Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

jestronix said:
without doubt a picture tells a thousand words, still I'm yet to see the results from led that T5 and halide have proven time and time again. surely after this many years of led we would be at the set forget stage?

Are there more issues than spectrum and light coverage ? What about heat at the coral surface ? What energy does heat carry to the coral ? T5 and halide emit heat, led almost nothing. We all know there's something missing no matter how hard we try to make led work. It has its place though, morning and night viewing it's great or for colour supplementation. It will be years and many totms before I use it as a main light.

When fixture makers find that missing ingredient, halide and t5 will disappear pretty quick. What 8 years of led and we still have halide and T5 fixtures being the choice for most SPS keepers. if LEDs were the answer this thread would belong gone, then again did T5 vs halide go for 8 years of debating ?
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T-5 vs MH debate still goes on, it is just not hostile anymore. Same for this MH bulb vs that MH bulb or this T-5 mix vs that T-5 mix. Lighting is such a preference item that trying to prove one is "best" is kind of silly.
 
Aqualund said:
Yeah, I dunno how many times a month I need to explain to people that LED's radiate heat.
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metalhalidelampsfigure4.jpg


There may be something to the far IR heating effect of MH.. Wouldn't apply to t5 much though...

You'd have to measure the internal temp of corals to find out though..
Like the "quartz heater" effect..
Water complicates this though.. it is pretty good at sucking it up before reaching any life..

hale73.gif


Probably should scratch that one off the list.. ;)
 
A little more digging shows near IR and IR wavelengths can indeed punch down up to 10 meters in the ocean, @1m 50% is lost, so in our crystal clear tanks this maybe more? Either way it's making its way to the coral. In nature this would only be in shallow reefs though.

Well there's one way to find out, infrared light and LEDs test :)

I'm leaning on near IR 750 to 800nm
 
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jestronix said:
A little more digging shows near IR and IR wavelengths can indeed punch down up to 10 meters in the ocean, @1m 50% is lost, so in our crystal clear tanks this maybe more? Either way it's making its way to the coral. In nature this would only be in shallow reefs though.

Well there's one way to find out, infrared light and LEDs test :)
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light.gif
 
an interesting read

http://www.livescience.com/43351-corals-trap-light.html

Near IR light being trapped and utilized for photosynthesis. So could near IR play apart in healthy SPS? When taking a look at some spectral graphs of T5 aquarium lights, you can see a small peak just after 700nm.

How much of a role is this small peak really playing ? Penetration into our aquarium, which is much much clearer than the ocean could be a factor. It looks like pure IR is stopped at the waters surface, but near IR which is still in the visible range.

It would appear that the OSLON SSL 80, 730 nm (far-red), led is what some of the top end led fixtures are using, and it could be more than just for visual purposes.
 
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By the time that you put all of these missing spectrums into the mix, you will end up with a fixture that is the same wattage as a M80. Then, the IR will heat the tankwater and you need a chiller? Chaos! Are cats are going to start living with dogs next?

Does anybody else think that the "they look different, not better or worse" is akin to the argument that everybody is special and you get a trophy for trying? Of course, there is a better and worse... If you ain't first, then you are last.

IR seems similar to UV which loses punch fast in the water below 1M. Does anybody here have a tank that is more than 1M deep? ...so it could very much matter in our homes where a 30" deep tank is quite rare and most are 24" deep or less.
 
So jda better and worse aren't subjective but absolutes? That is a fascinating perspective. Everyone has opinions. I once applied an expensive Venetian plaster finish to the interior of a luxury home. I saw the man of the house inspecting the work and asked what he thought of it. He told me he was color blind but liked the apparent texture of the finish. His wife was the impetus behind the project and she loved the color. Was someone wrong there?

Oh ya, why does additional spectrum require additional wattage? You know you don't have to have a linear increase in power with spectrum when adding LEDs right?
 
jda said:
Does anybody else think that the "they look different, not better or worse" is akin to the argument that everybody is special and you get a trophy for trying? Of course, there is a better and worse... If you ain't first, then you are last.
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Since this was obviously ment for me I will answer. No it is not. Visually pleaseing is purely subjective. If it were absolut we would all be running the exact same lighting systems.
 
there is better and worse in lighting, and it is defined by "experts" in the field.... the food is better at Le Bernardin, NY than Burger King as defined by chefs, whether you like Burger King more is your opinion and that is fine. it is hard to find any "experts" that say LEDs are better than MH.
 
There is always better and worse. Everywhere. Without such, there is no desire and thus no demand and there would be no open/free market. This doesn't mean that everybody will be running the same systems, it means that some people like to tinker, some people like old things, some people don't know lights from shineola, some people like to be on the cutting edge, some people cannot afford what they want and all of the other gazillion scenarios that are out there today.

Does brown digi have better or worse looks than a Pearlberry? If anybody tries to say that it is subjective and in the eye of the beholder, then they probably need a mental exam. Borwn digi does not get a medal just for showing up. Neither do virtually all the LED tanks that I have ever seen with my own eyes. The few LED tanks that are close to getting a medal would be hall-of-fame with different lights.
 
Please don't confuse better and worse with right and wrong. If you like a whopper more than a gourmet burger from a highly rated burger restaurant, it is not wrong, but the whopper is still worse.
 
jda said:
Please don't confuse better and worse with right and wrong. If you like a whopper more than a gourmet burger from a highly rated burger restaurant, it is not wrong, but the whopper is still worse.
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That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read, as you're still talking about someones opinion. If they prefer that burger then for them it is better....

The amount of close minded comments in this thread is absolutely staggering.

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

LED guys, if you like LED and have success with LED then by all means enjoy LED. You're not wrong if you're doing what you think works best for you.

MH guys, if you like MH and have success with MH then by all means enjoy MH. You're not wrong if you're doing what you think works best for you.

T5 guys, if you like T5 and have success with LED then by all means enjoy T5. You're not wrong if you're doing what you think works best for you.

VHO and PC guys you need jesus. Seriously you guys are just weird. :hmm4: :lolspin:
 
I can understand VHO guys, have you actually seen a VHO lit tank? Too bad it is hard to find VHO these days.
 
Ha. I have seen vho lit tanks as recently as a few years ago. New hobbyist with not a lot of info bought a big tank from an old timer with a lot of brand new old stock vho bulbs. Blue and white. Looked ok. I don't see what all the fuss is about. A well lit t5ho tank with good bulbs is brighter and more vibrant.
 
jda said:
I think that similar wattage, high quality, VHO, T5 and MH (on wide reflectors) setups all look VERY similar to nearly identical.... almost to the point where if you have a closeup of the frag, then you cannot really tell. I am not talking about bad setups like small reflector MH, horrible T5s (oddysea and the like) or VHO on tar ballasts that all will all produce so-so results. LED is the outlier among these three.
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I am sorry to say this is very far from truth, I speak from my personal experience because I use MH, t5, and LED on thousands of coral frags, they look dramatically different under different lightings despite under similar PAR values. I wish people speak based on their actual experience, otherwise a thread like this is basically useless except for entertainment purpose.
 
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