Are these flatworms or leeches crawling all over my Seahorses?!!

sugartooth

sugartooth

Reef bully
Please help ID:
I found these leechlike/flatworm like things crawling on my seahorses. Then I saw them ALL over the glass on the tank!!!
Should I freshwater dip and set up a completely new system? This tank is piped into a 75 setup.

Any help please.....:confused: :worried:
The first picture is the thing on the tail of the seahorse, very difficult to tell apart from the seahorse color. I've circled it:

122358Flatworm_or_leech_on_seahorse.JPG


Here is what it looks like on the glass:
122358mass_of_flatworms.JPG


Here it is in a pipette:

122358flatworm.JPG


HELP! I'm totally infested with these things.
 
How are they usually introduced? They are absolutely exploding all over, and crawling over the seahorses....no worries about them going into the gills and such?
 
Well, they're probably feasting on the yummy algae!
Many wrasse fish will rid your tank of the worm explosion and many IME are seahorse friendly. If you aren't opposed, I'd be happy to offer some suggestions.
I am also dealing with an algael bloom.
What are your system details out of curiosity..
 
Hi Poniegirl, thanks for your input. I feel a little better now, but still uneasy because there are so many of them.
A little bit about the tank:

3 Reidi seahorses currently in a 20L. I am having a custom 130 gallon tank built as a dedicated seahorse tank. However, the place I ordered from has taken well over 3 months to get it to me. So I am quite anxious to get these guys out of there and into their new tank, they are outgrowing it quickly.
The seahorses are approximately 10 months old. One male keeps having broods. (the one pictured in the other thread that I thought has ick)

If you look in my gallery, there are pictures of them a few months ago. They were mostly yellow and white, now they are just dark.
There is one mushroom and two gorgonians with them. Otherwise, it's algae, both macro and hair.
The tank is plumbed into a 75 gallon reef system. I am currently keeping the whole system at 72-74 degrees to accommodate the seahorses. The coral seem to be fine with it.

I would love to hear any suggestions you may have to offer! Do you think the flatworms will get into the gills of the seahorses?
I aspirated about 6 of them off of one horse alone.
 
Do these flatworms have some red on them?

THere is a species of flatworm that can become a problem in that they multiply rapidly and cover everything. Sometimes an infestation will go away on its own sometimes not.

If you do a search on red flatworm, you will come up with a number of threads on these guys. No fish reliably preys on these worms and the best cure seems to be Salifert Flatworm Exit.

Fred
 
Considering the number of worms in the tank (that are visible) the total population of them must be astounding. When these worms die off, they produce a nasty toxin that can kill a tank. The eXIT instructions state and restate the importance of removing the dead worms. If there is live rock in the system, the die-off will be next to impossible to syphon out. Not to mention the possible ammonia spike with that kind of die-off.
My next concern would be the shared plumbing for obvious reasons.
Thirdly, my LFS suggested I use eXIT for my bristleworms. He did show me proof that it can kill bristles, too, but couldn't confirm that my pod population would survive the treatment.
My first wrasse was a social fairy or Whip fin wrasse (or Pennant Fairy, depending on which site you are at). He was a worm eating machine (no exaggeration).
The wrasse I have now is a cigar wrasse and is the same about worms, though I would recommend a fairy before the cigar, hands down, as a tankmate. One word of caution, NO sixlines. Research carefully, there are many docile wrasse that would do well.
 
So Poniegirl, you would suggest a fairy wrasse to be put in with them?
I don't want to stress the seahorses if I can avoid it.

Fredfish- Yes! These worms are dark bodied, almost greenish grey colored and they have a bright red dot at the tip.

I siphoned off as many as I can see off the glass. I'm not sure what happened with this tank, because I haven't added anything physically into the seahorse side. I did get a unicorn tang recently, as well as some frags. I always dip my coral, so I'm not sure if these came from that and were just some survivors?

Are these flatworms going to cover the seahorses?
 
Okay, would this work?
If I get a wrasse (because I'm scared about using Flatworm exit and having my tank dump on me) and put him in the tank....
take out the seahorses and do a freshwater bath, put the seahorses in another separate tank......would that help me start over with these seahorses?

Also, would it be safe to use the tank water from the flatworm tank to help start the new one?
 
From your description, you have the pest flatworm. You can try a wrass, but it is not a guarantee of success. Some eat the flatworms, many do not.

Do not use your current water to seed the new tank as you will infect this tank with the same flatworms.

You may be fortunate and never have the flatworm population grow to plague proportions, but Flatworm Exit is your best choice for eliminating these guys.

Try a wrass first, and if that dosn't work, go for the flatworm exit. FWIW, Exit will be ok on your horses corals and other fish, but will be hard on some other inverts. If you treat with it, syphon out as many of the flatworms as you can before treatment.

There are very good descriptions of the treatment protocal in some of the flatworm threads here at RC.

Good luck.

Fred
 
Wow. To start a fresh tank is going to put you at least weeks out, what with cycling and all. And if you start a new, separate tank, I would not use ANYTHING from the old system.

You could set up a "Hospital Rubbermaid" to fresh dip. I would do this immediately, if the worms are covering the horses. Then perhaps put some of your tank water in the bucket after the freshwater dip. Heater, if needed, air hose. It won't be ideal, but the horses will be okay there for a while so you can deal with the tank they are in.

Yes, I can only speak from experience when I tell you that twice for me 1 wrasse = 0 worms. My wrasse have not bothered my horses at all. The more docile wrasse (fairys and cigars are the only species I have dealt with) make fine tankmates.
Please do google "WRASSE FISH FLATWORM", you will see it is not a magic trick or guess.

If your SH tank is plumbed with your DT, you can put the wrasse in the DT to continue the cleanup and for your peace of mind if you don't care for him as a tankmate. They are generally not large fish and will be okay with most fish if they have good aquascape to depend on.

I believe we all have these hitchhikers to some degree, though why for instance I end up with bristles and someone else aptasia and you flatworms, I have no clue.
 
With things like these flatworms and aptasia, I think its a combination of hit and miss, and the conditions in your tank.

This is yet another reason why we should have a quarantine tank and should be very careful who we trade live sand with.

I got two or three tiny aptasia with some live rock when I set up my tank. I immeditely nuked them with kalk paste and have had no problems, so I got lucky.

I had these flatworms before Flatworm Exit was available. In the year they were in my tank, they never became a problem. I had a few here and there, but nothing like many people experienced. I ended up tearing down the tank so I don't know if I would have eventually ended up with the same problem as everyone else.

Also, when I set up this tank in '92, I had these two really cool anemonies that I let get quite large. For two years, there were only two of them, then something changed and all h*** broke loose. I even knew they were Aptasia. :rolleyes:

Fred
 
been holding my tongue all day, but can't do it any longer. i will tell you i am very concerned that you are going to go out and purchase a wrasse and drop him in your tank without proper QT. i feel much better now. please do not skip QT because of the flatworms. my suggestion is to get some rigid airline, attach some tubing and siphon out as many as possible, as often as possible. work on lowering the organics in your tank. put some in a shallow container, take pictures, and post on an appropriate forum (i.e., here in disease and treatment or marine depot with dr. ron, calfo, jedlecki, or pro) and get an i.d. on them since the photos you posted are a little difficult to see. find out if they're the harmless ones or the parasitic ones and then go from there.

have you added anything to your tank within the past month or two? if so, what?
 
Hi Nano- I agree with you....and you make a very good point. I wasn't going to go out and buy a wrasse and drop him in, although it was a knee jerk reaction initially. It was going to be my second to last resort. I wanted to know what kind of wrasse would be best if it came down to it.

Our QT tank is currently being used to treat fish (from the 210), so I can't add anything until they are out of there.
I also posted in the Chicagoland Marine Society forum and found them to be flatworms. The majority of the posts confirm it's the kind you need to get rid of....
So, I went downstairs and got airline tubing and siphoned out every single one I could see. Then I did it again this morning, and tonight. I have a whole IO bucket full of them.
I wanted to post a picture, but frankly I'm very tired. Between that and the baby seahorse stuff that happened (1 survived the GFCI trip), I'm not motivated to post the pics.
I will continue to siphon them out as I see them, and try to figure out what I'm most comfortable doing next.

NanoLurker- In the past couple of months, I have added a small Unicorn tang (2 inches) and some frags in the main tank.
All coral gets dipped in Tropic Marine Pro Coral Cure, then shaken vigorously in bucket of tank water to rinse.
The unicorn tang, I am ashamed to admit, was not QT properly at home. All I did was make sure it was at the store for more than a couple of weeks and looking good.
These were added to the main tank. Nothing was physically added to the seahorse part since it was set up.
So far, the flatworms are seen in the seahorse tank, not the display.
I can't wait to get the custom tank so the seahorses don't have to share anymore. The tank was ordered almost 4 months ago, and it seems like it will never get here. Please know that this setup is less than ideal, and the best laid plans in my case just didn't work out properly.
Now I need to take corrective measures, and would like to find out the safest way to do so......



I also agree with Fredfish
 
okay - i feel much better now :) some flatworms are attracted to light so you could try keeping the lights off and the tank as dark as possible then light just a portion of it and see if they're attracted to it. if so, it will make siphoning them out a little easier.

i've been waiting over two weeks just for a quote for a new tank, two different place.....grrrrrrr........hope your new tank arrives soon.

on a side note cuz i'm too lazy to pop over to your other thread, did the "ichiness/pixie dustish" stuff you describe on your horse appear shortly after your last fish addition?

i know you're tired, get some sleep :)
 
not sure if anyone mentioned this but i recently read about them being supported by light also. think about it...they ussually collect high near the light or in high lighted areas with corals. in any case in high epidemic issues i would try reducing light time for a period as well as try other stuff. another thing to consider is that flatworms ussually stay in check but with nutrient explosion they grow/spread. nutrients come from excess food, excess stock, leaching filtration, sediment that collects, rotting fish/life, or from your water source. if your not familair look up what nutrients are in a saltwater tank. good luck
 
u could also use the vet pill stuff for parisites ( seen it here talkjed about) it kills them fast but i would remove seahorses and add after treatment. it works fast . you add it watch worms die and float to surface and thats it. happens in minutes. but i would remove seahorses to a hospital tank for this procees....imo. but do a search as i believe its reef safe to use . not sold for tanks but for our pets i believe...still safe and effective.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8500670#post8500670 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pledosophy
I would strongly discourage you from adding a wrasse to your 5g tank which currently holds three seahorses.
Click to expand...
Holy H... I did believe all tanks were quoted in gallon. I feel very foolish. :eek2:
 
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