Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
power boat jim
Well-known member
Stop it Bernie, you arent doing yourself or this thread any favors. I dont know if too many people here are really interested in your thoughts on alternative medicine.
Birddogm33
New member
Can't we all just get along.....It is all in what you want or like...They all serve a purpose. For my set up, LED's are fine, but I am not going to bash T5's or MH's they work great as well.. Enjoy our hobby.
Correlation does not equal causation. If a tank goes south while under MH lights, it's not necessarily the lights. There are many variables. It seems to me however that when a tank goes south under LEDs it's automatically ASSUMED to be the lights. Not only is that incongruent, its illogical.
Tell you what, you go ahead and focus on hocus pocus, folk lore, maigc, fairy tales and other methods. I'll continue to put an earnest trust in the tried and true trial and error process that IS the scientific method.
Of course, always being skeptical of findings is HEALTHY in a science minded person as it pushes the discoveries. However blindly believing in unproven anecdotal based systems is about as useful as flipping a coin or asking a three year old.
Tell you what, you go ahead and focus on hocus pocus, folk lore, maigc, fairy tales and other methods. I'll continue to put an earnest trust in the tried and true trial and error process that IS the scientific method.
Of course, always being skeptical of findings is HEALTHY in a science minded person as it pushes the discoveries. However blindly believing in unproven anecdotal based systems is about as useful as flipping a coin or asking a three year old.
I started a "Rub Yourself in Whale Sperm and Chew on Tree Bark" thread but the mods moved it to the lounge.
If you're going to try an experiment with a different type of lighting I'd give it at least 3+ months personally. Realistically probably more like 6+ honestly.
If you don't mind, respond in my whale sperm thread...it's only got like 6 views!
gb530
New member
Nice! I agree with most of what your saying here besides the heat/cost factor of running MH. Maybe not you, but most people who run MH need a chiller and I believe that is the heavier cost of having MH. A 1/2 horse power chiller is like 1200 watts to run, with 2 250w MH bulbs thats, 1,700 watts of electricity. With my kessils I do not need a chiller and combined are a total of 184 watts. Plus the Kessils claim they last up to 40,000 hours!
1 kilowatt (1000 watts) per hour (kWh) is around $.12. Depending on where you live. Total hours spent per month is roughly 330 (11 hr /day running lights). The kessils run 60,720 watts per month, or 60.7 kWh /mo. The MH/Chiller setup is 561 kWh.
x2 Kessil cost: $7.28 (60.70kWh x $.12)
x2 250w MW/Chiller: $67.32 (561kWh x $.12)
Don't even get me started on the cost of replacing a $70 bulb either. It's a fact that LED's save you money over the span of its 40,000 hour life. Most people also supplement MH with t5's, that's an electricity cost that's not factored in above.
References:
www. reef(REMOVE THIS SPACE)builders.com/2012/04/19/kessil-a350-a350w-led/
http://www.anapsid.org/electricitycost.html
Gotta remove the space above for the link, RC kept blocking it
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Where did you hear that?
acesq
Premium Member
Now that's refreshing!! +1000
Notjohnwayne
New member
funny how one sided this argument is here, when truly in most of the cases above you are not even comparing the best LED has to offer. I will simply say (without becoming involved in a debate) I very much disagree with Halides being "better hands down". here's why;
Halides cost more to operate ie energy, bulb replacement. Heck, you probably need to replace the ballasts before leds...
Halides are not as customizable- honestly, nothing can beat LEDS here as each color is singled out
LEDs have more pop- Again, no comparison here. If you run the right LEDS a halide can't "pop" the corals quite the same way. Doesn't mean Halides don,t grow coral- they certainly do
Heat- Halides give off a ton more of this. I understand it doesn't bother anyone and might even help some. Still, it is a disadvantage when comparing the LEDS
Growth/color- there are far too many tanks out there that are best in class running LEDS- most of these guys having switched over from halides. Why is this working for them but not you? Hmm, maybe it isn;t the lighting's fault and/or you don;t have the right spectrum. having a "diy" doesn;t mean you have the right leds or led mixes. To take advantage of LEDs you also have to blend the colors and this takes thought- unfortunately not everyone is doing this.
again, you won;t see me respond again here but there was simply far too much one sided argument here and most of it without a single point being made. Good day
Halides cost more to operate ie energy, bulb replacement. Heck, you probably need to replace the ballasts before leds...
Halides are not as customizable- honestly, nothing can beat LEDS here as each color is singled out
LEDs have more pop- Again, no comparison here. If you run the right LEDS a halide can't "pop" the corals quite the same way. Doesn't mean Halides don,t grow coral- they certainly do
Heat- Halides give off a ton more of this. I understand it doesn't bother anyone and might even help some. Still, it is a disadvantage when comparing the LEDS
Growth/color- there are far too many tanks out there that are best in class running LEDS- most of these guys having switched over from halides. Why is this working for them but not you? Hmm, maybe it isn;t the lighting's fault and/or you don;t have the right spectrum. having a "diy" doesn;t mean you have the right leds or led mixes. To take advantage of LEDs you also have to blend the colors and this takes thought- unfortunately not everyone is doing this.
again, you won;t see me respond again here but there was simply far too much one sided argument here and most of it without a single point being made. Good day
Mikefromaz
New member
Very interesting and spirited conversation. All of this blather about LEDs vs Metal halide. Either way it's a "high class problem". Kind of like arguing which is better, a BMW, or a Mercedes. If your primary mode of transport is walking, it seems kind of pointless.
From your post it sounds like you have never used MH or if you did you did not realize there are lots of choices for bulbs and a very large number of MH users also add supplements to tailor the color to their liking. LED's don't really add more "pop" than VHO SuperActintics.
heritage
Active member
I'm definitely having some issue's with coloring and growth. Red or yellow acan's seem to turn a funky looking brown or orange.
Some acropora look great from the top down but lose a lot of color on the sides and base of the coral that the light is not reaching. Some acros seem to.grow well while others seemed to grow well for a time then just stopped.
I have an old t5ho fixture that I'm thinking of switching back to, just to see how the coral react. I'm pretty sure it will be positive, if so I will try and switch to using a t5 supplement.
Some acropora look great from the top down but lose a lot of color on the sides and base of the coral that the light is not reaching. Some acros seem to.grow well while others seemed to grow well for a time then just stopped.
I have an old t5ho fixture that I'm thinking of switching back to, just to see how the coral react. I'm pretty sure it will be positive, if so I will try and switch to using a t5 supplement.
modder man
Member
I have used both halides and LED's over the years and I can say I would definitely never go back. The heat Halides put off was just a pain, I didn't have the money for a chiller so could hardly ever run the lights without overheating the tank.
Not sure why this debate is still going. It is becoming very clear that T5, MH and LED can grow and display corals well if you have done your homework and chosen well.
Spend 3 min on Google and and you will find all the evidence you can ever want.
Pros
Led saves on your electricity bill....but unless you were running a chiller with your MH the savings are pretty small. It is between a buck or two a month for me on my 100g system.
They are small and easy to run and operate.
You do not need to change bulbs.
The temperature of your tank will, most often, be a little more stable if you did not use a chiller with your MH.
Cons
There are a lot of bad units out there.
Most of the pros are things that corals could not care less about and the only con I can think of is something that could kill your corals. If you are not prepared/willing/able to do your research stick with MH/T5, if you are prepared/willing/able to do your research go led. Not because it is better but because it is the same....and just so convenient.
Spend 3 min on Google and and you will find all the evidence you can ever want.
Pros
Led saves on your electricity bill....but unless you were running a chiller with your MH the savings are pretty small. It is between a buck or two a month for me on my 100g system.
They are small and easy to run and operate.
You do not need to change bulbs.
The temperature of your tank will, most often, be a little more stable if you did not use a chiller with your MH.
Cons
There are a lot of bad units out there.
Most of the pros are things that corals could not care less about and the only con I can think of is something that could kill your corals. If you are not prepared/willing/able to do your research stick with MH/T5, if you are prepared/willing/able to do your research go led. Not because it is better but because it is the same....and just so convenient.
IMO you left out one "Con". That is...
Taking accurate pics of my tank under MH - even with a crap camera - was much easier.
LED lit tanks can be very difficult to take accurate pictures of.
We all want visual proof. Which is reasonable. And for many people and/or with many cameras, taking accurate shots of their LED lit tanks - with accurate color rendition - is challenging. LEDs, with their fool-the-human-eye-but-not-the-camera tightly slotted specra often creates pics that may be - in fact - accurate, but not at all what the eye sees. Some people/cameras seem to be able to get past this. But it's a constant struggle for me and my less than $$$ cameras. So I'm sure I'm in very good company that finds themselves constantly taking pics, but posting with the dubious words, "It looks much better than the pic in person. Honest."
Taking accurate pics of my tank under MH - even with a crap camera - was much easier.
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