Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[d2mini]

Krzystof's tank is AMAZING.
I want to see a tank like that, that was lit exclusively with LED from the time the coral were frags. Ain't gonna happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V70KV_dZ9UE

 

[dcmartinpc]

Krzystof's tank makes me sick Although, I think things are finally dialing in with my system. I did the LED thing for a while, with argualbly the best fixture on the market right now. The GHL Mitras. I have mentioned on here before that while it was good, MH/T5 still provided superior results for me.

I am a bit unique in that I have the opposite problem of many reefers and I have noticed it has been shared by several people in this thread. When I ran LEDs, my heaters ran CONSTANTLY! I was running close to 1000w of heat to keep my tank temp up. My main tank is in my basement and running a pair of 400w MH keeps the basement right at the same temp as the rest of the house, my heaters barely run an hour or 2 a day, and my corals are looking great Now its time for them to grow out!

I think LED will eventually dominate the market, but I am going to wait out the trial and error period we are in now... When Ecotech and other manufacturers stop releasing a brand new "upgrade" every year, then it might be time... They are still tweaking it themselves and getting everything figured out. I'll try again when they slow down.

Don

 

[reeefchief]

I tried leds for about 9 months, i never could get it dialed in. I was always trying to find the right settings and i never seen hardly any growth in my sps. Zoas seem to love them no matter how i had the settings. Last week i went to 6x80 t5 on my 125 and i dont think ill ever go back to led only. I might add a strip of royal blues for looks but t5 and mh are tried and true for me

 

[VegasMike]

I don't know what to say. I put a bunch of frags in my tank over the past four weeks and have already seen good growth on many and improving colors on most. I have all LED's.

 

[rtparty]

When Ecotech and other manufacturers stop releasing a brand new "upgrade" every year, then it might be time... They are still tweaking it themselves and getting everything figured out. I'll try again when they slow down.

Don

Unfortunately, as long as people buy into the "upgrades" and marketing BS they will never slow down. It's all a big money game to them. I remember reading about one of the very first LEDs and the guy saying that he could make more money on one LED system than like 5 halide systems. (May have even been 10 halide systems. Some of the older reefers may remember the exact quote.)

 

[power boat jim]

I don't know what to say. I put a bunch of frags in my tank over the past four weeks and have already seen good growth on many and improving colors on most. I have all LED's.

Yep, here too. Dont understand what magic lives in my tank either. I just sold all my Sol blues and bought Radions. I have one MH light over the right side of the tank since I had a big oops with one of the Radions. The MH side looks dull and washed out compared to the Radions. Even my wife noticed.

Cant wait to get My third Radion returned to me. I dont see whats so hard about using them, just set them at 40% and put them somewhere between 14-20k and leave it alone. Im not disputing anyones bad experiences with LEDs but I just have not experienced it here.

 

[dcmartinpc]

I would love to see pics of long term LED tanks. Most everything I see is very purple and green and is very monochromatic.

Don

 

[HaroldT]

I would love to see pics of long term LED tanks. Most everything I see is very purple and green and is very monochromatic.

Don

I agree.

That is what we never see - long term LED tank pictures with comparison pictures from one year to the next.

 

[HaroldT]

The comparison of cost isn't too fair. The cost of led's, even expensive fixtures, is less than the cost of changing bulbs like you should every 6 months.

Also, the changing of color through the day could indeed be shown to be a positive thing, much better than metal halides. When we're talking about certain corals, not all corals are going to be surface dwellers that enjoy non-blue spectrums. It's a fact of the ocean and to pretend it doesn't matter isn't very realistic.

As far as the food analogy, that's all the arguments will ever be, analogies. There's really not been too much concrete research showing led's are that much different than any other light source. The tech is getting better every day. Metal halides and older fixtures, well, I don't believe they're the focus of much new research.

Metal halides and older fixtures are just a dead horse people keep beating when tooting their horn against led's..

lol - what???

6 months for changing our your halide bulbs? That's not really the norm at all.

You should get a year AT LEAST out of a good quality metal halide bulb. Often I change out my halides every 14 - 18 months.

Metal halides in your opinion are "dead horse people" - but in my opinion after using Radions, metal halides are just plain better.

 

[Big E]

Also, the changing of color through the day could indeed be shown to be a positive thing, much better than metal halides

Based on what? There's at least 15+ years of proof that a consistent spectrum that isn't changed at all over 8-10 hours produces great growth and color.

All that spectrum changing is just a toy. You shouldn't even need all that crazy software..........just set 'em and forget em. They are lights for crying out loud, not an X-box.

If these manufacturers of LEDs spent half as much time as they do on research for what the corals need instead of that ridiculous software, they'd be much better off.

 

[Urbs]

Based on what? There's at least 15+ years of proof that a consistent spectrum that isn't changed at all over 8-10 hours produces great growth and color.

All that spectrum changing is just a toy. You shouldn't even need all that crazy software..........just set 'em and forget em. They are lights for crying out loud, not an X-box.

If these manufacturers of LEDs spent half as much time as they do on research for what the corals need instead of that ridiculous software, they'd be much better off.

Haha! Well said my friend!

 

[Mikefromaz]

This entire MH vs LED argument is spurious at best. The animals one can successfuly grow in any marine scenerio depends on the depth they come from and how well their lighting needs are met. Metal Halides have always been the "standard" and justifiably so. In being the first to truly make SPS reefing work they were and are a complete misfit for low light creatures. The best MH users can do is look for dark corners in their tank for low light critters. LEDS on the other hand can and do grow coral every bit as well as MH but suffer from a good understanding of exactly what their ultra adjustable systems need to do as a function of species specific. I believe in the end when LED systems are supplied with software algorythems based on what is reccomended for "X,Y, Z" animals and people take the time to use that info, people will still argue about theirs as being the "best". Ultimatly MH will decline, which is a shame because they do what they do very well.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

Its funny to see you all arguing down points like there's no science involved. THAT is the sign of "panties in a bunch".

When you can even admit that leds work just fine for some people. Ever wonder why they work for others and not yourselves?

That's the real question you should be asking and discussing. But talking down to others who bring up valid point shows you're weak in your arguments.

Let alone after I touch on the right questions, I get told to read the thread its already been discussed. LOL

I would really like to hear how metal halides, that have the same identical spectrum output as an led fixture can possibly have "different light". Oh what's that? You can't prove that because it would go against the entire system of physics and the measurement system as we know it?

As to the comments of me buying some radions? Don't care. Pocket change for one, but secondly I've researched them for MONTHS. And I had pretty good experiences with leds so far. But overall, even if I've got enough money to not care too much about the cost of the radions, doesn't mean I want to waste money on all the various negatives of metal halides.

I've never seen so many uneducated people in one place. Its unfortunate too because there so much information out there to learn from.

 

[Mikefromaz]

Measuring and quantifying light spectrum is a table top everyday lab exercise. I have every reason to believe LEDS can be configured power and frequncy wise to mimic MH. The reverse cannot be said for MH. This statement isn't intended to make MH appear "less than", but it will blow a huge hole in the theory that LEDS aren't as capable as MH. IT IS ON LED MANUFACTURERS to say 0-10ft. "do this", 10-20ft. etc. Then and only then can consumers make fair comparisons as to the validity of LED makers products including comparing them to MH.

 

[dcmartinpc]

Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

My experience has not been spectrum differences but directionality. MH based on their design with big reflectors tend to "Bathe" the tank with light for lack of a better term. This causes coral to be colored from much more angles than with LED. LED is very directional and I have seen many instances once frags grow out of color on the top and brown on the bottom.

Don

 

[d2mini]

just set them at 40% and put them somewhere between 14-20k and leave it alone.

Man, all the conversation about growth, color, etc aside.... just the thought of going back to such a dimly lit tank. I know people get used to it, or if led is the only lighting they've had they don't know any better, but that was one thing I noticed when i first when to LED... how dim the tank looked! Even at 100%. That was one of the reasons I made the switch back.

When I switched back to MH/T5 it looked like someone turned on the lights. Literally. And I let out a long, appreciative "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh...." It was like stepping out into the sun on a beach in the Caribbean after getting on a plane in a snowy NYC.

 

[Mikefromaz]

Here's a concept. How about a simple no nonsense industry based study comparing all forms of aquarium lighting to the sun? Excuse me but isn't the sun the "standard"? Has anyone noticed there are graphs galore pasted all over lighting systems at the LFS or whetever but never by way of comparison to the sun by depth? Those who can afford it become adhoc experts because they have a PAR meter. It is amazing what light systems makers get away with.

 

[d2mini]

I've never seen so many uneducated people in one place. Its unfortunate too because there so much information out there to learn from.

Educated people don't need to insult others to prove a point.

What's unfortunate is you not reading the thread which has a lot of great info.

 

[Big E]

It's not just about matching spectrum which has taken these manufacturers almost 3 years to try and get right.

How many improved models do we need when all they are doing is making minute changes in software or configurations. It's all marketing focused on the fringe stuff.

There are still some spectrum holes, but now things have shifted more to coverage issues & how blatantly they were overstated from day one.

Hot spots on many of these units is still a real concern as well as consistency of spectrum and intensity across the whole area of the aquarium.

I think if you go through my thread from the early blue/white units to today, you'll see how things have evolved to some extent. There is also a ton of links and info and some really good contributions from a wide number of people.

For anyone interested, take the time to really go through it. It focused on coloring Acroporas based on just the lighting variable. There's plenty of helpful hints along the way.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2198810

 

[nynick]

Man, all the conversation about growth, color, etc aside.... just the thought of going back to such a dimly lit tank. I know people get used to it, or if led is the only lighting they've had they don't know any better, but that was one thing I noticed when i first when to LED... how dim the tank looked! Even at 100%. That was one of the reasons I made the switch back.

When I switched back to MH/T5 it looked like someone turned on the lights. Literally. And I let out a long, appreciative "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh...." It was like stepping out into the sun on a beach in the Caribbean after getting on a plane in a snowy NYC.

This is not because it was LED. It is a question of wattage and some producers over extending what it can do.

My first experience with LEDs was the exact opposite.