Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

redwhiteandblue said:
Not sure if you read the title of this thread or if you are a troll, but obviously this is not the place to ask for led recommendation...........:beer:
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Yes, indeed I misunderstood.

But I did start reading more than a few of these pages and will probably keep my T5's for now at least. I've had great results so far and have LED strips for ripple and added blue so I think I'm probably OK.
 
Wazzel said:
I think it is just a preference thing. I do long ramps, mostly so I can have light on my tank longer and I like the "simulated day" thing even tho I do not really know if it is beneficial. Long duration/low intensity or short duration/high intensity or a hybrid. I really do not think there is one right answer on this. You really need to understand your lighting system and animal requirements and work with it.
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Yes, this is why i have the T5s come on and off in two stages as well.
I'm just saying the loooong ramping up and down isn't doing anything positive for your coral, just for your enjoyment. And some people are ramping them up and down too long, with not enough time at full daylight.


mmittlesteadt said:
Just curious as my friend (the marine biologist) is studying phototropism in corals. Of course, for him it's not just a hobby and he has a far larger budget to experiment with than I'd ever have.

I also wonder...How unnecessary is it for the corals in the ocean that the sun moves across the sky, with its light increasing and decreasing in intensity as it does so? [NOTE: I mean that seriously (not being sarcastic)].

Even if one were to light their corals from all sides (i.e. - complete coverage) the lighting is still fixed, just all around it. Is there a benefit to varying intensity and movement that we are not aware of? We are always finding ways to utilize technology to help us maintain reef systems so maybe one day we will develop lighting further beyond where we are now. Personally I believe as LED technology develops, it will only enhance our ability to care for corals.

I'll have to ask my friend his thoughts on this.
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I understand where you are coming from but this is not the ocean. It's a tiny little box of water. Not everything is a direct translation and i've never seen a difference. If it made a noticeable difference everyone would be doing it.
 
d2mini said:
Yes, this is why i have the T5s come on and off in two stages as well.
I'm just saying the loooong ramping up and down isn't doing anything positive for your coral, just for your enjoyment. And some people are ramping them up and down too long, with not enough time at full daylight.



I understand where you are coming from but this is not the ocean. It's a tiny little box of water. Not everything is a direct translation and i've never seen a difference. If it made a noticeable difference everyone would be doing it.
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No argument from me on any of those points, even the ones not directed at me. Even tho my ramps are 5 hours each I go from 0-80% in the first 2.5 hours. So with my 4 hour mid day I am at 80% or above for 9 hours. For me that is really near those numbers since I run at 96% of max power for my mid day.
 
Told a guy at the store that I was going to run MH on my new tank like I did 18 years ago just before I did a bunch of moving and give up tanks for a bit. He said "Oh, an old school guy - eh?" I am glad that the demise of MH is not necessarily over from what I started reading a year ago while getting back into the reef tank world. Maybe what is old will become new again!
 
mandarin417 said:
Told a guy at the store that I was going to run MH on my new tank like I did 18 years ago just before I did a bunch of moving and give up tanks for a bit. He said "Oh, an old school guy - eh?" I am glad that the demise of MH is not necessarily over from what I started reading a year ago while getting back into the reef tank world. Maybe what is old will become new again!
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Kind of like the new Camaro and Mustang Huh?
 
Im thinking of adding t5's with my led's made in china. I know nothing about tube lighting can someone make any suggestions for over a standard 180g mostly sps.
 
In an effort to replicate ‘day’ my previous tank had 4 x 400 MH bulbs mounted on a trolley that moved along the tank during the day (they didn’t move continuously but occupied 5 different positions over about 8 hours). The tank was 1m front to back and 2.4 m long and the bulbs were mounted in a rectangle with 2 toward the front and two toward the back.

It certainly added a lot of complexity but I can’t say it greatly improved anything in the tank as I didn’t have anything to compare it to.

Steve
 
power boat jim said:
I like the feature, it brings out many different colors and gives the tank a very different look as the lights begin to dim. It appears to have little effect on health of the tank either way.
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That may be true for coral, but I have fish and inverts that are more active during the "dawn" and "dusk" periods in the tank. My mandarin is a good example of this as those are prime feeding times for him. The pods are more active than during the "day" but he still has light to see. My pom pom crabs begin to appear at "dusk" as well. I think the "dawn" period is kinder to the animals too since they can't shut their eyelids against a sudden bright light after hours of darkness, but that part could just be me projecting.
 
Coelli said:
That may be true for coral, but I have fish and inverts that are more active during the "dawn" and "dusk" periods in the tank. My mandarin is a good example of this as those are prime feeding times for him. The pods are more active than during the "day" but he still has light to see. My pom pom crabs begin to appear at "dusk" as well. I think the "dawn" period is kinder to the animals too since they can't shut their eyelids against a sudden bright light after hours of darkness, but that part could just be me projecting.
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That is a good point, it doesnt always have to be about the coral.
 
DavidinGA said:
The already randomness of led spectrums are further skewed by having the power levels fluctuate through the day by the end user...
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Well, I use Kessils so I don't think they're really random, but that's me. Why do you say that ramping is fluctuating, though? And why is that worse than a MH that's turning on and off abruptly (something that would never happen over an actual reef)? And if an LED fixture is fluctuating (which it shouldn't), couldn't the fluctuation be similar to clouds passing over the sun over a reef? Not being facetious here, I really am curious. I can't use MH in my house, so I went with what seemed like the best LED option I could find, but I'm always interested in learning.
 
DavidinGA said:
The already randomness of led spectrums are further skewed by having the power levels fluctuate through the day by the end user...
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You can avoid any spectrum change with PWM controlled systems, but yes, with LEDS there is a huge opportunity for dicking around with colour mixes while the world passes you by.

But I also used to spend too long mucking around with timers when when trying to get fluorescents and metal halides to come and go off in a staggered fassion (mainly to avoid stressing the fish). And then, after a power cut, I would have to go and adjust them all again.
 
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Coelli said:
Well, I use Kessils so I don't think they're really random, but that's me. Why do you say that ramping is fluctuating, though? And why is that worse than a MH that's turning on and off abruptly (something that would never happen over an actual reef)? And if an LED fixture is fluctuating (which it shouldn't), couldn't the fluctuation be similar to clouds passing over the sun over a reef? Not being facetious here, I really am curious. I can't use MH in my house, so I went with what seemed like the best LED option I could find, but I'm always interested in learning.
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Basically, most led users set the unit to ramp up to a peak power level then taper back down before shutting off. All those increments where the led unit increases the power level of the channels the spectrum shifts accordingly. In theory that could be great if you had it dialed in perfectly, but how many really are?

I think thats part of the reason mh and t5 simply work - instant on/off and constant unchanging spectrum all day long.
 
Metal Halides will continue to get harder and harder to find as time moves on. Most industry is moving to leds for most lighting anymore and government is moving to led as well. I would stock up on some bulbs if i were you guys, they will continue to go up in price and then disappear. It's actually cheaper for us at the city to get a led fixture for street lighting then a halide now.
 
I also think to many people think they are mimicing the ocean. There are few things we provide in glass boxes that adequately mimic the ocean. Stop trying to match the sun. Its obvious corals enjoy things to be the same and very stable. The exact number seems to be less important than stability. I think the more the light changes and the spectrum shifts throughout the day the more the coral has to change to adapt. Find the spectrum the coral likes, and bake them with it for as long as they can stand. Most of the fish we have in our tanks arent even in as bright of light as we are giving them to begin with. Lightenning, passing clouds, all cool creature features that do nothing for the animals.
 
Technology advances along whether people are reluctant to use it or not. This is nothing more than people wanting to use their horse and buggy instead that new fangled motor car.

But hey, the horse and buggy are still in use to this day. Pretty darn reliable, consistent, less prone to failure, easier to repair and accomplishes its purpose. It's all cool.

Personally I find the rationalizations and generalizations about LED being inferior to be a bit over the top. A great many people are having success...actually great success with LED lighting. That doesn't mean everyone is going to just jump on the LED bandwagon when they've been having success with something else.

But if people are having success with LED and others are not, then why is it LED's are considered to be inferior or at fault for those failures? That doesn't mean having a preference for something other than LED's is wrong, but that line of thinking is flawed logic.
 
gablett said:
I also think to many people think they are mimicing the ocean. There are few things we provide in glass boxes that adequately mimic the ocean. Stop trying to match the sun. Its obvious corals enjoy things to be the same and very stable. The exact number seems to be less important than stability. I think the more the light changes and the spectrum shifts throughout the day the more the coral has to change to adapt. Find the spectrum the coral likes, and bake them with it for as long as they can stand. Most of the fish we have in our tanks arent even in as bright of light as we are giving them to begin with. Lightenning, passing clouds, all cool creature features that do nothing for the animals.
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If only nature had a clue.
 
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