Yes, i think that is true. Over the time you change the bulbs of a MH/T5 fixture for newer, better bulbs with better spectrum or whatever. With a good led fixture you do same (sometimes even with gaining more performance) without changing the whole fixture, so what?
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
This is kind of an update to that video that was posted by MedRed last page, at the start they show the whole tank and later on in the video they say they are the same lights.
I can't see the difference both sides look great I think people are just seeing things depending on what side they are on. (Also take note that in the older video posted by MedRed he said that not all frags started out the same size.)
This video is about four months old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe9r49tbqSw
I can't see the difference both sides look great I think people are just seeing things depending on what side they are on. (Also take note that in the older video posted by MedRed he said that not all frags started out the same size.)
This video is about four months old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe9r49tbqSw
MedRed
Active member
This is my LFS. I see this tank in person. There is a noticeable difference when looking at the two sides in person and not from a camera recording. The growth on the MH side has outpaced the growth on the LED side as well.
d2mini
Premium Member
The point is you'll be upgrading your fixture instead of replacing bulbs. And if just upgrading pucks, that's not cheap either. It's currently $250 to upgrade a single Radion Pro from gen 2 to gen 3. It's not a bash one way or the other. I think it's great that parts can be upgraded. It just another example that shows the "savings" isn't as big as some people think.
fishguy597
Member
It's still cheaper in electric and bulbs if you have to do it every 5 years (which I think is early)
Uncle Salty 05
New member
I love the look of MH, but until they can make a bulb that is good for 50,000 hours I am sticking with LEDs.
LEDs cannot match the penetration nor the color of MH, but in many other ways they are far superior. As the LED technology evolves I believe that MH will one day be obsolete.
LEDs cannot match the penetration nor the color of MH, but in many other ways they are far superior. As the LED technology evolves I believe that MH will one day be obsolete.
Uncle Salty 05
New member
Not when you consider higher A/C bills from the heat generated by MH plus the energy they use themselves.
I recently upgraded my Illumina with 3 multi-color modules, the cost to me was $600 (it is a 5' fixture). The energy I am saving by not going back to MH (which I seriously considered) will pay for the upgrade in no time and I still won't have to worry about bulb replacement for another 9 years or longer.
Stlouphil
Member
I think that is the point of what a lot of people are trying to say. The 9 year figure you quoted is theoretical not practical. Led technology will change and improve. You WILL upgrade your fixture 3 or 4 times during those 9 years negating most of your "savings."
That is probably correct but for a very different reason. You may upgrade in order to get new features, better LEDs etc. That decision will be based on if you want something different than what you have now, not that you NEED to upgrade because the old unit becomes obsolete. The original Radion was doing very well when it came out and nothing has changed in that regards. It is still a very good unit. However, now you have newer models with more power etc. That does not make the old unit any worse than what it was, just that the newer ones are "better". You may not need thew extra power etc. and thus no need to upgrade. With a MH and T5 etc. you will have a change your bulbs regardless as they age very fast (compared to LEDs). and if you don't you will see a difference in your tank where LED lights will give you a constant (more or less) light over the whole lifespan of the unit (may that be 6 or 9 years or even longer). We need to compare apples to apples in a discussion of lifetime cost and potential savings.
Uncle Salty 05
New member
Have you got a crystal ball or something?
You cannot say what I will or will not have to do in the next 9 years.
Hell, I can't even do that.
OK, you love MHs, I am right there with you dude.
But I have other responsibilities in my life besides my tanks, and predicting the future is not one of those responsibilties.
Stlouphil
Member
You're right I don't know you, but I am in the hobby and know people in the hobby.
Make sure you post a review of your current LED lighting in 9 years and let us know how those LEDs are doing. Lol
BTW I run MH and LEDs.
Uncle Salty 05
New member
LOL all you want.
I will still be here in 9 years and will be happy to post pics and disclose any and all upgrades or replacements.
BTW I run both too, but need to replace my MH bulbs - cannot afford to.
20K radiums are not cheap and I have other obligations.
Another way of looking at it...
The light from a LED begins degrading from the moment it is turned on, so if you managed to not replace it in 6 years, it has been getting weaker all along when your corals are getting bigger and may need more light, with the MH you refresh the light output and spectrum every year to year and a half with fresh bulbs. Some people cater to their livestock more than to the utility companies.
Uncle Salty 05
New member
The light degradation of an LED is defined as the time, in which the luminus flix (lm) falls below 50% of the measured origin luminus flux with defined ambient temperature and passage current (L50). Many manufacturers indicate this value also as t50.
In addition, many LED manufacturers indicate ever more frequently a degradation of L70 or L80, which means that with a luminus flux loss of 30% (L70) or 20% (L80) the life span was exceeded.
For an LED if one life span is e.g. indicated by 50.000 hours, for a light degradation by L80, this does not mean for the final consumer that its LED makes after 50.000 hours "žpuff "œand is broken, but that its LED only delivers after 50.000 hours burning duration still 80% original luminus flux. That is a lumen loss of 20%.
Taken from: http://www.ledshift.com/Livespan.html
What do you think the degradation % for MH is after 50,000 hours?
In addition, many LED manufacturers indicate ever more frequently a degradation of L70 or L80, which means that with a luminus flux loss of 30% (L70) or 20% (L80) the life span was exceeded.
For an LED if one life span is e.g. indicated by 50.000 hours, for a light degradation by L80, this does not mean for the final consumer that its LED makes after 50.000 hours "žpuff "œand is broken, but that its LED only delivers after 50.000 hours burning duration still 80% original luminus flux. That is a lumen loss of 20%.
Taken from: http://www.ledshift.com/Livespan.html
What do you think the degradation % for MH is after 50,000 hours?
power boat jim
Well-known member
Most LED fixtures are not run at 100% anyway. You have the ability to turn up the intensity should the output fall off over time. This feature should help the LED reach a 50,000 hr life span with little problem. I for one will see if that works, so far so good after 3 years.
I think this is a very dangerous assumption to make. I think that it is safe to say that the majority of the people on this forum, and most likely all that follows this thread, do care about their livestock to a great extent. So far I have not seen anyone claim that LED kills livestock. Yes, you can burn corals if the intensity is to high or light starve them if it is too low, but that is true about T5 and MH as well. It all comes down to knowledge and doing your homework (research) thus why everyone of us frequent a forum like this.
What do you think the degradation % for MH is after 50,000 hours?
You would never run them 50k hours instead you get fresh light output with every change. Turning up your LED's works as long as the spectrum hasn't also degraded or the other components haven't failed. How many Solaris fixtures are still in operation? They were also touted with amazing life but it didn't materialize. Though I am all for the advancement of the technology, I also tend to look at things with a more skeptical point of view. It is easy to hypothesize long life, spectral integrity and the value but at some point reality comes back into it, hence the reference to the Solaris or a first gen AI, it simply did not measure up to the claims. Even though the tech has increased it still has not really stood the test of time, and with the latest and greatest popping up every year and people "upgrading" it is doubtful that many will keep them long enough to ever know.
Hats off to those who are keeping their fixtures for the long haul, they will be the ones who help make the claims substantial, there just aren't very many of those people.
You would never run them 50k hours instead you get fresh light output with every change. Turning up your LED's works as long as the spectrum hasn't also degraded or the other components haven't failed. How many Solaris fixtures are still in operation? They were also touted with amazing life but it didn't materialize. Though I am all for the advancement of the technology, I also tend to look at things with a more skeptical point of view. It is easy to hypothesize long life, spectral integrity and the value but at some point reality comes back into it, hence the reference to the Solaris or a first gen AI, it simply did not measure up to the claims. Even though the tech has increased it still has not really stood the test of time, and with the latest and greatest popping up every year and people "upgrading" it is doubtful that many will keep them long enough to ever know.
Hats off to those who are keeping their fixtures for the long haul, they will be the ones who help make the claims substantial, there just aren't very many of those people.
Ojonas, you missed the point, it isn't that people don't care about their livestock but rather that energy consumption takes the lead in many cases over any other argument. I am very energy conscious with my tank, I have spent years in lowering energy consumption without sacrificing the health of the corals.
No, I won't.
I'll tell you what I will do. I'll read and research obsessively, post a billion questions about various LEDs. At some point, I'll get sick of asking questions and obsessing, and will actually build an led light that I'll use till it falls apart, blows up, or whatever it is that my leds do at end of life.
It does not matter to me what most people do, I know the advantages of leds work well for the way I do things.
I have to agree with others here that the last video you posted comes out in favour of the Radions. You can't really tell the difference. It seems the guy in the video agrees.
I seem to remember from one of my highschool history courses that people had the same arguments about the horse and buggy vs the car. I can tell you what happened with that one, :deadhorse:
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