are due to excessive intensities, especially with the latest more powerful fixtures.
There's nothing new there. Obviously you can grow acros under LED, and some acros do better than others. Suffice to say I think he's got the spread down. This was mentioned way way earlier in the thread, and like before will be quickly ignored by those not wanting to hear it.
The colors of many of the acros have that LED look. This is where some people think we are making things up. I don't blame them one bit, I think those who prefer tube amps are crazy as well, but I don't argue with them because maybe I just can't hear it. :lmao:
For those with Halide experience, how many lamps and what total wattage would be needed to light that tank?
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/155-tank-of-the-month
This was a TOTM using 13 AquaIllumination Sol Blues, which would total aprox. 975 watts (mfg rating is 75 watts per fixture). It looks like the fixtures sold for about $400, so that's $5200 in fixtures. The overall wattage used will be lower than 975 (see snippet below) but I have no idea how to calculate exactly what that would be.
Main Display: 10' x 4' x 3' 900 US-gallon Acrylic Aquarium
AI sol blues and I'm very happy with them. There are 13 over the display tank and 2 over the coral QT trays. The intensities have been set at 40% white and 85% blue from the beginning. Each time I've tried to increase intensities my coral suffer, so I've stopped trying. I believe the difficulties many have had with LEDs are due to excessive intensities, especially with the latest more powerful fixtures.
There's nothing new there. Obviously you can grow acros under LED, and some acros do better than others. Suffice to say I think he's got the spread down. This was mentioned way way earlier in the thread, and like before will be quickly ignored by those not wanting to hear it.
The colors of many of the acros have that LED look. This is where some people think we are making things up. I don't blame them one bit, I think those who prefer tube amps are crazy as well, but I don't argue with them because maybe I just can't hear it. :lmao:
For those with Halide experience, how many lamps and what total wattage would be needed to light that tank?
Tripod1404
Active member
So if you have MH bulbs, you dont do those in weekends?
A reduction is a reduction, doenst matter how much CO2 other parts of your life puts up. 10 times more CO2 than LEDs plus CO2 from LEDs is still better than 10 times more CO2 than LEDs plus CO2 from MH. If energy residential, industrial and outdoor application switches to LEDs, saving become large, like the data [MENTION=296038]oreo57[/MENTION] showed.
Tripod1404
Active member
It has been years since I used MHs. But Imo one 150W bulb for every 2 feet of tank is enough(so for a 6 feet tank 3 bulbs). But this is kinda tank dependent, if your tank is too deep, or too wide, or if you want to have SPS corals all the way to the bottom, you might want 250Ws.
I use to have two 150Ws at the sides and one 250W in the center for a 6ft tank.
Things might have changed though.
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