Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[deepseadan]

Earlier in the thread there was cost issue raised with initial cost of LEDs. While there are alot of companies out there and DIY's I's like to point out an experience I'e been having with my Radions. I have 6 running for the past 5 month and within that time 3 have had to be replaced and my concerns over reliability over the long haul of these fixture has me mildly anxious. The Ecotech team has been wonderful at handling my issues and have stated that they would honor my fixtures even past the warranty if needed. At this point however I wish I had gone with a halide set up because I do think growth with them would be better. I like the software aspect of LEDs, being able to ramp up and play around with different color temperatures is nice and also not having my office turn into sauna is great too but at the end of the day I'm willing to sweat and use timers for the better growth. I may end up using the radions as supplemental lighting to the halides but now the trick is getting my wife to go along with that idea. just my two cents

-nik

I also had leds go out on my ai sols. My first try at leds were the Ecoxotic panoramas, and I purchased 11 of at $100 a piece. After a year, all but two had leds that were either very dim or out completely. Ecoxotic was good enough to replace them all with the panorama pros, and not one single problem yet. Of course they only got a few months of usage before I bought the sols. One nice thing I have say is that Ecoxotic did give me the option to go solid white or blue strips. The blues make great night viewing when my halides are off.

 

[bigfoot610]

I have set up many tanks when having to put in corals right away if your in a FISHLESS system it is not that big of a deal have done it 5-6 times and never lost a coral its prety easy to control with the right additives and diligence and about 20 bucks worth of cycle bacteria addititve...... u add fish tho ur in trouble cute lil ammonia generators

 

[advancebc29]

here we go again.....every person who switched to LEDs and didnt even think about the MAJOR spectrum change they were hitting their tank with got what they deserved. Just like with anything else. If you make a major change expect a major change.

Issue with LEDs is plain and simple. SPECTRUM. If you do it right and keep the spectrum close to what you had before you will not have an issue. This can be done easily with DIY tech and has been happening for a while now. The unit I built over 2 years ago now still surpasses the store bought units in spectrum that are rolling out right now.

You can generate the same crappy results by keeping your current lighting tech and radically changing out the spectrum.

 

[sirreal63]

You can generate the same crappy results by keeping your current lighting tech and radically changing out the spectrum.

Pics of your tank would add some credibility to your statements. While I tend to agree on some points just saying your DIY fixture is better has no meaning unless backed up by pics showing something spectacular.

 

[advancebc29]

Pics of your tank would add some credibility to your statements. While I tend to agree on some points just saying your DIY fixture is better has no meaning unless backed up by pics showing something spectacular.

I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. Simple science and logic is all that I am using in my statements.

At the end of the day if you make a major change expect a major change either good or bad. People make these radical changes in light resulting is a major change in spectrum which is THE KEY PLAYER to keeping corals both alive, thriving, colored up, whatever other description you want to use then complain of the results and blame it on a specific technology. The only person to blame is the tank owner for not realizing what they were doing.

We can look at this another way. Cars....
I had this awesome car with 15 airbags and an awesome proven safety record by the NHTSA. I sold it and bought another car, the guy selling it to me said it was super safe but turned out it had no air bags and exploded in a 5MPH impact. I didnt do any research of my own got into an accident and lost both legs and arms and the rest of my body is burnt. All my fault for buying something that I knew absolutely nothing about nor cared to look into. I still had a car but it was missing a lot of airbags and safety features.

Light spectrum is light spectrum. If it was 420nm under one light tech it is still 420nm under another.

rant done

 

[sirreal63]

You are right, you have nothing to prove to me, but you have been touting for many months that you have had this all figured out for a couple of years, and other people have not, so I would expect in those two years your tank must look pretty good. It is easy for you to sit behind the computer and ridicule others for not doing their research, and claim superiority, but if you are unwilling to show what your tank looks like then you have zero credibility and your statements cannot be backed up.

Please understand, I agree that spectrum is key, but I take offense at you ridiculing others and then not showing the fruits of your labor.

 

[rtparty]

I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. Simple science and logic is all that I am using in my statements.

At the end of the day if you make a major change expect a major change either good or bad. People make these radical changes in light resulting is a major change in spectrum which is THE KEY PLAYER to keeping corals both alive, thriving, colored up, whatever other description you want to use then complain of the results and blame it on a specific technology. The only person to blame is the tank owner for not realizing what they were doing.

We can look at this another way. Cars....
I had this awesome car with 15 airbags and an awesome proven safety record by the NHTSA. I sold it and bought another car, the guy selling it to me said it was super safe but turned out it had no air bags and exploded in a 5MPH impact. I didnt do any research of my own got into an accident and lost both legs and arms and the rest of my body is burnt. All my fault for buying something that I knew absolutely nothing about nor cared to look into. I still had a car but it was missing a lot of airbags and safety features.

Light spectrum is light spectrum. If it was 420nm under one light tech it is still 420nm under another.

rant done

I'm not sure even pictures would add anything after that car analogy.

Logic takes a back seat in this hobby. A lot of things I've done in this hobby seemed logical but didn't pan out.

Also, science can change quite a bit in this hobby. The actual science may not change but the opinions do.

I would say water quality and flow are just as, if not, more important than lighting. Name me a single coral that will live in zero flow. Yet, we have a ton of corals that will live with no light.

Spectrum isn't the answer for everything with LEDs. Just a component.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Michigan Mike]

Does anyone else not like how people are saying "light is light" and how apparently its all the same between the different light sources? I agree MH,T5 and LEDs produce light but its not the same, sunlight is sunlight. Artificial light is not created equal and its misleading saying its all the same.
I could be off base here but it seems there are too many variables in man made lighting to say "light is light" in the context it is being used. With led spectrum being extremely narrow it makes it harder to say this spectrum is equal to another light source.

 

[advancebc29]

You are right, you have nothing to prove to me, but you have been touting for many months that you have had this all figured out for a couple of years, and other people have not, so I would expect in those two years your tank must look pretty good. It is easy for you to sit behind the computer and ridicule others for not doing their research, and claim superiority, but if you are unwilling to show what your tank looks like then you have zero credibility and your statements cannot be backed up.

Please understand, I agree that spectrum is key, but I take offense at you ridiculing others and then not showing the fruits of your labor.

not claiming superiority. So you agree that spectrum is key yet you dont hold people accountable for removing over 50% or more of spectrum from their tanks and call it a failure when it goes bad.

I want you to go out to your car and remove all your airbags. then go onto a car forum and create a post like these LED post saying how your car is now terrible in a an accident. You will get laughed off the forum. Still the same car but you removed the major safety features.
Yet some how it is OK here and we support people for this.

All I want is for people to say "I made a major change in spectrum in my tank, this is why I may be having a problem" not blindly say something is a complete failure without giving ANY thought.

To be honest I LOVE T5 lights yet I run LEDs because my tank is smaller and T5 bulbs are not that small is the best color combos. I just want people to understand what is going on when they make these changes.

 

[advancebc29]

Does anyone else not like how people are saying "light is light" and how apparently its all the same between the different light sources? I agree MH,T5 and LEDs produce light but its not the same, sunlight is sunlight. Artificial light is not created equal and its misleading saying its all the same.

umm yeah.... spectrum is spectrum it is all the same. what spectrum is put out and at what intensity is the difference between lights.

 

[jerpa]

I have to agree that light is light. A photon is a photon no matter how it was generated. The wavelength, measured in nanometers, and it's intensity at those given wavelengths are all that matters. Putting it into practice is where problems arise.

 

[rainmkr07]

I switched from LEDs to MH. I have a 3'x3' 150g Marineland DD SPS tank. I ran 2 ecotech radions for 9 months, then I switched to a single 400w MH in a lumenbright reflector. I've had the MH running for 1 month. In that 1 month, I've seen better coloration and growth than in the 9 months under the radions.

 

[aandfsoccr04]

not claiming superiority. So you agree that spectrum is key yet you dont hold people accountable for removing over 50% or more of spectrum from their tanks and call it a failure when it goes bad.

I want you to go out to your car and remove all your airbags. then go onto a car forum and create a post like these LED post saying how your car is now terrible in a an accident. You will get laughed off the forum. Still the same car but you removed the major safety features.
Yet some how it is OK here and we support people for this.

All I want is for people to say "I made a major change in spectrum in my tank, this is why I may be having a problem" not blindly say something is a complete failure without giving ANY thought.

To be honest I LOVE T5 lights yet I run LEDs because my tank is smaller and T5 bulbs are not that small is the best color combos. I just want people to understand what is going on when they make these changes.

You really do talk a big game about this LED stuff. I'd love to see a picture of your tank to back up what is coming out of your mouth. Thanks in advance!
~an anxious reader

 

[Drae]

umm yeah.... spectrum is spectrum it is all the same. what spectrum is put out and at what intensity is the difference between lights.

So a 10k t5 at 54 watts is the same as a 10k power compact of the same wattage? I don't think so. What makes you think spectrum and watts are everything that makes a difference in lighting. What about lumens and par? Bulb diameter? Running temp? Brands and reflectors? Etc... Lighting is so much more complicated IMHO. Just my 2 pennies.

 

[jerpa]

Light generation is very complex. Light itself however is spectrum and intensity, that's it. 10K as we use it isnt a spectrum it's an equation we use to evaluate artificial light sources and a pretty poor one at that. True Kelvin temperature is a different animal. Lumens and PAR are merely mathematical numbers based on the intensity of light at different wavelengths. If you know the intensity of the light across the various wavelengths the rest is just a few equations away.

 

[advancebc29]

So a 10k t5 at 54 watts is the same as a 10k power compact of the same wattage? I don't think so. What makes you think spectrum and watts are everything that makes a difference in lighting. What about lumens and par? Bulb diameter? Running temp? Brands and reflectors? Etc... Lighting is so much more complicated IMHO. Just my 2 pennies.

it is complex and people prove it by talking about color temperature versus spectrum and thinking they are the same.

you are absolutely correct the color spectrum given off by a 10k halide vs a 10k compact can be greatly different but the color tempature on the kelvin scale is going to be the same.

I think very few people understand this and think "Hey I just bought a LED fixture that is around 14k. This is going to be so awesome"....a few months later "Why does everything look like crap? God LEDs suck!" Again this can be the case with any lighting tech not just leds

And for other folks. Again I LOVE T5s but they dont fit my tank. I spent a large amount of time years ago trying to match the spectrum as much as possible and have had very good results. I have lots of pictures and video on this very site. but for other reasons I am not going to link to them.

 

[sirreal63]

There is a signature line of a member here which states, never trust the word of someone who will not show you the fruits of their labor.

 

[MedRed]

there is a signature line of a member here which states, never trust the word of someone who will not show you the fruits of their labor.

+1

 

[advancebc29]

There is a signature line of a member here which states, never trust the word of someone who will not show you the fruits of their labor.

yes. exactly. I am full of crap. I know nothing about anything.

Everyone listen up! You can make major changes to your tank and nothing bad will happen. Things can only get better so blindly make major changes without thinking or any research.

Why are you so stuck on the fact of LEDs. I am talking about major spectrum changes that can happen under any lighting tech.

 

[Big E]

It would behoove people to just ignore 10k or any other label on a bulb or an LED fixture. They are just marketing labels/names.

As mentioned more than once it's about the correct specturm & then enough intensity at that spectrum to grow & color corals at their best...........that's assuming water parameters are in line.

For me, everything I have seen and what I expect out of any lighting system, I'm likely to wait for the third generation of the commercial LED fixtures.

I could care less about all that fancy remote control & dimming crap........I should be able to set & forget about my LED unit & it should be running at 100%.