Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[d2mini]

I don't think comparing a coral under MH with reflectors and T5's is the same as the same coral sitting under a single (even 2 pucks) LED fixture.

I'm sorry but what is this thread about again?
LED vs past lighting technology and those that have switched back.
If we are not comparing an off the shelf LED unit to an off the shelf MH and/or T5 unit, then I guess I'm in the wrong place.

And you are right, it's not the same.
That's what we've been trying to say this whole time.

And per the TOTM article, we don't know how much growth was from previous lighting and what is new.
And he's also running a lot of fixtures, which has been stated a million times now is definitely beneficial but increases start up costs even more.
"The first light system was based on ATI Blue Plus T5 bulbs (80W), mixed with Phillips Aquaviva and KZ Fiji purple T5 bubs (54W) running under a pack of IceCap ballasts, due to the success accomplished by a friend with this kind of mix on his tank. After the first year, and 3 defective ballasts, I changed to a 16 T5 bulb system with only ATI 54W. It consisted of mixed Aquablue, Blue Plus and Purple Plus running under a pack of Phillips ballasts. This system gave me very good results in color and growing, but changing 16 bulbs every 8~10 months in Brazil, a place where you simply can’t find good T5 bulbs at a reasonable value, was a big problem.

All of this led me to change to a LED based lighting system in December 2012"

 

[Scorpius]

I haven't been able to grow anything for very long successfully under my Kessil A360we's. Too many variables in light intensity and spectrum with LED's Seriously considering the Hamilton Cebu sun system.

 

[Wazzel]

I'm sorry but what is this thread about again?
LED vs past lighting technology and those that have switched back.
If we are not comparing an off the shelf LED unit to an off the shelf MH and/or T5 unit, then I guess I'm in the wrong place.

And you are right, it's not the same.
That's what we've been trying to say this whole time.

And per the TOTM article, we don't know how much growth was from previous lighting and what is new.
And he's also running a lot of fixtures, which has been stated a million times now is definitely beneficial but increases start up costs even more.
"The first light system was based on ATI Blue Plus T5 bulbs (80W), mixed with Phillips Aquaviva and KZ Fiji purple T5 bubs (54W) running under a pack of IceCap ballasts, due to the success accomplished by a friend with this kind of mix on his tank. After the first year, and 3 defective ballasts, I changed to a 16 T5 bulb system with only ATI 54W. It consisted of mixed Aquablue, Blue Plus and Purple Plus running under a pack of Phillips ballasts. This system gave me very good results in color and growing, but changing 16 bulbs every 8~10 months in Brazil, a place where you simply can't find good T5 bulbs at a reasonable value, was a big problem.

All of this led me to change to a LED based lighting system in December 2012"

I know of only 1 TOTM that has only run LEDs. It was a 50 cube from mid to late 2014.

 

[Mark]

I don't like to think in absolutes or that anything is black or white. LED's do work. My office tank runs on a Kessil. But I agree with JB NY's comments earlier about halides. Like I said in an earlier post, I ran the same 180 gallon and corals for around a decade and did MH, T5's, and finally LED. When one of the ballast on my LED fixture died, I threw up my old halide fixture as a temporary measure. I got busy with life for a little bit, but when I took notice of the tank again, I realized that this temporary measure changed everything for the better. Putting that old MH fixture back on breathed life into my tank. There's no other way to describe it. Like another person said, I had that 'ah! there it is!' moment. Coral growth and color was astonishing. I had a non-reef friend describe my tank as going from 'sickly looking' to a 'real reef' again.

I want to try LED again, but supplemented with T5's. It frustrates me to see manufacturers pack so few LED's into a little module and tell people it's plenty for a 2'x2' reef space. If I had unlimited funds, I would opt to cover the entire surface with LED and then ditch the narrowing optics. That's the only way. I think you then end up with something along the lines of a T5 spread. Heck, look at how many radions Sanjay is using.

Probably my favorite LED tank out there is Ehsan's(Owner of Triton Reef) . His Lani LED's do not use optics, and his panels cover the entire tank. No harsh shadows or disco. The tank is bathed in light. That's how LED's should be done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECy_RaxxMdo

 

[DavidinGA]

This is already labeled, but even if it was not, you can't deny the difference.
The MH/T5 side shows a tighter growth pattern and better polyp extension/color underneath. This is just one of the previous examples posted in this thread. Same tank, same photographer, etc.

Most would say that the LED side looks great, and it does look pretty dang good.
But you can see how the change in lighting made it a little bit better. This is the kind of thing many of us are talking about. When I mentioned that one of the LED pics that was posted earlier looked really good but could maybe be improved by MH, this is what I mean. It's not a jab, it's a friendly suggestion.

I would love to see this same test done only add a few T5 bulbs to the led setup.

I'm not a fan of led alone getting it done, but if led+t5 can compete with MH that's a win for anyone (especially if you can run no-name leds boxes for cheap).

 

[brad65ford]

Has anyone checked up the pot head growers of the world. I believe they to have switched to LED over high pressure sodium. Wondering if they to are switching back or they are still using LED's.

 

[rgulrich]

Now I'm not saying these companies are supplying one agro producer over another, but there's a pretty vast selection of Metal Halide, Light Emitting Ceramic, Fluorescent, and even a couple of LEDs (not a lot) available for the avid greenhouse grower. Even stumbled across a few LEP (plasma) fixtures. High Pressure Sodium is still used as well.
https://www.sunlightsupply.com/
http://www.dchydro.com/cgi/commerce.cgi?display=home
http://www.virtualsunhydroponics.com/grow-light-kits
Here's a pretty good selection of LED for hydroponics systems:
https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/hydroponic-supplies/
...and even a primer on how LEDs have matured for the hydroponics folks:
http://www.hydroponics-simplified.com/hydroponic-lights.html

A halfway decent sampling from that arena...a bazillion more out there...almost makes me want to play in the dirt for a while, too...
HID/MH still seem pretty dominant, though, at first glance.

 

[JB NY]

Probably my favorite LED tank out there is Ehsan's(Owner of Triton Reef) . His Lani LED's do not use optics, and his panels cover the entire tank. No harsh shadows or disco. The tank is bathed in light. That's how LED's should be done.

I agree Mark, when I saw that I was like, that is what I want to do, why wouldn't everyone do that?! That looks to be the way to do it. Then I looked up the price of those panels and how many I would have to get. oh my!

 

[d2mini]

I would love to see this same test done only add a few T5 bulbs to the led setup.

I'm not a fan of led alone getting it done, but if led+t5 can compete with MH that's a win for anyone (especially if you can run no-name leds boxes for cheap).

Me too, and I would bet my retirement that there would also be improvement.
This is why manufacturers are now moving to hybrid fixtures.
I also know of a very nice tank here in one of our LFS running an LED/MH combo.

I know someone running one of the ATI hybrid fixtures with great results.
Although in that fixture, the T5 are doing the bulk of the work. The led are supplemental.

 

[d2mini]

I agree Mark, when I saw that I was like, that is what I want to do, why wouldn't everyone do that?! That looks to be the way to do it. Then I looked up the price of those panels and how many I would have to get. oh my!

haha, agreed... but like i said earlier, they are the only company i know of moving in the right direction with LED.

 

[Big E]

ATi has something similar to the Lani in the works & I'm sure it won't be cheap.

 

[markalot]

I'm sorry but what is this thread about again?
LED vs past lighting technology and those that have switched back.
If we are not comparing an off the shelf LED unit to an off the shelf MH and/or T5 unit, then I guess I'm in the wrong place.

...

All of this led me to change to a LED based lighting system in December 2012"[/COLOR][/I]

What is this thread about? You're one of those that wants to /end it I think. What you said has been said by most of us here and recognized as true, so I think you're done. The pictures you showed us are exactly what is to be expected when you put a coral under a spotlight. Dark side of the moon.

There's another interesting sub topic that was alluded to in the first post ... corals look like crap. Is it worth discussing how LED's might be made to work, or do you just want to declare the thread over?

I can tell you this. I have one of my smaller Maxspect razors over a 29 gallon tank and the SPS look like crap. I hate trying to dial in LED fixtures. I'm astounded that the TOTM owner is able to get things to look so good. It appears he's solved the coverage AND at least some of the color issues. Is it worth trying to learn from what he did and apply it?

 

[d2mini]

The coral I posted shows the problems inherent with LED. Yes, spotlighting. That was the point. Completely cover your tank in led and you should minimize this problem. One MH pendant will spread the light much better than one typical led fixture. There are newbies here that don't seem to want to go back and read the previous posts. That photos was posted previously. You agree that there are problems with led and the need for improvement but others say current led fixtures work just fine.

I'm astounded that the TOTM owner is able to get things to look so good. It appears he's solved the coverage AND at least some of the color issues. Is it worth trying to learn from what he did and apply it?

The problem is we don't know what was gained from LED and what was from his previous lighting. So i'm not astounded other than that he managed to keep it looking good. But also not astounded because he has a lot of units over the tank.

 

[markalot]

The coral I posted shows the problems inherent with LED. Yes, spotlighting. That was the point. Completely cover your tank in led and you should minimize this problem. One MH pendant will spread the light much better than one typical led fixture. There are newbies here that don't seem to want to go back and read the previous posts. That photos was posted previously. You agree that there are problems with led and the need for improvement but others say current led fixtures work just fine.



The problem is we don't know what was gained from LED and what was from his previous lighting. So i'm not astounded other than that he managed to keep it looking good. But also not astounded because he has a lot of units over the tank.

It was tank of the month in January 2015, he switched to LED in Dec ... let's call it January 2013. That's 2 years under LED.

 

[JPMagyar]

I don't think the issue on this thread is being picky on coral color, it's that many feel anything labeled LED will get picked to death while other photos are not. I personally think many of the LED photos would have gotten complements if they were labeled MH. I am sure people disagree, and that is fine, but that is what I think after reading the majority of the thread. I would like to see the photos examined before the lighting source was disclosed although I suspect the photos would generate less comments that way. Besides many people are not great photographers, nor have decent equipment or the ability to do post modification or tell which photos have been touched up.

I challenge you to find 3 pairs of photos of the same coral over at least 6 months and ask me if the corals are grown under metal halide/T5 or LED. I right here and now promise to pay $100 to you via PayPal if I can't tell the difference. I totally disagree with your premise. I look at LED grown corals and instantly can know the difference. The shape, colors, and growth patterns are different. The photos above are a perfect example. LED grown corals have sharp shifts in growth direction causing that unpleasing and unbalanced growth pattern. This is a hobby and if you like LEDs then use LEDs, but the most discerning Acropora nuts have all spoken and they agree. LEDs do not grow Acropora the same as MH/T5.

 

[jminick2]

I challenge you to find 3 pairs of photos of the same coral over at least 6 months and ask me if the corals are grown under metal halide/T5 or LED. I right here and now promise to pay $100 to you via PayPal if I can't tell the difference. I totally disagree with your premise. I look at LED grown corals and instantly can know the difference. The shape, colors, and growth patterns are different. The photos above are a perfect example. LED grown corals have sharp shifts in growth direction causing that unpleasing and unbalanced growth pattern. This is a hobby and if you like LEDs then use LEDs, but the most discerning Acropora nuts have all spoken and they agree. LEDs do not grow Acropora the same as MH/T5.

I got one for ya. Don't look at my previous posts!

 

[JPMagyar]

I got one for ya. Don't look at my previous posts!

It can't possibly be this picture????? Big skirt and weird growth pattern forming in the bottom left plus a) you don't have a before and after and b) it's green and grey which is the favorite color rendition of LED and absolutely abhorrent. I wouldn't allow that coral in my tank . . . let's try again shall we . . . how about a reminder of what I am striving for and for what all the pro MH posters are striving . . .

Dude, you are so far off it's not even funny.

or this picture ????

Look I am REALLY sorry for being harsh, but you are WAY out of your league if you are pointing to crappy photos of a tank full of frags.

The first time someone posts a series of photos like this and proves it was grown under LEDs I will change to LEDs.

 

[jminick2]

It can't possibly be this picture????? Big skirt and weird growth pattern forming in the bottom left plus a) you don't have a before and after and b) it's green and grey which is the favorite color rendition of LED and absolutely abhorrent. I wouldn't allow that coral in my tank . . . let's try again shall we . . . how about a reminder of what I am striving for and for what all the pro MH posters are striving . . .

Dude, you are so far off it's not even funny.

Jeeze dude. Well no it wasn't going to be that one. But since u r cheating I won't bother playing that game with you. That was only a couple of months after I got it. I thought that'd be a fun little game didn't realize you were going to be insulting and rude. You are like one of those elitist people who think they are better than everyone aren't ya. Hope u feel better.

 

[markalot]

He's posting pictures of the current best SPS tank on the planet that we know about.

2 years under LED according to the article, but I suspect folks will claim most of the growth was under MH or T5. Doesn't matter, either they are right or wrong, I honestly do not know the answer, but I'd like too.

 

[jminick2]

You think you have put one ounce more work into your tank than I have mine ? Just because you run MH???? I can promise you, you have not. We all have to start somewhere dude. Don't knock on my frags I have some really nice looking acros now. Yeah they are frags/mini colonies sorry I don't go out buy huge colonies to start with, I like the gratification of growing them myself. Yea that's right they are under radions but that's what I prefer I have no fight in this discussion I don't disagree MH grow them better but I like the other benefits of LED and my corals ARE growing. I just wanted to play your little game cause I thought it'd be fun. You are a real piece of work. Out of your league ????? Please dude. You have different lights than me WHOOPTY DO!!!!!! that doesn't make you better at anything.