Apolemichthys Kingi's!!!

[alprazo]

Btw. I just check
The leopard and pyjama shark stock list again. What do you know, they also have 3 kingii.

 

[alprazo]

And pseudoanthias connelli. 5 to be exact.

 

[d-man]

What is the price though on those kingiis?

 

[alprazo]

Old women angels too. Sorry, can't publicly post price

 

[photoblepharon]

Cool, that's what I thought, I just wanted to be sure.

So I know for a fact that at least one of the collectors in Tahiti is catching his fish at night using snorkel and plastic bags.

Here's another guy you owe an apology for , too bad he doesn't post here.

You sure are big on demanding apologies.

I pretty clearly stated I was talking about rare fish that you see talked about in the forums and on blogs and I don't mean the fish caught at 20'.

 

[photoblepharon]

It's pretty simple my friend,
Madagascar, a huge island is pretty close.
there's collection there.
Can you name some of the fish that they are collecting?

Pretty close? It's over 1000 miles away. No P. connelli have ever been sighted outside of ZA.

It's like Steve Robinson claiming he caught a bunch of Clipperton Angels in Mexico. Oh right, you believed that lie too.

 

[Vili_Shark]

I didn't say he smuggled fish, I said it wouldn't surprise me that he would deal with such shady fish. Ask Eric about the Clarions he sold from the drug/fish smuggler Craig Lightner. I'm sure he will plead ignorance.

I hear about plenty of illegal fish and corals on the market all the time: Rhizotrochus, illegal Clarions from Craig Lightner that Eric Cohen sold, the Clippertons from Steve, all French Polynesian fish from everyone, South African fish, Caribbean corals and fish that were obtained illegally, etc. (see Joe Russo, Tropicorium, etc). I know from reading your posts that you are willing to excuse this behavior. Like I said, keep it up. In the long run when the hobby is regulated out of existence you can thank yourself.

You wrote here "French Polynesian fish from everyone"

 

[Vili_Shark]

Pretty close? It's over 1000 miles away. No P. connelli have ever been sighted outside of ZA.

It's like Steve Robinson claiming he caught a bunch of Clipperton Angels in Mexico. Oh right, you believed that lie too.

I wrote you before, you have NO IDEA what they have in Madagascar do you?

So why you make so much noise?

Years a go I was in touch with a fisherman there (not for the hobby that is), he sent me pics of:
P.maculosus
P.chrysurus
Z.gemmatum
and many more.
Would you guess that?

You have no idea on what is going on, you just point fingers.

I tell you once again, you have a proof- talk , otherwise take a rest, talking about what Steve did and Craig Lightner did over a decade ago won't make these Kingiis illegal.
Might boost your ego that you've been around for all these years, but nothing more than that.

 

[OrionN]

Well, I am glad that I don't keep expensive fish. Expensive enough to worry about them smuggle from out of the country like the fishes mentioned here.
My most expensive animal is my 26+ inch T. gigas. ~ 15 years from his spawned date in a clam farm.
Finding out about Dick Perrin at Tropicorium smuggle fish and animal from Florida to sell a few years ago really sadden me.

I agree with Vili Shark, spew venomous accusations of some one broken the law without proof is inappropriate. If it turn out that the one fling these accusations is doing it for personal gain, then it is even worst. I am glad that our law require the burden of proof from the prosecutors. I am glad that I don't have to proof my innocent if I ever get accuse of breaking the law.

I myself would not buy things that I though was obtained illegally.

You need not worry about regulation. IMO, catching and selling a few high price fishes will not result in regulation. It is hysteria of people from loud mis-information that will result in regulation. Other causes would be justifiable negative impact of removing the animals, justifiable anger due to gross inappropriate behavior of collectors, middle men or aquarists.

I guess I have more faith in the law. We just need to fight mis-information and self regulate regarding appropriate behavior of our-self and the behavior of who and where we get our animals from.

 

[Dmorty217]

Pretty close? It's over 1000 miles away. No P. connelli have ever been sighted outside of ZA.

It's like Steve Robinson claiming he caught a bunch of Clipperton Angels in Mexico. Oh right, you believed that lie too.

Those were "blue passers"

 

[photoblepharon]

I wrote you before, you have NO IDEA what they have in Madagascar do you?

So why you make so much noise?

Years a go I was in touch with a fisherman there (not for the hobby that is), he sent me pics of:
P.maculosus
P.chrysurus
Z.gemmatum
and many more.
Would you guess that?

You have no idea on what is going on, you just point fingers.

I tell you once again, you have a proof- talk , otherwise take a rest, talking about what Steve did and Craig Lightner did over a decade ago won't make these Kingiis illegal.
Might boost your ego that you've been around for all these years, but nothing more than that.

Did he mention P. connelli in that list? I didn't think so. That might be more relevant to the discussion of illegal fish coming out of ZA.

Speaking of ego boosts, I am super impressed that you know 3 fish that are found in Madagascar <golf clap>

 

[photoblepharon]

You wrote here "French Polynesian fish from everyone"

Ok, I misspoke. All the bread and butter fish from 20' deep are legal if they're caught on snorkel.

It's very clear there are other much deeper fish coming out of French Polynesia.

 

[photoblepharon]

Well, I am glad that I don't keep expensive fish. Expensive enough to worry about them smuggle from out of the country like the fishes mentioned here.
My most expensive animal is my 26+ inch T. gigas. ~ 15 years from his spawned date in a clam farm.
Finding out about Dick Perrin at Tropicorium smuggle fish and animal from Florida to sell a few years ago really sadden me.

I agree with Vili Shark, spew venomous accusations of some one broken the law without proof is inappropriate. If it turn out that the one fling these accusations is doing it for personal gain, then it is even worst. I am glad that our law require the burden of proof from the prosecutors. I am glad that I don't have to proof my innocent if I ever get accuse of breaking the law.

I myself would not buy things that I though was obtained illegally.

You need not worry about regulation. IMO, catching and selling a few high price fishes will not result in regulation. It is hysteria of people from loud mis-information that will result in regulation. Other causes would be justifiable negative impact of removing the animals, justifiable anger due to gross inappropriate behavior of collectors, middle men or aquarists.

I guess I have more faith in the law. We just need to fight mis-information and self regulate regarding appropriate behavior of our-self and the behavior of who and where we get our animals from.

I haven't accused any specific person of breaking the law without a public record that they did so. What I have said is that there are a whole lot of illegally obtained animals in the trade that people who know better should be avoiding, if they had any integrity.

I've had more than one conversation with rare fish collectors where they explicitly state they simply don't care if a fish was obtained legally or not. How does that make our hobby look?

Take it straight from Vili:

Anyway, I did my homework, I dont really care how the Clarion will come my way legal or not, since it is not an endangered species, and the ban of fishing Clarions is just a crazy goverement's worker idea,since they are in the 4 islands by the thousands if not more, so I dont really care.
The ban is not for Clarions, the ban is for fishing , still there are sports fishing boats all over the Revillagigedos( far enough from the navy).

Anyway, I should get myself a couple when these guys will be avileable next time,I wont do this effort for getting those kingis though.

When people who regulate for a living see attitudes like this I doubt they will have much sympathy for our hobby.

 

[photoblepharon]

Those were "blue passers"

And I'm Shaquille O'Neal!

 

[photoblepharon]

You need not worry about regulation. IMO, catching and selling a few high price fishes will not result in regulation. It is hysteria of people from loud mis-information that will result in regulation.

Okay, I'm sorry, but that is just nonsense.

The federal authorities step in and charge people when they "catch and sell a few high price fishes". Please don't try to downplay the significance of federal wildlife laws. Dick Perrin, Ammon Covino, Joe Russo, Steve Robinson, Craig Lightner, etc. These are the stories that reach a wider public audience. This is the type of behavior that will direct attention to our hobby and cause regulation.

The federal authorities and the public at large don't care about "loud" conversations on RC that you perceive as misinformation. There are lots of illegally obtained corals and fish in the trade. Anybody who is involved enough knows it, including Vili.

 

[OrionN]

They certainly paid for it (may or may not be enough) IMO. That does not change the regulation. Certainly if their behavior is grossly bad like a few years ago when some on documented the death of hundreds of yellow tangs at a middle man's tank. Things like that will cause problem for the hobby.
People broke the law will pay fine or prison for it. I shed no tear for them.

 

[OrionN]

........

The federal authorities and the public at large don't care about "loud" conversations on RC that you perceive as misinformation. There are lots of illegally obtained corals and fish in the trade. Anybody who is involved enough knows it, including Vili.

Loud misinformation like people use half bake pseudoscience or screwed data trying promote certain view and disregard information and data that would contradict their view of "truth". Beside ourselves, no one care about what we discuss here

 

[Vili_Shark]

Did he mention P. connelli in that list? I didn't think so. That might be more relevant to the discussion of illegal fish coming out of ZA.

Speaking of ego boosts, I am super impressed that you know 3 fish that are found in Madagascar <golf clap>

You are accusing of smuggled fish without having a proof, get a life.

So lame, got nothing to say to you anymore.

Go and read my posts.

 

[Vili_Shark]

Okay, I'm sorry, but that is just nonsense.

The federal authorities step in and charge people when they "catch and sell a few high price fishes". Please don't try to downplay the significance of federal wildlife laws. Dick Perrin, Ammon Covino, Joe Russo, Steve Robinson, Craig Lightner, etc. These are the stories that reach a wider public audience. This is the type of behavior that will direct attention to our hobby and cause regulation.

The federal authorities and the public at large don't care about "loud" conversations on RC that you perceive as misinformation. There are lots of illegally obtained corals and fish in the trade. Anybody who is involved enough knows it, including Vili.

Do you have a proof on the Kingii in this thread or not?

Do you?

Were these Kingii according to your information caught and shipped illegally?
Yes ?
No?

If the above answer is Yes , go a head and give everybody a proof.

If the answer is No.

I can't really write what I think about people like you.

 

[photoblepharon]

You're asking me to provide proof that a particular fish mentioned in this thread by an anonymous internet poster, whose location is unknown, was exported illegally? Sorry, I can't do that. I likewise can't prove that an individual Philippine blue tang at the local Petco was caught with cyanide, but that doesn't mean it never happens.

If you read carefully I never said the OPs fish was illegally collected. I said many of the kingis in the trade are illegally exported out of ZA. Is this really up for debate? You and I both know it's true, so why argue with it?