Anyone use PhosGuard?

[facewedgie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7725916#post7725916 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HowardW
Interesting how the 4 or 5 people in this thread who have actually USED the product report that it works well and have seen no ill effects from its use.........but I guess 'articles' are more conclusive than actual firsthand experience in their own tanks to some people, especially to those that haven't even used the product but will offer others their 'advice'.

i HAVE used phosguard (unfortunately)
please click this link
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=870272

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7725916#post7725916 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HowardW
<<< that so funny! Randy did tests for all of us. i take his Harvard educated word for it. >>>


He did?? Perhaps I read the wrong article but from what I read he actually did NOT test Phosguard in a tank and reported corals showing ill effects as a direct result of its use. What he did do was test Phosguard in a MUCH higher than recommended dose in a small water sample to see if it released aluminum.

yes, and then he did a second test:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=219105
(heres some highlights for the lazy people)
"I decided that it was interesting enough for several standpoints to test Phosguard further, and have now done so.

In short, I rinsed some Phosguard with 2x it's volume of RO/DI water (6 mL). I then put Phosguard into a media chamber in a Duetto pump at the media (3 mL) to water ratio recommended by Seachem. I used raw Instant Ocean artificial seawater, as before. I ran it for 5 days in a plastic container (1 gallon total volume). One of the samples was filtered through a 0.45 um filter to distinguish "soluble" aluminum from "particulate" aluminum

The results do not look good for Phosguard:

Raw IO : no detectable aluminum (<0.05 ppm)
Phosguard water (unfiltered) 0.41 ppm
Phosguard water (filtered) 0.42 ppm"



....and THEN greg morin, seachems CEO had this to say about the tests:
"Uncle!

That's obviously a disappointing result but I can't argue with your technique this time. All of our data indicates that aluminum oxide should be completely insoluble, so this certainly warrants further investigation to determine the cause of even this small amount being leached."


so howard, when you sarcastically state that "I guess 'articles' are more conclusive than actual firsthand experience", you need to realize, these are not simply "articles", these are tests, the only way anyone can come to any conclusion. randy performed TESTS for us, i trust randy's knowledge and experience, and even the seachem ceo was crying "uncle!" in the end.

 

[Dale Carlisle]

Thanks for the links, I found Randy's article very interesting. I also realize that some folks have very entrenched positions!! I don't - that's why I'm following the thread. Again though, even Randy states more research needs to be done to determine the effects of Aluminum on corals. I guess that's where my interest lies with this issue now.
Oddly enough, I do engage in research; that's why I visit forums like RC and read threads like this one. The exchanges by people with differing viewpoints can be quite instructive (particularly when backed by links, facts etc...). Through all the riff raff a lot of good ideas come forward (at least I walk away learning something new). Intelligent debate is a necessary component of intellectual progress - However, denigrating other peoples positions by using words like noobish is not.
Careful, Don't confuse the post count with aquatic experience - this only indicates how many times one pushes the submit reply icon.

 

[outy]

i can apolagize for words like noob= and i do. what you dont understand is that there are many vendors that push products here that new people should not bother with when there are better cheaper choices. [the vendors are relentless in there pursuit of $$$ here] ive been following these forums for many years before i registered as well as other forums before that and i have already read these articles and post, every one! thats why i have my opinion. I have done the research/legwork not for a post or two but for years and im not an armchair reefer to say the least. i do however try and help people new to the hobby not make many of the mistakes that i have faced and overcome donating my free time here and learning more myself at the same time

 

[vessxpress1]

I'm not entrenched either. I'll gladly try a different type of media but I'd highly doubt if I would find anything different about my tank. It seems like we're trying to take something that isn't broke and fix it. My phosphates are 0. That's all I asked it to do. I don't know off hand what my exact volume ratio of phosguard to water is but it amounts to a 2"x3"x 1/2" bag for a 38 gallon tank. Maybe the cumulative amount of aluminum in the water over time is in question but I do 20+% water changes twice a month.

Is there an aluminum test kit? I'd love to test some water and see what I have.

BTW, the CEO cried uncle that it leached aluminum oxide into the water but made no mention of what it actually does to corals. I swear I read an article in one of the books I have that said basically, NSW contains small amounts of every natural occuring element there is. Who's to say what a large or small amount is? What's unacceptable? I'm not accusing, I'm just asking. What would be considered a large, intolerable amount of aluminum in our water when in fact it could be virtualy harmless to begin with? I will try a different type of phospate remover next time, just for the sake of argument.