Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[MedRed]

I couldnt agree with you more about the benefit of programs which help in custom tailoring lighting by species, depth, etc. It is ironic considering the rancor about "coloring up" corals that LED nor MH do not mimic the natural coloration. For example a lot of deep water critters are bright red. At the depths they live at these animals look black becsuse the complete absence of red spectrum makes them invisible to preditors. We as reefers defer to our egos and try to create what we want to see not necessarily what is correct. The only real concern should be whatever spectrum it takes to support growth. The underwater glowing light show is entirely personal preference and should take a second consideration to whatever spectrum supplies the corals needs.

I don't care what color corals are in their natural habitat. I don't live under the ocean. If I wanted natural coral colors, I'd use solar tubes.

The vibrant colors are part of the reason I switched from FW to reefs. I'm not interested in brown and muted tone corals even if they grow like weeds. There's a reason why most use 14,000K - 20,000K bulbs.

 

[meshwheel]

Mike,
I hear ya! And you can have ANY lighting dialed in nicely and if the water chemistry is not right, you will have DULL corals with NO COLOR!!!!!
I have a 499.00 Reefbreeders Photon 32 and I am getting great colors with it. And that was very affordable compared to alot of fixtures out there.
They are getting better and better. Why? Because ALL THE R&D DOLLARS are going into leds.
I like the Mitras 4 square puck configuration too. Reefbreeders is coming out with one to widen out the spread front to back a little better.
I think maybe a curved shaped fixture a little wider would be best. This would give you a excellent mix or blend as well as more width front to back. Much like a metal halide reflector but even better.
How about a block led(much like a rubixcube game) but rectangular shaped. You can then bend the retangles outer edges at angles??? Maybe up to 30 degrees on the outside blocks....
Just thinking outside the box here. I am probably off base though and someone will remind me here. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE DUMPING LEDS AND GOING BACK TO HALIDES....................:crazy1:

 

[Mikefromaz]

Meshwheel.... I have a RB Photon24. I have eleven different species in my tank now.zoos, palys, a canary yellow goniopora the size of a tennis ball, Duncans, flourescent green brain, a purple mushroom, GSP and a foot high dusty rose colored sinularia. The colors and growth except for the mushroom has been amazing.

 

[Windirmere]

Could you supplement leds with a low watt halide for colour pop? Or would the led units just over power the single pendant?

 

[EllisJuan]

I have owned and run PCs, T5s, MH alone, T5 alone, MH and T5, and LEDs (DIY Cree, Chinese, Sol, Hydras, Hydra 52s). There are things I liked about all of them, and things I didn't like so much. They all can grow coral.

However, there is a reason I am currently running the Hydra 52s. Out of all the different lights/combinations I have run these are my favorite so far.

Next up is either an ATI or Pacific Sun LED/T5 hybrid.

 

[JPMagyar]

4 months with a new tank using ReefBreeder's LEDs and you can say without equivocation that LEDs are the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to coral coloration. How about some updated photos showing frag growth and the "great colors" you are getting?

Mike,

I have a 499.00 Reefbreeders Photon 32 and I am getting great colors with it.

gedsta,
Been in the hobby since I was in my teens. Had freshwater since I was 8 years old I think. I am 47 now......................LOL. I service tanks too for a living. . . .

Hi guys,
I run the Reefbreeders photon fixture and love it! My tank has only been going for 4 months,but I am getting excellent growth and my SPS are coloring up like crazy!
AND.........................I BURN 84 WATTS FOR 4 HOURS A DAY DOING IT!!!!!
The 4 before and after are sunrise and sunset. Try that with metal halides!!!!
I have a Lumenbright pendant(250 watt) 2 bulbs and a Ice Cap ballast for sale. Mine was just a matter of getting water quality where It needed to be. Then the colors started lighting up like crazy!
I honestly think alot of people blame the lights, when it's something else or a combination of other little things........

Mitchell,
Yessir! I will certainly sway with you! My frags are growing well. I have only had some for a few weeks, and others 6 weeks or so. However, they are all growing and spreading quickly. . .

gedsta,
My tank is 36x18x24 acrylic tank. I built the stand and installed a granite counter top all around 3 sides. I have high bar stools that site around the bar.
The bottom of the tank is actually 46 inches tall! Top is about 65 inches tall. I dont like hunching down anymore looking at my tanks! You walk in, it's eye level. You sit down at the bar for a drink, your staring right at it!
So far I love it. Rock and new gravel just add. Water balancing out. Nirates 0.25 and Phosphates 0.16. I need that nopox!!! LOL.
its coming along nicely. I added 3 corals LPS and three fish that I have had for about 5-7 years. Here's a few pics. Kinda plain but getting there. Tunze Wavebox and Vortech MP20 plus 2 returns from down below.
240 watts of ReefBreeders led lights. Love em so far!

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

Because the whole point of the LED vs MH debate is appearances and color.

It has nothing to do with cooling, savings, cost, whatever. It entirely has to do with getting the best possible color, which is determined by a rather small subset of a rather small hobby. Which essentially means, pics or it didn't happen. :bounce1:

But in all seriousness. The crux of the debate really is aesthetics. If those aren't your number 1 priority, or you aren't concerned with getting to to the rather strict standard of a small subset of the hobby, then there isn't much point in the debate to begin with. It's apples to oranges really.

Spoken like someone who has no responsibilities in life other than pleasing himself.

 

[JPMagyar]

Because the whole point of the LED vs MH debate is appearances and color.

It has nothing to do with cooling, savings, cost, whatever. It entirely has to do with getting the best possible color, which is determined by a rather small subset of a rather small hobby. Which essentially means, pics or it didn't happen. :bounce1:

But in all seriousness. The crux of the debate really is aesthetics. If those aren't your number 1 priority, or you aren't concerned with getting to to the rather strict standard of a small subset of the hobby, then there isn't much point in the debate to begin with. It's apples to oranges really.

And that, my friends, says it all :bounce3:

 

[JPMagyar]

Spoken like someone who has no responsibilities in life other than pleasing himself.

I agree with Khemul's statement wholeheartedly does that mean I have no responsibilities?

I have a family of 5 and work weekends so I can be home weekdays to care for my kids when my wife is in the office. I care for 2 elderly parents suffering from Alzheimers. I volunteer at my children's school and at church. I walk my dogs in the woods daily because I worry they don't get enough exercise . . . and I could go on and on . . .

What the heck dude? Why would you say something like that? You have no idea what Khemul's life is like and making a personal attack like that is offensive.

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

I did not mean it as a personal attack.
But to say the cooling and other concerns do not figure into the equation is only true for those with no financial worries.
Like I said earlier, if I were single and wealthy I would have MH on all of my tanks, but due to financial concerns it is not feasible.
If I offended you or Khemul, I do apologize.
I have a tendency to shoot from the hip sometimes and speak before I think it through, plus I haven't had my coffee yet.

 

[Wazzel]

With all the variables in lighting options I do not see how the blanket statement of MH is better than LED can be made. So far I find my hydra52 performs at least as week as the 250watt MH VHO combo I ran on my last tank. I am only a couple of months in on this tank so I have to give it more time to fully see.

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

People with years (not months) of experience with both types of lighting pretty much all agree that MH can't be beat at this stage of the game.
That is not to say that LEDs won't catch up to or even surpass MHs in the near future.

 

[Aquattro]

I did away with my 400w Radiums almost 2 years ago. Switched to 6 AI Sol over my 180. Corals did pretty good. But after a year, I decided I wanted more. Went with T5, and while the color got better ,still not the same. Currently building a new tank and my lighting choice is 2 x 400w Radium again. All is well in the world

 

[d2mini]

I did not mean it as a personal attack.
But to say the cooling and other concerns do not figure into the equation is only true for those with no financial worries.
Like I said earlier, if I were single and wealthy I would have MH on all of my tanks, but due to financial concerns it is not feasible.
If I offended you or Khemul, I do apologize.
I have a tendency to shoot from the hip sometimes and speak before I think it through, plus I haven't had my coffee yet.

AGAIN… everyone here will agree that LED can be great for saving money over the really long term! Especially for those in tiered sectors! No one is denying that. Some are saying the savings isn't as much as you may think or that it takes quite a while to see a return on your investment, but we all still agree. So there is no need to keep defending your decision with financial excuses. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to save money.

But has kehmul states, that's not what this thread is about! Go back to the beginning. It's about obtaining the ultimate color/growth/health of all a coral across the board, regardless of the monetary costs involved.

And I just thought of another example that closes the gap on the financial side of things. If you are getting better growth and color, that means more money from fragging! Woot!

 

[nynick]

People with years (not months) of experience with both types of lighting pretty much all agree that MH can't be beat at this stage of the game.
That is not to say that LEDs won't catch up to or even surpass MHs in the near future.

Most people I know say the opposite and they do have years if not decades of experience.

It is also true IMO that many (if not most) people with very old and large systems have not made the switch but this is not reflective of how good or bad LED is. With that much at risk you are going to be conservative...or at least I would be. In the meanwhile I could redo my little scrubby, newb, mixed reef in under a year so I don't mind being the guinea-pig.

As for making it better than the old MH/T5 combo, there is very little to improve on when it comes to quality of light. All LED does is provide more of it with ease and add a lot of fringe benefits...and, as of now, make it 10.000 times more complicated while giving you hundreds of new and exiting settings that will kill your corals in days.....

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

Most people I know say the opposite and they do have years if not decades of experience.

Who exactly are these people?
There don't seem to be many on this thread.
And BTW I do have decades of experience in the hobby.

NOBODY has decades of experience with LEDs.

 

[Johnseye]

Because the whole point of the LED vs MH debate is appearances and color.

It has nothing to do with cooling, savings, cost, whatever. It entirely has to do with getting the best possible color, which is determined by a rather small subset of a rather small hobby. Which essentially means, pics or it didn't happen. :bounce1:

But in all seriousness. The crux of the debate really is aesthetics. If those aren't your number 1 priority, or you aren't concerned with getting to to the rather strict standard of a small subset of the hobby, then there isn't much point in the debate to begin with. It's apples to oranges really.

The factors as I understand them in aquarium lighting are spectrum and par. With LEDs we can dial into any spectrum we want. Some manufacturers pre-define what spectrum you get. This mimics a MH or T5 bulb. Some manufacturers allow you to custom configure your LEDs in any spectrum you wish. You could have a red tank in the 1,000k spectrum or a blue one in the 25,000k spectrum or any combination in between. Color doesn't seem to be an issue with LEDs. What has been the issue with regards to color is the pre-canned spectrums provided by manufacturers and not enough custom light configurations for testing and determining what is optimal for both coral lighting and growth. For years hobbyists have played with variations of MH and T5 bulb types. Now much more customization of color is available to us through LEDs and that needs to be evaluated.

Another issue is dialing in enough PAR with enough spread for growth. Deeper tanks have less light towards the bottom due to PAR levels. Glass tops reduce the PAR value in the tank. The height of the light above the tank reduces the PAR. This will all restrict growth. If LEDs can put out enough PAR before they reach the point where they put out as much heat as a MH rig, and the color spectrum and spread is dialed in, there will be no need for MH or T5.

There may be other factors I'm not considering but color and PAR are the most important.

 

[Stlouphil]

How about I sum this thread up in a few words.

1) Yes, I switched from LEDs to MH because LEDs did not meet my needs and desires

2) lighting is a very individual thing. Any type that meets the needs of your animal AND meet YOUR needs and desires is good choice. Lol

Now can't we all just get along.

 

[meshwheel]

Church of Satan?

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

"With LEDs we can dial into any spectrum we want."

"Another issue is dialing in enough PAR with enough spread for growth. Deeper tanks have less light towards the bottom due to PAR levels. Glass tops reduce the PAR value in the tank. The height of the light above the tank reduces the PAR. This will all restrict growth. If LEDs can put out enough PAR before they reach the point where they put out as much heat as a MH rig, and the color spectrum and spread is dialed in, there will be no need for MH or T5."

IMO and IME the above statements simply are not true YET.
The bolded IF above is a mighty big one.
I have invested $3300.00 in the best LED fixture I could find after doing extensive research and even with all of the variables at my disposal my LEDs simply cannot match the look and feel of MHs.
My LEDs are 3" above the water (open tank) and my halides were maybe 6-8" off the water.