Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[JB NY]

Here would be my example of what I see different from SPS grown under LED. Below are some pictures of corals under Metal halide, from a tank of mine way back from the dark ages of reef keeping when we were forced to use 10K lighting (oh the horror). These are from back in 2004.

Here are just some little frags sitting on plugs in a frag tank of mine from 10 years ago. 10K MH lighting.

To me there is a huge and very apparent difference when comparing SPS grown under MH to LED. So when I see people write, you are just stuck in that old technology, you need to embrace some of the new stuff, it's the way of the future. I feel that I am being sold a bag of goods and told to shut up, give up my money, and stop complaining, look you can do simulated cloud coverage and lighting strikes now.

I am not trying to take away from the hard work that so many of us put in to their tanks, what I am trying to point out is that for all that hard work it seems that the lighting is holding you back. Yes, some of those LED pictures look very nice, but it could be much much better.

 

[Wazzel]

I have not read one single concrete piece of evidence yet in this thread that LED is somehow superior to MH or T5 in maintaining color, growth pattern, and health of SPS corals specifically. The MH and T5 guys have hundreds upon hundreds of concrete pieces of evidence that SPS has better color, growth pattern and overall health under these types of lights. Thats enough for me. Most of the argument has been either this guy has LEDs now but the majority of his coral was actually grown under MH or the spectral graphs seem to be somewhat similar.

I do hope LED gets it right someday. It just dont think they have right now. Progress is good. Im glad we arent all still using VHOs like we did in the old days. But for the hardcore, ultra picky SPS crew, its just not cutting it.

That would be because it is not superior, but approximately equal (depending on the fixture). It is different and has it's own set of pros and cons. Some fixtures do the job well, some ok, and some not at all.

The variation in color between LED, Mh and T-5 should really be no surprise to anyone. With just a bit of experience we should all know that different lighting systems and color temps will bring out different hues in corals. Some times just tank conditions will alter the color under the same lighting. If you are expecting any LED system to make corals look just like a radium lamp, that is an unrealistic expectation.

 

[markalot]

Screw the Radium, I want JB's 10K bulbs now!

 

[Wazzel]

Screw the Radium, I want JB's 10K bulbs now!

10k lamps rocks if you like a white tank. I used 10k XM DE's and VHO actinic on my last MH tank.

 

[gablett]

That would be because it is not superior, but approximately equal (depending on the fixture). It is different and has it's own set of pros and cons. Some fixtures do the job well, some ok, and some not at all.

The variation in color between LED, Mh and T-5 should really be no surprise to anyone. With just a bit of experience we should all know that different lighting systems and color temps will bring out different hues in corals. Some times just tank conditions will alter the color under the same lighting. If you are expecting any LED system to make corals look just like a radium lamp, that is an unrealistic expectation.

I would say even equal to is a stretch. Yes there are some tanks thats look ok with it. But those seem to be the exception, not the rule. It almost seems to be a crap shoot as to what you are going to get.

I do understand that nothing is equal in any tank. There will always be variations. But if I take a coral from my radium lit tank to another radium lit tank, its gonna look pretty close to the same over time. If I take corals from a radium lit tank and move them to leds, Ive never seen the colors improve, or even maintain.

 

[Wazzel]

I would say even equal to is a stretch. Yes there are some tanks thats look ok with it. But those seem to be the exception, not the rule. It almost seems to be a crap shoot as to what you are going to get.

I do understand that nothing is equal in any tank. There will always be variations. But if I take a coral from my radium lit tank to another radium lit tank, its gonna look pretty close to the same over time. If I take corals from a radium lit tank and move them to leds, Ive never seen the colors improve, or even maintain.

My experience is telling me it is not a stretch. Maybe I found the magic mix to make things work. The only issues I have is the shadowing, but it is not as bad as it is made out to be.

 

[DavidinGA]

That would be because it is not superior, but approximately equal (depending on the fixture). It is different and has it's own set of pros and cons. Some fixtures do the job well, some ok, and some not at all.

The variation in color between LED, Mh and T-5 should really be no surprise to anyone. With just a bit of experience we should all know that different lighting systems and color temps will bring out different hues in corals. Some times just tank conditions will alter the color under the same lighting. If you are expecting any LED system to make corals look just like a radium lamp, that is an unrealistic expectation.

Usher in the beauty of not having to use JUST ONE light source...


Don't like MH colors? Toss up some T5/vho tubes.

LED's lack spread and spectrum? Add T5/vho.

T5 tank too flat? Add some LED's.

Not enough flexibility? Afraid your lights aren't growing/coloring up coral? Run MH+LED+T5's all together lol

 

[JPMagyar]

Look what the crazy LED hater did today . . . he added LEDs to his Spectra fixtures . . . what is this world coming to? Are pigs flying today,

Another mod on my Spectras today, and what a mod it is!! I added an AI Hydra 26 to the middle of the fixture so now I have moonlight and dawn/dusk. The coverage is just a tad under my tank width and creates shadowing, but I figure that's ok 'cuz dawn and dusk puts the sun on the horizon with long shadowing and for moonlight the effect is kinda spotlightish and cool

AND in one of those incredibly rare moments when life just works out it turns out that inside the Spectra there are two hanging plates that have holes drilled in the center of the plates and get this . . . THEY ARE EXACTLY THE RIGHT WIDTH APART FOR THE HYDRA MOUNTING HOLES!!!!!! :bounce1: I had to drill the holes slightly larger, but that was trivial. Then a nut plus a on inch spacer made the unit perfectly flush. It was like they designed the Hydra to fit perfectly.


tools and parts

a drill
a 3/16th drill bit
two 2.5 inch 8-32 bolts with nut
two one inch spacers
hex head to remove the Spectra cover
flat head screw driver
a dowel and tape to snake the power line in

I think that was it. It took all of 15 minutes and cost 300 bucks and now my $600 used Spectra is the same as a Giesemann Moonlight that costs $2850

 

[Wazzel]

Come over to the "dark side" Joe. It is bright, warm and controllable.

 

[lpsouth1978]

Look what the crazy LED hater did today . . . he added LEDs to his Spectra fixtures . . . what is this world coming to? Are pigs flying today,

Few here have said that LED's do not have some use. I do not see him switching out the halides for LED's. He is simply adding LED's to his current light and supplementing the halides. I think MOST reefers will tell you that the absolute best lighting is a combination of sources, i.e. MH+T5 or MH+LED.

Please don't misunderstand me, I am an LED user myself and am nearing the completion of a LARGE LED build for a 300DD. I may be in the minority, but I have had great success with LED's, though I have always been a DIY user. My first build was not a success and used only White and Blue LED's. My most successful build was used over a 34g Solana and colored and grew corals VERY well. Pictured below (after about 6 months under the LED's). That light used 7 different spectrums.

My current Build consists of 456 LED's also in 7 spectrums. I am hopeful that in a year I will be able to show that my light grows and colors corals as well as T5 and MH, but only time will tell.

I do not think there is currently a commercially available LED light that lives up to the expectations of MH proponents. However I do believe that if you are willing to spend the money and build a quality fixture yourself, you can achieve similar results. We have already spent nearly $4000 on this LED build alone, more than we would have spent to do MH on this tank. The upside is that there will be no bulb replacements, less heat, no need for a chiller or other cooling, etc...

Bottom Line..... I believe it is possible to have an amazing, colorful, fast growing reef using LED's, but it takes more effort and $$$$ than the majority are willing to spend. Commercial fixtures have a long way to go before they will be at the level of MH and therefore are not yet the best option for discerning SPS keepers.

Before LED (400W Halide 16" from water surface)


LED 12" from water surface (running for about 6 months)Taken with my phone and NO editing

 

[Wazzel]

I am probably going to regret this, but here is 6 months under a single hydra 52. Nov is at 6 months and the May is at 1 year. Everything from 1" give or take frags, only 4 pieces are 1 year in the tank, everything else is less.
November 2014

May 2015

 

[d2mini]

Come over to the "dark side" Joe. It is bright, warm and controllable.

I thought it was dim and cool.

 

[d2mini]

Before LED (400W Halide 16" from water surface)

Holy schmokes. :uhoh3:
Ya, led definitely makes more sense on nano tanks where you can get good coverage for not a lot of dough.
My 10g office nano is running a nano box led.

 

[mhucasey]

I am probably going to regret this, but here is 6 months under a single hydra 52. Nov is at 6 months and the May is at 1 year. Everything from 1" give or take frags, only 4 pieces are 1 year in the tank, everything else is less.
November 2014

May 2015

The tank is coming along nicely and you have good color and growth. You may experience shading issues side to side as the acros get bigger but I believe I remember you talking about adding a second Hydra in the future?

 

[Wazzel]

The tank is coming along nicely and you have good color and growth. You may experience shading issues side to side as the acros get bigger but I believe I remember you talking about adding a second Hydra in the future?

Thanks Matt. I am already experiencing some over growth shading. Still can not decide if I am going to add a fixture or rescape to try to sort it out. I would like a bigger tank. With what I have learned in the past year I think I could lay it out much better and not need a ridiculous number of fixtures.

 

[gablett]

I am probably going to regret this, but here is 6 months under a single hydra 52. Nov is at 6 months and the May is at 1 year. Everything from 1" give or take frags, only 4 pieces are 1 year in the tank, everything else is less.
November 2014

May 2015

Your yellow tang is in almost the exact same spot in both pictures. It must be photoshopped. :lolspin:

 

[wildman926]

I absolutely love this 10k look. Bright white, with a hint of blue, just outstanding. You can see clearly in the tank.

Here would be my example of what I see different from SPS grown under LED. Below are some pictures of corals under Metal halide, from a tank of mine way back from the dark ages of reef keeping when we were forced to use 10K lighting (oh the horror). These are from back in 2004.

Here are just some little frags sitting on plugs in a frag tank of mine from 10 years ago. 10K MH lighting.

 

[power boat jim]

Wazzle the tank is doing well congratulations on a good start.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Couple of questions for the radium users here, and any on who switched from led

Back story: I have been an led user since Jan 13, t5 before that,. Just switched the tank from hydra 52s to 2 250watt radiums, cayman sun pendants, Hamilton m80 ballasts. The frag tank has a 14k DE hamilton. I left led to give halide a try, and I'm on a quest to get things better. after 2 years of trying to dial in percentages, I managed to grow decent sized sps, but color has always been sub par.

Questions as follows

1. Compared to my hydra 52s, these radiums seem very dim. I thought it was the other way around, everyone always said leds apear dim so "be careful"

2. This might answer the above, will the bulb get brighter as it breaks in?

3. I had uv, violet, and royal blue leds so I had a decent amount of coral pop, and things looked decent. Under the radiums, almost all my stuff is completely brown and dull. Were my leds giving me illusions of color I never had?

4. Related to #3, will the radium eventually start flourecing my sps assuming my parameters are legit, or will I possibly need to supplement. I honestly was under the impression, no supplement would be necessary with the 20k radium since I have seen numerous tanks with nothing but halide.

I understand these are strange questions, just trying to see what I should expect since I actually have the lights running now. Thanks

 

[knekki]

Hello can anyone help me choose HQI lamp for my tank 50x30x30 Thanks