ARID E18 reactor (Phosphate Control!!!)

[SantaMonica]

There is a small percentage of tanks, in saltwater only, and in reefs only, which have a bacterial balance which seems to grow only slime in scrubbers. Until a sufficient amount of this slime is removed, GHA and chaeto has trouble growing. FW seems to never have a problem. And FO also never seems to never have a problem (probably because of all the ammonia).

 

[maxxII]

It's been awhile since I've posted about my reactor and my experiences....

I've been running the ARID E18 since April 17th of this year, (6 months so far), and my Phosphate levels are constantly and consistently lower than I've ever experienced in the hobby.

In fact, they are too low.

I've actually had undetectable PO4 levels for several months and have lost frags and SPS because of it.

I tested my water again just an hour ago and got NO3 levels at 10ppm, (Salifert) and PO4 levels at 0.00 ppm, (Hanna 96713 Photometer).

My system is approximately 140 gallons and consists of two display tanks, (40 breeder containing two 8-10 inch in diameter H.magnifica anemones, a pair of Darwin Black Occellaris clowns, a small yellow tang and a Doliatus Rabbitfish. This tank had my sps frags in it, but now just contains 2 different types of montipora which are unhappy but hanging on. The other display is a 58 gallon tank containing a 10-12 inch diameter H.magnifica anemone, a mated pair of Rod's Onyx Percula clownfish, a small Blue Line Angelfish, a small Tomini Tang, a 5-6 inch diameter H.crispa anemone, and a few LPS and softies and a large 12 inch Derasa clam.)

I originally had issues with Green Hair Algae, (GHA) and green cyanobacteria.

Both are gone now.

I did have an infestation of GHA in the reactor oddly enough. It contaminated the chaeto and I wound up pitching the whole mess. I initially tried to pull out the GHA from the Chaeto thinking the Chaeto would out compete the GHA and starve it out. This proved not to be the case. At this point, I can only assume GHA outcompetes chaeto in my system. I was never able to completely eradicate the GHA until I pitched the whole mess and scrubbed out the reactor. I used a toothbrush to remove as much as possible, and a green scrubby pad to clean out the inside of the cylinder itself.

I then ran the whole reactor with straight vinegar in a bucket for 3 days which killed off any remaining GHA.

I upped my feedings to increase my nutrient load in the system, and everything got fat...including my H.magnifica anemones. Prior to this, I was able to keep them very small by targeted feedings, like between 6-7 inches in diameter small. They've since increased to the sizes listed above.

In addition to getting fish fat and making my anemones larger, I was able to see a short increase in PO4 up to 0.01 ppm, but only for a day.

Throughout all of this, I've been steadily reducing my photo period from the 18 hours a day I started with, down to 6 hours a day before running the reactor with vineger. The idea being that less lighting means less algae growth, means less PO4 uptake....


I'm now down to 4 hours of light per 24 hour period, and Chaeto is still growing. It's been 20 days since I cleaned out the reactor and added new chaeto, (without GHA). I've been running 4 hours of light per day since then and chaeto has still trippled in size.

I emailed Tristan regarding this and he immediately asked if I was using any other form of filtration.

I'm currently running an oversized skimmer for my system.

It started out as a Reef Octopus XS250 Extreme skimmer which was rated for a 250 gallon system, (which is what I used to have), but the Sicce PSK pumps proved to be unreliable at start up so I replaced them with a Bubble Blaster 5000 pump which basically turned the skimmer into a Super Reef Octopus 5000 internal which is rated for much larger systems.

Regardless, it pulls alot out of the aquarium.

Tristan stated he'd never run lighting on Chaeto for less than 8 hours straight and that they'd typically been conservative on their ratings for their ARID reactors. He recommended shutting off the skimmer and seeing what happened with that.

I've been trying to move slowly on this and only change one thing at a time since I want to know exactly what is causing the changes in my system.

It sucks that I've lost most of my SPS frags, but I'd rather get this all dialed in before I move everything over to the 120.

So I'm off to shut down my skimmer, (Something I never thought I'd ever be doing in a reef tank) and I'll clean it out and pull it from the sump.

I'll keep updates coming as they occur. Hopefully, pulling the skimmer will result in an increase in PO4, (another thing I never thought I'd be trying to do...raise my phosphates in my reef tank).

I do want to be clear....I'm not unhappy with the ARID reactor, it's doing exactly what I wanted and needed it to do....it's just doing it too well right now.

I'm confident I can get it dialed in and get this resolved.

 

[clorox]

This is very interesting and useful info. I am in the process of ordering a C24 from Tristan.
For what I gather reading threads about the ARID is that it needs to be dialed in. It seems to me that the key is finding a balanced ratio between dissolved nutrients and quantity of cheato and prunings.

 

[trueperc]

Thanks MaxxII for the update, its funny even with Tristan stating "conservative on their ratings for their ARID reactors" I am really wondering about the sizing especially if running a skimmer. Like ATS oversize really seems to be not a good thing, just like way to big of skimmer can be an issue. I am wanting one, but really thinking about ordering a much smaller unit that recommended for my size to tank.

 

[maxxII]

Thanks MaxxII for the update, its funny even with Tristan stating "conservative on their ratings for their ARID reactors" I am really wondering about the sizing especially if running a skimmer. Like ATS oversize really seems to be not a good thing, just like way to big of skimmer can be an issue. I am wanting one, but really thinking about ordering a much smaller unit that recommended for my size to tank.

I think there are more factors involved than just "I have a 150 gallon system, I need to be running an ARID E18"

Obviously, tank inhabitants play an important role as well.

I'm pretty sure I will get this figured out. However, my situation is a little more difficult because I'm space limited and keeping not one, but three large species of anemone in my system.

Without the anemones, I wouldnt have had an issue with feeding more. I could keep dumping in food until I hit my desired phosphate levels. Clean up crew would get nice and fat and I could get wall to wall nassarius snails and cerith snails to take care of the stuff the fish didnt eat.

I've traditionally run BB systems, had a small fish population, and run an oversized skimmer. Adding the ARID reactor to the mix changes things significantly. I'm in the process of adding more fish to the mix and feeding more heavily. Hopefully, pulling the skimmer will change things enough to have detectable phosphates in the near future.

 

[SantaMonica]

You will typically find that gha out-competes chaeto, like it did with yours. And that was without rapid air/water interface turbulence, or strong light. That's the main reason gha scrubbers have the photosynthesis pulling power they do, and thus can be made to be like a smaller magnet, but just as much pulling power.

Chaeto certainly still has it uses though.

 

[JB NY]

Pax-bellum recommends not running a skimmer once the ARID is up and running.

 

[maxxII]

You will typically find that gha out-competes chaeto, like it did with yours. And that was without rapid air/water interface turbulence, or strong light. That's the main reason gha scrubbers have the photosynthesis pulling power they do, and thus can be made to be like a smaller magnet, but just as much pulling power.

Chaeto certainly still has it uses though.

The LFS pays me store credit to bring them chaeto....cant get anyone to pay me for GHA.

I honestly did not realize that GHA would out compete chaeto...I had always heard the opposite.

Obviously, I heard wrong...

 

[maxxII]

Pax-bellum recommends not running a skimmer once the ARID is up and running.

Tristan recommended that I go with the E24 if I was going skimmerless, and stated the E18 would fine if I was using a skimmer.

Re-reading our email conversation, I did neglect to mention that I was using a skimmer set up for a system more than 3x the size of mine....


Are you still running your skimmer Joe?

 

[JB NY]

I still am.

 

[maxxII]

Have you changed your photo period any or is it still around 12-14 hours?

 

[JB NY]

I am running at 14 hours of light.

 

[BfishLpond78]

I'm curious to know the amount of Chaeto is being grown with these units? What takes care of the dissolved inorganics in the water?

My current setup yields me 5-6 gallons of Chaeto a month. Now before people flame me for trying to derail a thread. I'm totally onboard with the use of their type of lighting approach, love the design and what I've seen. I do know someone who is having the worst luck with trying to grow Chaeto in these reactors. I'm curious what factors could inhibit Chaeto growth. He has large systems and PLENTY of NO3/PO4, so nutrients are not an issue.

 

[JB NY]

I know who you are talking about. I don't know why he is having trouble growing chaeto.

As for me I was growing an awful lot and then over the summer it slowed down dramatically, I still open the unit up every 10 days and clean it and rinse the chaeto but I have not harvested any and it is only growing a little more each time I take a look. But my P and N numbers are stil very low so I am fine with what has happened.

 

[BfishLpond78]

I know who you are talking about. I don't know why he is having trouble growing chaeto.

As for me I was growing an awful lot and then over the summer it slowed down dramatically, I still open the unit up every 10 days and clean it and rinse the chaeto but I have not harvested any and it is only growing a little more each time I take a look. But my P and N numbers are stil very low so I am fine with what has happened.

Lol...I didn't notice your location till now, so I guess you do know who i'm talking about. I've been his chaeto supplier for these reactors.

I figured since this thread is mainly about growing chaeto I'd try and learn what factors inhibit growth, could your nutrients be too high?

 

[JB NY]

I really don't know why it happens on some systems. I absolutely don't think my system has high nutrients.

 

[SantaMonica]

I think it's a particular bacterial combination on a rare number of tanks. It's only on reef tanks, and only on well established ones. And only 1 percent of those.

They still grow, but they grow dark slime which does not attach well.

 

[maxxII]

Lol...I didn't notice your location till now, so I guess you do know who i'm talking about. I've been his chaeto supplier for these reactors.

I figured since this thread is mainly about growing chaeto I'd try and learn what factors inhibit growth, could your nutrients be too high?

The only things I've experianced which will stall or inhibit chaeto growth are magnesium levels above 1500 ppm, and Green Hair Algae in the reactor.

GHA in the tank didnt affect chaeto growth in the reactor, but it did stop it inside the reactor.


What's your buddy's magnesium level?

Additionally low Boron levels can slow growth down...

 

[maxxII]

It's been 7 days without my skimmer on my system.
In addition to removing my skimmer, I restarted my calcium reactor as well.
I didnt need it previously and kalk was keep up with my minuscule calcium demands. I restarted it thinking the dissolving calcium reactor media would add PO4 to my system.

Here are current tank parameters:

DKH - 8.0
Ca - 370 ppm
Mg - 1365 ppm
NO3 - 5 ppm
PO4 - 0.00 ppm

All tests except PO4 were by Salifert. PO4 tested by Hanna 96713 Photometer.

Photo period for the ARID E18 is still 4 hours per day.

Plan B was to remove the skimmer and start the Calcium Reactor while maintaining heavy (for me) feedings of Nori, various frozen foods, and supplementing with flake food.

Obviously, it has not worked.

On to plan C.

The ARID E18 is being fed by a MaxiJet 900 and after testing, I determined the effluent rate to be 72 gallons per hour.

(50/Fifty seconds to fill a one gallon jug full of effluent water from reactor. 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour = 3600 seconds in an hour. 3600 divided by 50 = 72)
I'm showing my math so that any errors I made can be corrected. I'm not a Rocket Surgeon and math was never a strong point of mine.

I added a mini ball valve to the feed tubing and reduced the flow rate down to 30 gallons per hour.

(Two/2 minutes to fill a one gallon jug with effluent. Simple math here, 60 minutes divided by 2 = 30 gph)

So, we'll see what happens here.

I'm not sure what level I can reduce the flow rate through before it becomes a problem for the chaeto. I'll email Tristan at Pax-Bellum and ask him.

Plan D is to reduce the amount of Chaeto I grow from 2 chambers, down to 1 chamber of the reactor.

 

[JB NY]

Personally I do not think that 0.00 PO4 will hurt you, there is very little phosphate in the reef. Obviously there is trace amounts or nothing would be growing but I would look at other things for problems with the corals.

A lot of times when you clean up the water quality dramatically the corals can suffer short term as the try an acclimate to the new conditions in the tank. I think that might be what is happening.