Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[d2mini]

BTW, regardless of temp, electricity, color, adjustability, par, etc, I still haven't seen an led unit that creates the same look as mh. And its really starting to bug me. Especially after looking at all my pics of my old cube tank which had mh/t5 first and then led later.

 

[rtparty]

BTW, regardless of temp, electricity, color, adjustability, par, etc, I still haven't seen an led unit that creates the same look as mh. And its really starting to bug me. Especially after looking at all my pics of my old cube tank which had mh/t5 first and then led later.

Eventually most come around. Glad to see you are too.....I kid I kid! Your tank has been gorgeous no matter what!

 

[d2mini]

lol, no it's cool.
I can appreciate the advantages to a nice led like the Radion which is a fantastic fixture, but I also recognize the difference in the look. It can make certain coral look out of this world, but I've always been a fan of a more natural look and there is something missing with led. I've always said that nothing replicates the sun like mh and I still believe that. And it's not just the look but slower/different growth too. It's a game of give and take when it comes to lighting. LED are NOT the holy grail. lol

 

[rtparty]

lol, no it's cool.
I can appreciate the advantages to a nice led like the Radion which is a fantastic fixture, but I also recognize the difference in the look. It can make certain coral look out of this world, but I've always been a fan of a more natural look and there is something missing with led. I've always said that nothing replicates the sun like mh and I still believe that. And it's not just the look but slower/different growth too. It's a game of give and take when it comes to lighting. LED are NOT the holy grail. lol

No matter what system and technology we've tried in this hobby, hybrid systems tend to always be the best. MH/VHO, MH/T5s, T5s/LEDs, or MH/LEDs.

I know the exact look you're talking about with LEDs. I've not seen one LED system, DIY or pre-built, that could replicate a MH properly. They always lack a certain something and for those, that are willing to step back and drop their pride, will admit it at some point. It took me 18 months to do so with one system and then I finally caved after trying a few others. I've seen dozens of local tanks claiming their LEDs are all that and a bag of chips. I walk away saying to myself, "They need to put MH/T5/hybrid over their tank for a year and really compare both."

Of course this is my opinion and many will disagree with me and that's fine. Everyone can state their own opinions in here. I'm always open to new ideas and have adopted new technology many times in my 8 years. Few technological advances have ever furthered the hobby as a whole though. Most are fads that die off and put you back to square one.

 

[saltyair]

I have had both t5's and MH on my system now on my second set of LED's (vertex to Hydra's) I would have agreed that LED's do have the power but not the spectrum needed for some corals and colours. Now with my hydra's the ability to adjust colour and intensity make the tank look fantastic.
After only 4 days I have noticed a change already in some sps and lps (for the better)
still to early to tell - but I don't think I would ever go back to MH again.

Still to early to tell on the hydra's, over all growth and colour - but I had my vertex for over a year and I have some nice growing, colourful sps.

 

[James77]

Not if your pushing 83-84 in the summertime.

I've pushed that and more on my tank in the summer, although that was with a canopy that was on the poor end of design in regards to venting. I am not sure where that magic number of 84 originated from, but I have seen the total opposite in my tank. I have hit 85-86 in the past over a summer, with nightly drops down to 80-81....the coral looked normal, if not happier, in the higher heat. Right now I have my controller kill the halides at 86(though it no longer goes that higher, I have a more efficient return pump). Not saying everyone should run out and crank their heaters to 86 , just that temperature swings are fine so long as the tank is used to it.

 

[FastUno]

I have many species of corals & I am overstocked. When my tank temps reach 84 & over then certain corals just did not look that happy. I have read in the past that in nature that they do experience temp fluctuations, but that is in PRESTINE waters & not in a simulated tank where essential elements vary greatly and from day to day.

For certain corals this is simply an accumulated stress, where as in the wild they may not experience the same stress due to water conditions.


Here is my tank going from MH/T5 to 2 Chinese LED's & it has been exactly 2 weeks so far. You see I have a number of corals & out of all of them only 1 zoa type has perished. It was a light blue type & I guess it was like an Albino going into the desert sun. Puffff, all 3 polyps that I had melted away, but the other 12+ variations of zoas I have are fine.

Oh, & have to admit that I had left my MH bulb on for longer than a year & it was also left in storage and no use for 6+ years before the last use. So it was pretty crappy & needed bad replacement before bringing in the LED's.

I planned these LED fixtures with 2x LET T5's, but looking at it now I may not need them.

 

[FastUno]

Ehhh, that was phone pic, here hopefully better pics. I still cannot capture the true beauty...I just hope it stays this way & maybe even improves

Oh & BTW my first attempt at LED's was that Fluval Sea & it bleached 2x of my corals & others and I was ready to denounce LED's!

 

[albano]

I see that you list your tank as BB... Is that because there is no room for sand?

 

[AcroporAddict]

I used 9 AI Sol Blues over a 300 gallon SPS reef for a year, then changed them out for 6 Radions, then upgraded to a 465 gallon tank and added two more Radions, with Radions over the corals for a year as well.

Now back to 400 watt Radium halides with VHO Super Actinics and I could not be happier with the coral colors.

Here is what I found regarding the AI Sol Blues and the Radions regarding SPS:

The Radions can color up Seratiopora, Stylophora, and Pocillopora coral as well as halides. The problem lies with acropora and milllepora species. They just don't get s colorful as they do under Radiums and VHOs.

Radion Pros and LPS/soft corals: not a better light to be found for these type corals. I have a 100 gallon cube with LPS/soft corals with two Radion Pros over it, and I would not give these lights up for the world.

 

[Fishyoga]

I've read through most of these posts now, and see a lot of comments around "my ______ looks great".
Is this an aesthetic statement, as in the object in question has greater visual appeal?
Or are some statements referring to the actual health of the object in question?
I only have a small 10gal tank right now (had a 20 previously), so I don't really think lighting is much of a concern for me. With some of the awesome tank setups that you guys have show, light penetration is an important issue right?
In this case, is there empirical evidence as to what form of lighting penetrates the water depth better?

 

[Aqualund]

So what is considered the industry standard "best" Metal halide combination? I'm interested to do a side by side with my DIY's and see the difference so many MH users swear by.

I know that the reflectors should be lumenbrites, and then 400w for anything more than 24", but what is the best ballast?

Im thinking of running an iwasaki 6500k, a radium 20k, and a full spectrum diy all on the same filtration but separate tanks, and compare each light for its growth, color, etc. for acropora and millepora.

So yeah what is the best ballast to run these two bulbs?

 

[sirreal63]

I know that the reflectors should be lumenbrites, and then 400w for anything more than 24", but what is the best ballast?

The LB is not a good choice if you want to spread the light out evenly, most of the par is concentrated in a small area in the center. Even raising it up doesnt make it equal to a reflector designed to spread. In most cases 400 watters don't offer enough advantage over 250's to justify the extra heat and electricity. There is no single best setup, each tank has its own needs and choosing the right equipment to meet those needs is sometimes confusing.

Im thinking of running an iwasaki 6500k, a radium 20k, and a full spectrum diy all on the same filtration but separate tanks, and compare each light for its growth, color, etc. for acropora and millepora.

So yeah what is the best ballast to run these two bulbs?

 

[FastUno]

I see that you list your tank as BB... Is that because there is no room for sand?

Haha, it looks more packed than what it really is. I have base rock scattered only enough to hold shelve rocks & the shelve rocks make it look full, while there is humungous real estate between rocks. On top of that & on the back are rocks that corals were bought on..

Bare Bottom is neoprene black.

The Radions can color up Seratiopora, Stylophora, and Pocillopora coral as well as halides. The problem lies with acropora and milllepora species. They just don't get s colorful as they do under Radiums and VHOs.

That is good to know, because just a blanket statement would have left me wondering what the heck are these people talking about. I will ask someone who grows many SPS & acros to see what their experience is with the AI Vegas.

Did your LED's have multi spectrum or just blue & white?

 

[grigsy]

I know that the reflectors should be lumenbrites

I wouldn't agree with that. Those give too much of a concentrated beam of light and not enough spread.

 

[grigsy]

Im thinking of running an iwasaki 6500k, a radium 20k, and a full spectrum diy all on the same filtration but separate tanks, and compare each light for its growth, color, etc. for acropora and millepora.

So yeah what is the best ballast to run these two bulbs?

That will have a huge difference in color. Iwasaki is very yellowish looking. Great for growth though. I ran 250 watt Iwasaki 10 years ago with VHOs. Great growth. It would be a bit more difficult to get those lamps.

Radium - I prefer using M80 HQI ballasts. I have run those for years on PFO and Hamilton M80 HQI ballasts. Both drive 250W Radium well.

 

[meshwheel]

Regarding heat:
Lets not try and compare the temps on a "Wild Reef" to temps in a sealed glass box with animals in it!! That like comparing apples and oranges.
We go no currents rolling in from thousands of miles away I would tell anyone that 76-79 is fine. With lower numbers possibly keeping oxygen levels higher in a fish tank.
Wild reefs go through major bleaching events as well when temps climb high quickly.
My tank runs rock solid so far at 76 and I will keep it there. We will see what happens when summer rolls around.
I have to say my leds are not letting me down yet. I am very happy with them so far.

 

[James77]

Even going back over 10 years to Bornemans "Aquarium Corals", he stated the following:

Recent trends favor maintaining somewhat more natural reef temperatures of 80-84 degrees F.

We are trying to replicate the reef as closely as possible. Yes, lower temperatures keep oxygen levels higher in a tank, but it is not by some drastic amount.

I'll quote greenbean:

While I'm in total agreement with Ron regarding the ideal temp for reef tanks, the "Q10" metabolic model he's using to justify this statement is only roughly valid for some species of corals. Many (Echinopora is one I can think of off the top of my head) maintain temperature independent metabolic rates over their range of acclimatization.


Lots of people justify keeping their temperatures low by citing the difference in dissolved oxygen or respiration as temperature increases. When someone tells you that, it's obvious that they haven't crunched the numbers. The differences are extremely small. The difference in saturation between 76 and 86 is about 7%. Even taking into account the effect on respiration (again, assuming the Q10 model, which is an overestimate in most cases), in the event of an emergency, temps at the lower end grant you a few seconds to a few minutes of extra time before oxygen is limiting- not hours.

To give you an example of the impact temperature has on oxygen, imagine you had a 65 gallon tank that had nothing in it but a single, medium-sized clownfish. If you consider only the direct impact of temperature on dissolved oxygen, that tank can support the clownfish for a bit over a minute and a half longer in the event of a power outage if it was at 78 than at 86. If you also assume that the clownfish follows the Q10 temperature dependence model (which my works suggests isn't the case) then you get about 5 extra minutes to solve the problem before the fish starts suffering from low oxygen. That's unrealisticly low stocking though, and doesn't include respiration from LR or LS. When you include more fish or LR and LS those times would be reduced dramatically.


That line of reasoning is probably the #1 reason people run their tanks cooler than normal, but the presumption is wrong. Neither of these situations is worse than the other. The thermal stress threshold in reef animals is set by acclimatization, not genetics. The rule of thumb is that stress begins at 2-4 degrees above the average maximum seasonal temperature. Whether that seasonal maximum is 78 or 82 is immaterial. The margin of error is still the same. There are absolute genetic limits to what corals can be acclimatized to, but for most corals those aren't hit until temps in the 90s.

All I can say is that I ran my tank for a few years in the summer months with temperatures hitting the 85-86 mark daily and staying there for hours. Not only did I see no signs of distress at all, but everything looked happier than ever....coral fully expanded and fish swimming about normally. I was looking hard for any signs....as I was basically amazed that my tank was past that "84" mark , and the world had not ended..

 

[Fredfish]

There is no single best setup

Say it ain't so, 'cuz, mine is the bestest setup ever!!

 

[FastUno]

Mine would be the best, if I had a maid to do all the maintenance work. It would be a damn good reef then.

I want to be a finger pointing reefer on my next run!


meshwheel, what LED's are you using?