Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[d2mini]

The argument that LEDS can't grow coral is lame, at least in my experience. My tank has only been under LEDS since Jan. My sinularia went from 5in. and is nearly a foot tall. The Duncans have gone from four heads to at least nine. My yellow Goniopora, closed brain, assorted zoos and an AOG Paly are growing and healthy. My lights?....120W. Reefbreeders Photon 24. I have it set to track the sun at approx. 50/50 (wht./blu) with a "noon" pwr of 23% a10in. above my 29gal. with 20gal. fuge. By the way, I don't dislike MH. They definitely kick butt and produce great tanks. I made my choice and it seems to me LEDS are fun and they work. Isn't that the essence of why we are in this hobby to begin with? I think so.

People seem to ignore the fact that when anyone says LED have issues growing coral, that comment is directed at specific SPS corals. That same person will readily tell you that LED grow LPS and Softies just fine, along with some SPS. And when most LED users start listing off coral in their tank that are doing terrific under LED, they are usually listing off LPS and Softies.
And then there is the issue of light not spreading around the SPS, causing baldness underneath and/or odd growth.

 

[Mikefromaz]

People seem to ignore the fact that when anyone says LED have issues growing coral, that comment is directed at specific SPS corals. That same person will readily tell you that LED grow LPS and Softies just fine, along with some SPS. And when most LED users start listing off coral in their tank that are doing terrific under LED, they are usually listing off LPS and Softies.
And then there is the issue of light not spreading around the SPS, causing baldness underneath and/or odd growth.

And your point is ?<grin>

Ive never grown SPS, but Im quite sure I could with my LED setup. Of course if I wanted the true MH experience I would need a chiller, maybe a fan or two, sun glasses to protect passers-by and a way to keep my LPS and softees from frying.

 

[Bpb]

The above post is complete silliness. You can say you're pretty sure you could do something all day long, but until you actually have, the statement holds no weight. I've seen fantastic tanks using all forms of light so I won't say it cannot be done, but it's nonsense to say "yeah I COULD grow those more difficult corals if I WANTED to." It just sounds juvenile.

Especially considering this thread is littered with people who posess TOTM caliber results an talent, who have tried all forms of lighting and have had the best results with MH. Sure it's an opinion, but the ones I would trust are from those who have given everything an honest shot and have truely objective opinions based on their results. Not those who talk about "but but but, they have LEDs at the aquarium expo show!!! This is the wave of the future!!" More interested in results than marketing and being "high tech" like it's some sort of arms race.

 

[d2mini]

And your point is ?<grin>

Ive never grown SPS, but Im quite sure I could with my LED setup.

My point is that the argument you said is "lame", is not.

 

[MedRed]

And your point is ?<grin>

Ive never grown SPS, but Im quite sure I could with my LED setup. Of course if I wanted the true MH experience I would need a chiller, maybe a fan or two, sun glasses to protect passers-by and a way to keep my LPS and softees from frying.

I didn't need a chiller when I ran a 250w + 4xT5's over my 60 gallon. I do now that I'm running 550w of MH. I'll take a chiller any day if it means my coral growth and color will meet my expectations.

 

[Mikefromaz]

I didn't need a chiller when I ran a 250w + 4xT5's over my 60 gallon. I do now that I'm running 550w of MH. I'll take a chiller any day if it means my coral growth and color will meet my expectations.

Sheesh! Did anyone bother to read my post where I said I think MH are perfect fine and grow awesome tanks? I would have thought between that statement and the one about "passing out sun glasses", at least one person might have figured out that I was teasing. Look...... look to the left where you might notice my Reef Central join date? Ive been hooked up with RC for eleven years, and I assure you that the 80gal reef I had for ten of those years wasn't my "first rodeo". As anyone who has been around knows it takes healthy critters, good water parameters, feeding, supplements, compatable species, and lighting to make a reef work. Oh.....almost forgot my LED system is equivalent to a 250 watt MH and YES I have no doubt I could raise SPS. I hope you will excuse me if I dont go buy some just to prove it. Lihhten up, love your reef and live and let live.

 

[MedRed]

Sheesh! Did anyone bother to read my post where I said I think MH are perfect fine and grow awesome tanks? I would have thought between that statement and the one about "passing out sun glasses", at least one person might have figured out that I was teasing. Look...... look to the left where you might notice my Reef Central join date? Ive been hooked up with RC for eleven years, and I assure you that the 80gal reef I had for ten of those years wasn't my "first rodeo". As anyone who has been around knows it takes healthy critters, good water parameters, feeding, supplements, compatable species, and lighting to make a reef work. Oh.....almost forgot my LED system is equivalent to a 250 watt MH and YES I have no doubt I could raise SPS. I hope you will excuse me if I dont go buy some just to prove it. Lihhten up, love your reef and live and let live.

I wasn't saying you were new. I was making a statement regarding newbies.

 

[power boat jim]

Powerboat Jim,
How is the comparison going? Are you still running both??? Any difference in coloration? Still loving my LED's!!! Just sold my Lumen bright fixture! I have a 250 watt metal halide Ice Cap ballast if anyone is interested!!! I have no need for it.
By the way, the huge pet expo they just had....................NOT A ONE (1) MEtal halide there on display!!!!! All LED and some T5!!! Thats it!

No longer running both, it was not showing any of the miracle changes that many have had. It bleached out my blue tenuous and granulosa so I pulled the MH. I pulled it a couple weeks ago and we will see what happens, the millie and dragons didn't get back as much color as I thought they would. Now my back room is cooler too.

 

[meshwheel]

Hi Jim,
Wow! Well then my only conclusion is that you have the AI's dialed in nicely! Bummer to hear you had some bleaching! Is everything coming back ok?

 

[MedRed]

pbj, did you test your par with the LEDs and MH on at the same time?

 

[power boat jim]

Hi Jim,
Wow! Well then my only conclusion is that you have the AI's dialed in nicely! Bummer to hear you had some bleaching! Is everything coming back ok?

The color loss does not look serious and the tips are still bright blue on both corals so Im not too worried.

pbj, did you test your par with the LEDs and MH on at the same time?

No I dont have a par meter. I do believe though it may be nice to have one since the MH did spread out to cover more of the tank then just the center where I had it. The bleaching I did experience was on the margins where the MH and LEDs overlapped all day. I dont think it was the change from LED to MH that bleached the coral and I have had no ill effects from the removal of the MH 2-3 weeks ago. I think it was just a change in the amount of light in some areas.

If I could get this combination to work it would be a good winter set up. I was able to remove 2 heaters with the MH over the tank. For now though I will stick with what has been working very well for me.

 

[FastUno]

d2mini is right guys. LED's are awesome & MH are awesome, but I don't think either can just stand alone for SPECIFIC corals & in particular SPS's. As the SPS colony grows & shades itself from the top, the bottom receives less light. With LED's this becomes A LOT more apparent. I can't speak for all LED's, only the ones I have since I am sure there will be differences.

Since LED's are like a flash light, they beam down photons straight down & they are not as dispersed as MH's or T5's (T5's have the best dispersion as you can just see it when you turn them on).

I have documented 4+ months of having my LED's on & I have many corals in my tank. Many of them are doing well. My biggest SPS is doing super on top, where the LED strikes it conveniently. Underneath it turns white though & there is no escape from that. I am sure T5's will fix this, as the addition of T5's to MH fixes the need for more par radiating around the corals & not just from the top.

Here is my latest videos:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5gHCH3W_ktw?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[MedRed]

The color loss does not look serious and the tips are still bright blue on both corals so Im not too worried.



No I dont have a par meter. I do believe though it may be nice to have one since the MH did spread out to cover more of the tank then just the center where I had it. The bleaching I did experience was on the margins where the MH and LEDs overlapped all day. I dont think it was the change from LED to MH that bleached the coral and I have had no ill effects from the removal of the MH 2-3 weeks ago. I think it was just a change in the amount of light in some areas.

If I could get this combination to work it would be a good winter set up. I was able to remove 2 heaters with the MH over the tank. For now though I will stick with what has been working very well for me.

I think your bleaching was due to too much light, but I guess we'll never know. A LFS didn't realize the timer for one bank of halides wasn't turning off at night and the corals under it were severely bleached after a week. If you execute your experiment again, I'd use a PAR meter to dial in your LEDs and MH.

 

[power boat jim]

I think your bleaching was due to too much light, but I guess we'll never know. A LFS didn't realize the timer for one bank of halides wasn't turning off at night and the corals under it were severely bleached after a week. If you execute your experiment again, I'd use a PAR meter to dial in your LEDs and MH.

If I put the MH back for the cold months I think I have a way to get hold of a PAR meter. Since switching from one source light to another seems to have little effect on the tank, its not out of the question that I may hang the MH for the winter.

 

[Kolognekoral]

As far as I can see, going back to halides is simply throwing in the towel and admitting you don't understand lighting. OK, some of us do find this easier and that is not meant to be negative. Just putting people in the appropriate camps. Both methods work without a doubt. LEDs are more complex, but this complexity offers the aquarist new vistas. Not all fixtures are really suitable for marines. The choice is excruciating! Just screwing in an appropriate bulb is an easy option, expecially for those who do not wish to deepen their knowledge of spectrum and optics. I know little about computers, but I use one daily, as most of us do. Then there are those that live in a virtual world. Different camps.

In a couple of years LEDs will be reduced to plug and play (that actually works), just like everthing else. This coming year will see many innovations, yielded from customer feedback, technical advancements and economy. The more we understand about PAR vs spectrum, the more we realise how limited our knowledge about lighting is/was.

Statistically, about 90% of aquariums sold end up in the cellar in less than a year. Says something about seperating the wheat from the chaff. It is not an easy-peasy or cheap hobby. One should congratulate themselves at having found the appropriate path. Oh, gotta run, my sunset effect is coming on..........

 

[sirreal63]

As far as I can see, going back to halides is simply throwing in the towel and admitting you don't understand lighting.

Perhaps, or perhaps many people understand what works and with all of the other things we don't fully understand, like the Biology, the Chemistry and how biodiversity plays into it, it does make sense that people will eliminate as many variables as possible. Lighting is very important, it makes sense for the masses to eliminate that variable and go with what has a long history of working, predictably and easily.

Though I am in favor of the collective knowledge with LED's to continue to grow, I have neither the time or desire to add on another "experiment" and I am fairly sure I am not alone in this.

For many years it has been said that LED's are figured out and now is the time to switch, yet this thread alone clearly shows that to not be the case for everyone. IMO it will be figured out when there is not a "new and improved must have fixture boasting the perfect spectrum" on the market every six months. Until that happens, I am perfectly content to continue to use what worked 10 years ago and is still unmatched today. Lighting as a variable is fine for some people and silly to others who are trying to eliminate variables.

 

[snowboard1]

+1 to the above post. I tried for years to make LEDs grow my corals and failed. Since going to T5 and now MH I have had exponential growth and coloration. For all the time and $$ I throw at the hobby, it is a no-brainer for me to stick with the MH setup.

 

[meshwheel]

The top end leds "should" in my opinion have built in programs for corals. Example: SPS coral setting. You give the depth in inches and it computes the intensity for you. Then gives you a few programs you can chose from! This I feel would help the beginner or novice greatly.
I know they have programs now, but maybe a bit more refinement would help.....

 

[meshwheel]

You know whats funny. If you look through this entire thread, its always the SAME OLD GUYS bagging on led's. And it is indeed a very SMALL handful of people.
ICE CAP METAL HALIDE 250 WATT BALLAST FOR SALE! Works great! Make offer!!

 

[MedRed]

You know whats funny. If you look through this entire thread, its always the SAME OLD GUYS bagging on led's. And it is indeed a very SMALL handful of people.
ICE CAP METAL HALIDE 250 WATT BALLAST FOR SALE! Works great! Make offer!!

The same old guys like myself are the most vocal, but you see tons of fresh faces making one time comments about switching back. What I find interesting is the core of LED proponents are FAR less likely to post pictures of their own tanks as examples or even have journals of their tank progress.

After seeing Vivid's 800 gallon experiment over time, It's easy to see not only does the MH side have better color, the MH side has far outpaced the LED side in growth. The LED side looks good, but the MH side definitely looks better. That "good" is not ok for me when I know the potential color of corals. I want to look at corals and be wowed by the color, not just be satisfied.