Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[mmittlesteadt]

No one took it as an insult or tried to insult you.
First, the definition of "amazing results" will vary from person to person.
Second, the only people that have good success with LED (that i know of) are bathing the tank in lots of light. Many more fixtures than originally recommended. This has been shown and talked about here in this thread.

I think the amount and type of light required is completely dependent on one's goals with their reefs and there is no "one size fits all" lighting solution.

Personally, as an artist, I am designing my reef to be a living artistic composition and so I do not want my aquarium completely bathed in light and actually prefer both light and shadow in it's design. Others will desire something different. Over time I may want something different as well, and so this thread is of great benefit to me.

 

[markalot]

I think the amount and type of light required is completely dependent on one's goals with their reefs and there is no "one size fits all" lighting solution.

Personally, as an artist, I am designing my aquarium to be a living artistic composition and so I do not want my aquarium completely bathed in light and actually prefer both light and shadow in it's design. Others will desire something different.

That's all well and good unless it impacts the health of the corals and prevents you from reaching a desired goal.

 

[ifarmer]

Spent $600 on an led light back in 2001. After 6-7 months, I went back to T5 since 2001.

 

[oreo57]

Spent $600 on an led light back in 2001. After 6-7 months, I went back to T5 since 2001.

too early...

 

[mmittlesteadt]

That's all well and good unless it impacts the health of the corals and prevents you from reaching a desired goal.

I would never intentionally do anything that would cause harm to a living thing and having sufficient lighting for what corals I want to keep is paramount.

I have two personal friends, each in one camp or the other (LED/MH) and I'm watching with great interest how their established tanks are doing. They both have more than 10 years experience with some pretty difficult to keep corals and their conversations (arguments? LOL) kind of mimic this thread. One has almost 20 years experience with SW aquariums. The other is a marine biologist and gets paid to experiment with these things and assists in the creation of new reefs in the Gulf of Mexico. I can't even understand their conversations half the time.

I should add that both are having success with each...one using strictly LED now, the other MH. I guess time will tell.

 

[d2mini]

I think the amount and type of light required is completely dependent on one's goals with their reefs and there is no "one size fits all" lighting solution.

Personally, as an artist, I am designing my reef to be a living artistic composition and so I do not want my aquarium completely bathed in light and actually prefer both light and shadow in it's design. Others will desire something different. Over time I may want something different as well, and so this thread is of great benefit to me.

I'm an artist too. Not only is the tank an artistic composition, but the entire room was designed around the tank.

So get yourself some LED's. They will probably work good for you if you want lots of shadows and your tank is not sps heavy.
I designed shadow areas into my tank in the form of shelves and caves, which also give the fish hiding spaces and pass-throughs. I needed shadow areas for low light coral and sponges.
But I also need plenty of high light areas with even coverage, not pinpoint spots of light, for all my sps.
So you will need to choose coral and coral placement wisely.

 

[mmittlesteadt]

I'm an artist too. Not only is the tank an artistic composition, but the entire room was designed around the tank.

So get yourself some LED's. They will probably work good for you if you want lots of shadows and your tank is not sps heavy.
I designed shadow areas into my tank in the form of shelves and caves, which also give the fish hiding spaces and pass-throughs. I needed shadow areas for low light coral and sponges.
But I also need plenty of high light areas with even coverage, not pinpoint spots of light, for all my sps.
So you will need to choose coral and coral placement wisely.

Yes, how I aquascaped and my choice of lighting has everything to do with what corals I want to keep and their placement. I specifically created my rock work to have a kind of spiral staircase effect of shelves, ledges, overhangs, caves, etc. at varying heights and differing water flow. I also did not want to light the tank from one end to the other as I wanted the light to taper off towards the ends to help eliminate the "glass box" look.

I had MH fixtures when I kept heavily planted and aquascaped FW tanks. Loved MH. Not the heat nor the electric bill, but loved the lighting. Even my orchids that surrounded the tank benefited. I am however, now looking for something different. LED was not available back then.

 

[d2mini]

Well there ya go, problem solved.
Glad we could help.

Next!

 

[gablett]

Yes, how I aquascaped and my choice of lighting has everything to do with what corals I want to keep and their placement. I specifically created my rock work to have a kind of spiral staircase effect of shelves, ledges, overhangs, caves, etc. at varying heights and differing water flow. I also did not want to light the tank from one end to the other as I wanted the light to taper off towards the ends to help eliminate the "glass box" look.

I had MH fixtures when I kept heavily planted and aquascaped FW tanks. Loved MH. Not the heat nor the electric bill, but loved the lighting. Even my orchids that surrounded the tank benefited. I am however, now looking for something different. LED was not available back then.

Dont count on it lowering your electric bill much at all. The amount of LEDs you need is pretty close to the wattage of the MH plus your heater will run a ton more. LEDs actually cost me more in electricity.

 

[markalot]

I would never intentionally do anything that would cause harm to a living thing and having sufficient lighting for what corals I want to keep is paramount.

I have two personal friends, each in one camp or the other (LED/MH) and I'm watching with great interest how their established tanks are doing. They both have more than 10 years experience with some pretty difficult to keep corals and their conversations (arguments? LOL) kind of mimic this thread. One has almost 20 years experience with SW aquariums. The other is a marine biologist and gets paid to experiment with these things and assists in the creation of new reefs in the Gulf of Mexico. I can't even understand their conversations half the time.

I should add that both are having success with each...one using strictly LED now, the other MH. I guess time will tell.

I did not intend to imply you would, but if you've read the thread you would know that one of the main issue discussed is the coverage, and lack of coverage creates harsh shadows and ends up resulting in poor coral health. As the earth turns the sun moves across the sky so that while a single non reflected point source might look natural at a single point in time it's not unless it moves to eventually light most of the coral. MH using large reflectors to produce multiple points of light solves this as does the tube and reflector design of T5. The look is not natural, but the results are fantastic IMO.

A lot of success with LED's is the result of people using fixtures that cover most of the tank.

There's a second discussion about coral colors and growth rates with LED's but I don't think that argument is as cut and dry. I personally think acros look best under either MH or T5, but that's a subjective opinion.

 

[mmittlesteadt]

I did not intend to imply you would, but if you've read the thread you would know that one of the main issue discussed is the coverage, and lack of coverage creates harsh shadows and ends up resulting in poor coral health. As the earth turns the sun moves across the sky so that while a single non reflected point source might look natural at a single point in time it's not unless it moves to eventually light most of the coral. MH using large reflectors to produce multiple points of light solves this as does the tube and reflector design of T5. The look is not natural, but the results are fantastic IMO.

A lot of success with LED's is the result of people using fixtures that cover most of the tank.

There's a second discussion about coral colors and growth rates with LED's but I don't think that argument is as cut and dry. I personally think acros look best under either MH or T5, but that's a subjective opinion.

You bring up an interesting point and my inventive nature makes me wonder...since there are now controllers out there that not only ramp up/down light fixtures to simulate the sun rising and setting (along with the spectral and intensity change), that if at some point, some kind of track could be designed with LED's that not only allowed for the ramping up and down, but also allowed the fixture itself to slowly track along a bar, similar to the sun tracking along the sky (an ocean version of a planetarium in aquaculture). Coverage in a more natural way. Futuristic to be sure. Until that day comes, I can see your point about coverage. Perhaps multiple LED fixtures that run across the tank and are ramped up and down from one end of the line to the other in a similar way to the sun tracking the sky.

I'm just thinking about this as opposed to "flooding" the tank with constant similar lighting. Perhaps the movement of light also has something to do with how corals respond to it?

 

[DavidinGA]

Dont count on it lowering your electric bill much at all. The amount of LEDs you need is pretty close to the wattage of the MH plus your heater will run a ton more. LEDs actually cost me more in electricity.

A point in favor of leds, as far as energy efficiency goes, is that while it may not save you money on the power it's pulling from the wall it will most certainly save you a bit of money because it's not making your home AC run like MH does....

 

[d2mini]

You bring up an interesting point and my inventive nature makes me wonder...since there are now controllers out there that not only ramp up/down light fixtures to simulate the sun rising and setting (along with the spectral and intensity change), that if at some point, some kind of track could be designed with LED's that not only allowed for the ramping up and down, but also allowed the fixture itself to slowly track along a bar, similar to the sun tracking along the sky (an ocean version of a planetarium in aquaculture). Coverage in a more natural way. Futuristic to be sure. Until that day comes, I can see your point about coverage. Perhaps multiple LED fixtures that run across the tank and are ramped up and down from one end of the line to the other in a similar way to the sun tracking the sky.

I'm just thinking about this as opposed to "flooding" the tank with constant similar lighting. Perhaps the movement of light also has something to do with how corals respond to it?

People have done that for years with MH.
Personally I find it as unnecessary as the slow ramping up and down, unless you want to run less bulbs.

 

[mmittlesteadt]

People have done that for years with MH.
Personally I find it as unnecessary as the slow ramping up and down, unless you want to run less bulbs.

Just curious as my friend (the marine biologist) is studying phototropism in corals. Of course, for him it's not just a hobby and he has a far larger budget to experiment with than I'd ever have.

I also wonder...How unnecessary is it for the corals in the ocean that the sun moves across the sky, with its light increasing and decreasing in intensity as it does so? [NOTE: I mean that seriously (not being sarcastic)].

Even if one were to light their corals from all sides (i.e. - complete coverage) the lighting is still fixed, just all around it. Is there a benefit to varying intensity and movement that we are not aware of? We are always finding ways to utilize technology to help us maintain reef systems so maybe one day we will develop lighting further beyond where we are now. Personally I believe as LED technology develops, it will only enhance our ability to care for corals.

I'll have to ask my friend his thoughts on this.

 

[this is me]

For all the remaining MH users, let get a petition going and bring back the Phoenix bulb!
I'm on my last set of 250W DE and can't find them anywhere. I blame it on LED!

 

[RCMark325]

I went back to Halides and I love them. I used to run Phoenix 14k HQI, but I bought a Cebu Sun that has mogul bulbs. The reeflux 12k is a nice bulb

 

[DavidinGA]

People have done that for years with MH.
Personally I find it as unnecessary as the slow ramping up and down, unless you want to run less bulbs.

Agreed.

Ramping power up/down with leds is worthless and more of a hindrance than anything imo.

 

[Wazzel]

People have done that for years with MH.
Personally I find it as unnecessary as the slow ramping up and down, unless you want to run less bulbs.

I think it is just a preference thing. I do long ramps, mostly so I can have light on my tank longer and I like the "simulated day" thing even tho I do not really know if it is beneficial. Long duration/low intensity or short duration/high intensity or a hybrid. I really do not think there is one right answer on this. You really need to understand your lighting system and animal requirements and work with it.

 

[Wazzel]

Agreed.

Ramping power up/down with leds is worthless and more of a hindrance than anything imo.

I have not noticed a negative impact on my tank.

 

[power boat jim]

I have not noticed a negative impact on my tank.

I like the feature, it brings out many different colors and gives the tank a very different look as the lights begin to dim. It appears to have little effect on health of the tank either way.