SPS were sold 80%(or more) as wild colonies in asia.
5inch~12inch indonesia wild colonies cost about 70usd~100usd.
aussie strawberry short cake wild colonies cost about 100usd ~400usd
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
SPS were sold 80%(or more) as wild colonies in asia.
5inch~12inch indonesia wild colonies cost about 70usd~100usd.
aussie strawberry short cake wild colonies cost about 100usd ~400usd
reef bloke
Member
All the talk of T5 giving more pop and argument for and against has prompted a test , now I've run LED in pure form in one guise of another for about 3 years now.
Tomorrow I will remove 2x Vega and replace them with 160 watts of T5. I will leave these up for 2 months and observe the colour of the corals directly under the T5 as they will be sat directly above prime sps real estate.
I will remove these and go back to my LED,s but I think it's fair to at least compare my own light preference with some physical data. I have been in the hobby long enough to run T8, sodium vapour, Mercury vapour, T5 and loads of different halide /ballast combo,s so I'm very confident in my LEDs compared to results past but time to walk the walk with my present system for a fair appraisal that isn't dismissive . I'll report back in a few months.
Tomorrow I will remove 2x Vega and replace them with 160 watts of T5. I will leave these up for 2 months and observe the colour of the corals directly under the T5 as they will be sat directly above prime sps real estate.
I will remove these and go back to my LED,s but I think it's fair to at least compare my own light preference with some physical data. I have been in the hobby long enough to run T8, sodium vapour, Mercury vapour, T5 and loads of different halide /ballast combo,s so I'm very confident in my LEDs compared to results past but time to walk the walk with my present system for a fair appraisal that isn't dismissive . I'll report back in a few months.
jminick2
New member
Dang must be nice.
kenpau
New member
There is an obvious reason why people fail with LEDs. They are completely customisable, for this reason it is possible to set lighting spectrums that you would never see in the wild, whereas MH/T5 units are just plug and play.
I've seen a few times people posting that they are having trouble with sps growth and colour, then go on to list their settings and it is almost completely random, basically they have set it to be aesthetically pleasing on the eye but its next to useless for coral growth and colour. LEDs take more work to find that right setting, unfortunately a lot of people don't have the patience and ditch them for T5/MH and start posting about how useless LEDs are.
Also it is common knowledge that more LED fixtures are required that MH to meet the requirements of an SPS tank, so doing a comparison between MH and LEDs as Nickdo did doesn't really work unless you have confirmed the colour spectrum is the same and so is the PAR. It is definitely a bigger financial outlay for LEDs, for me that outlay pays for itself everyday by being more aesthetically pleasing, the units are smaller and generally more modern looking and natural sunrise/sunset features just add to the enjoyment of having a reef tank. My favourite time of the day is sunset in my tank, the lights slowly ramp down and my MP40s do the same, it's very a peaceful couple of hours. Something I couldn't really achieve with MH. I guess it depends on what you want from your reef and what your budget is.
brad65ford
New member
Thought this and i believe most all issues are do to optics/focusing light in one area. LED's for me do better lower watt leds or no optics with higher watt leds.
There needs to be teaching of how to success with LED's since there are to many failures.
JB NY
Active member
This is one point that so many people never seem to get with so many of those asia tanks. They are mostly set up with full colonies and many times swapping out full colonies every few months when they die. Most of those tanks are very young. And yes colonies in Indonesia are about the same price of good frags are here in the states.
d2mini
Premium Member
Lesson #1: Spend a buttload of money! :thumbsup:
DavidinGA
Active member
Lesson #2 change led units/brands often because something "better" is available.
brad65ford
New member
DavidinGA
Active member
I'm still using leds myself, but have added T5's and my growth has improved drastically. So... Leds = meh decent but led+T5's is a win for me.
d2mini
Premium Member
LOL, it was just a friendly jab.
But it's true.
My tank currently has a fixture that cost me $1k which included everything, even bulbs.
To get the same amount of light, I would need at least 6 Radion Pros which would cost me $4500.
This has nothing to do with success. My tank did fine under LED as shown in pics a couple pages back. I just wanted things the LEDs couldn't provide without spending a bunch more money.
lpsouth1978
New member
I have to agree with this, and I am pro LED. My current build has cost more than $4000 and consists of nearly 500 LED's. Far more expensive than a good MH or T5 setup would be. I believe that the best way to be successful with LED's is to cover the tank in them, not just pucks, but tons of LED's.
We have seen time and time again that the most successful LED tanks have had lots of individual LED's spread over the tank. In general it is not the tanks with a Radion or two that do well, but the less expensive fixtures or DIY builds with lots of individual LED's instead of Pucks. And it can take LOTS of LED's, time, and experimentation (and money) to be successful. Unfortunately, there is not yet a plug and play LED solution for our tanks, and I'm not sure there ever will be (due to the high cost of making something like that available).
Coelli
New member
I currently have two Kessil A360NEs on my 36x18x24" tank and have been considering adding one more (it's not the cost that's stopping me, it's the mounting solution since I have a eurobraced tank). Most of my coral is thriving but I do have shadowing and a frag in the upper corner of the tank, mounted high on the wall, is not getting enough light on the side facing the outside of the tank. Was thinking about moving the two existing lights to the sides by a few inches and adding one more Kessil in the middle. It might be overkill, not sure.
Other than that I've been very happy with the Kessils; the growth and coral of the coral, the lack of heat in our hot climate, the controllability, and the fact that the cats can't jump on them which was actually a very large factor in the purchase decision.
Other than that I've been very happy with the Kessils; the growth and coral of the coral, the lack of heat in our hot climate, the controllability, and the fact that the cats can't jump on them which was actually a very large factor in the purchase decision.
@Coelli - I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when it comes to cats...
...but that's why I have a canopy, too. Otherwise I feel they'd be in there constantly adjusting the lights and fiddling with the pumps, when they know perfectly well that's my job.
Ray
...but that's why I have a canopy, too. Otherwise I feel they'd be in there constantly adjusting the lights and fiddling with the pumps, when they know perfectly well that's my job.
Ray
mmittlesteadt
New member
Well, color me confused. LOL.
I am a newbie (to reefkeeping, but 35+ years of planted freshwater tank experience) and I honestly could not tell anyone what works for corals or not. So I'm coming at this more from an engineering/logic angle.
I've read hundreds of threads researching lighting options, from MH to T5 to LED, etc. and on my small 40G breeder I settled on a single Kessil A160WE. I've seen the same light in action on a friend's very successful reef tank (of similar proportions) and we've discussed at length what to do to get mine to work for me and why so many may have had issues with LED fixtures.
Time and time again, I keep reading (even in the big Kessil Club thread) where people can't seem to get the coverage, but are putting the lights too close, or they are getting the coverage but not the intensity, yet are only running them at like 60% of the light's output capability. Then, as you said, they adjust the lights to look pleasing to the eye, but not what works for their coral.
Am I missing something here? Why would you spend a ton of money on high output LED fixtures with adjustable intensity/spectrum and then not adjust their intensity and spectrum to give them the success they are capable of?
As I said, I'm confused about the rationale and I think it is not as much a failure of LED's but of the users themselves, or a definite built in preference or prejudice. Which is fine as I don't really care one way or another aside from getting lighting to work for me. I've got no horse in this race.
Far be it from me to tell anyone else what works for them. Like I said, I'm not experienced enough in reefkeeping to know what will work for anyone. Go with what works and what you like. It's all cool.
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ReefCowboy
New member
I was watching some videos on YouTube from Mr. saltwater tank who is an avid led guy and his latest tank had three portions with different lighting systems, Led/T5/MH. His statement was "I'm curious to see what differences I see with each piece of the same coral placed in different sections"(diff lighting).
I also watched a video of a build he did where the customer requested he would add t5's to the LEDs in an sps dominan tank. His comments were " In order to prevent some shadowing on the corals", "I was impressed and am also learning from my clients".
If you watch most of his videos a year ago , LEDs were the main thing he talked about, T5's and Mh were definitely a thing from the past and he was always pointing benefits of LEDs over the conventional methods. Obviously he was representing led manufacturing companies, that was his job, but according to his statements, we would see less and less of T5's and MH in the future of the hobby.
The fact that a guy endorsed by Ecotech and with as much popularity in the reef community/equipment media is now going back and adding proven lighting methods to LEDs tells us somthing IMO.
I also watched a video of a build he did where the customer requested he would add t5's to the LEDs in an sps dominan tank. His comments were " In order to prevent some shadowing on the corals", "I was impressed and am also learning from my clients".
If you watch most of his videos a year ago , LEDs were the main thing he talked about, T5's and Mh were definitely a thing from the past and he was always pointing benefits of LEDs over the conventional methods. Obviously he was representing led manufacturing companies, that was his job, but according to his statements, we would see less and less of T5's and MH in the future of the hobby.
The fact that a guy endorsed by Ecotech and with as much popularity in the reef community/equipment media is now going back and adding proven lighting methods to LEDs tells us somthing IMO.
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mmittlesteadt
New member
I hope nobody thinks my last post was, in any way, saying any kind of lighting was better than another. It's not for me to say.
I only know that in my research of LED lighting, it seems quite obvious that many people seem to not know how to mount them or adjust the intensity and spectrum properly. For those who have and still prefer something else, well thankfully there are lots of options that one can find some kind that does work best for them.
I only know that in my research of LED lighting, it seems quite obvious that many people seem to not know how to mount them or adjust the intensity and spectrum properly. For those who have and still prefer something else, well thankfully there are lots of options that one can find some kind that does work best for them.
d2mini
Premium Member
Nuff said.
Read the other 4000+ posts in this thread, and then get some real lighting experience under your belt.
After that, things might be a little clearer.
DavidinGA
Active member
Ouch lolNuff said.
Read the other 4000+ posts in this thread, and then get some real lighting experience under your belt.
After that, things might be a little clearer.
The guy basically was calling out the users as the ultimate issue and if they weren't idiots leds would work great...
[emoji12]
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